Quote from Daedelus :

Pajeros, Landcruisers, Nissan Patrols, Land Rover Defenders(despite the frequent break-downs). Real off-roaders, and potentially really good off-road racers. However, the faster, Dakar-style cars won't work. A big course like that won't work in LFS. Whay might work for all concerned is a course on sand, like used by the bored people of Alice Springs. A desert rally circuit that's been left for a few years, bit of red dust, screaming diesel engines. Perfect.

Any 4x4 car can be fun only if you are planning to do some rock crawling or serious (slow speed) offroading. Other than that they can do straight lines at slow speeds. Cars like the Porsche Cayenne can do some offroading but would you really want to take a 100k€ car to muddy offroading?

To be honest, SUVs and slow&big 4x4 jeeps and etc. are one of the stupidest ideas for a racing sim. 4x4 cars built for racing are different thing but some standard "Pajeros, Landcruisers, Nissan Patrols, Land Rover Defenders" make as good as rallycars as tennis balls.

Why? Very high center of gravity, underpowered, ultra soft suspension... I mean, I really tried to come up with at least one good reason why to have them in LFS, but... Screamer 4x4 shows pretty well what you can do with such cars and what not.

Quote from keltern :

doesn't look like he's tried S1.. xD


on topic, and i guess it has been mentioned a couple of times:

mid 1980's Formula 1 Turbo! now THAT is F1! we need competition to the BF1 people!

imagine, 1500cc on 4 cylinders, 4-6 bar turbopressure = 850++ bhp @ 10500 RPM!(!) and since LFS has connection with BMW already(?), why not try to get hold of blueprints of the BMW M12/13 TC powered car?

AFAIK, some team have built engine with a peak power up to 1500bhp.
And I do think the engine were 1,5L 6 cylinders.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Any 4x4 car can be fun only if you are planning to do some rock crawling or serious (slow speed) offroading. Other than that they can do straight lines at slow speeds. Cars like the Porsche Cayenne can do some offroading but would you really want to take a 100k€ car to muddy offroading?

To be honest, SUVs and slow&big 4x4 jeeps and etc. are one of the stupidest ideas for a racing sim. 4x4 cars built for racing are different thing but some standard "Pajeros, Landcruisers, Nissan Patrols, Land Rover Defenders" make as good as rallycars as tennis balls.

Why? Very high center of gravity, underpowered, ultra soft suspension... I mean, I really tried to come up with at least one good reason why to have them in LFS, but... Screamer 4x4 shows pretty well what you can do with such cars and what not.

A word of advice: go google search for Geoff Pickering's Pajero aka multitime class seven (minmially modified production cars) champion. I won't call a 300+hp, almost 2 tonne Pajero running at 200+kph on the Aussie red dust slow if I were you.

Group 7 cars are basically your production vehicles put through the usual racing mods. Stripped interiors, roll cages and some limited engine and suspension mods (mostly springs and dampers, bushings, etc). The suspension geometry must NOT be altered in any drastic way. And the winning Pajero I was talking about used slightly uprated springs front, OEM rate (but higher quality) springs rear and the usual donner shocks you'll expect a rally Pajero to have. The fronts used the same single shock layout as OEM, but the rears had some limited mods. The rears were double shocked by adding an extra shock mount to each of the rear multilink lower arms and the body's shock mounts. As for the engine, no turbochargers or any forced induction was used. Just a straight through exhaust, race cams, upgraded fuel pumps injectors and so on, no internal mods were allowed under that production class category. What's amazing is that the gearbox was stock and has so far only failed once.

Try doing the dakar rally with ANY of the existing LFS cars. No matter how you set them up, you'll be lucky to finish 10% of the rally raid. 4WDs are for people who understand that the earth is not flat (and have really important things to worry about such as saving stranded, injured and starving people stuck in the outback).

Quote from Jamexing :

(and have really important things to worry about such as saving stranded, injured and starving people stuck in the outback).

Quote from Stew2000 :

http://www.pictures-of-cars.com/image/img_000141A.jpg

Try surviving 10 minutes of outback corugations with that with a guy with multiple compound fractures in that car (if you could somehow fit him in, stretcher and all).

Better yet, try convincing the outback emergency services to replace their 75 series Landcruisers with that. illepall

Subaru stationwagons don't make good outback touring machines for trails with ANY level of real challenge. Lack of clearance, lack of suspension travel, lack of full size spare, less than rugged underbody, lack of real luggage space, lack of suitable wheels and tires and just general lack of practicality. And try fording that 500mm deep stream with that.

I think the joke was that that IS an Outback..."Oh no, I've locked myself in! No food, no water and I've got multiple injuries!"...but your point is valid none the less. 75 Series for the win. My 80 Series shortly thereafter :P

Quote from Daedelus :

I think the joke was that that IS an Outback..."Oh no, I've locked myself in! No food, no water and I've got multiple injuries!"...but your point is valid none the less. 75 Series for the win. My 80 Series shortly thereafter :P

haha. you got the joke then

espace f1
image
image

Quote from Daedelus :

I think the joke was that that IS an Outback..."Oh no, I've locked myself in! No food, no water and I've got multiple injuries!"...but your point is valid none the less. 75 Series for the win. My 80 Series shortly thereafter :P

Anyway, I'm just sick and tired of so many people I see so often with horribly malinformed opinions about 4WDs such as Mitsubishi Pajeros, Nissan Patrols, Toyota Landcruisers etc. They should really get off the tarmac, stop sniffing petrol fumes and enjoy some of natures goodness with a 4WD.

Anyway, I meant outback as in Australian outback. Nice joke though, and it also goes to show that stationwagons are a silly substitute for real 4WDs. Subaru wagons were never known for decent trunk space anyway.

These are changes to the current cars as well as new cars, but this how it would work better with GTR cars IMO.

FXO GTR

3L V6, same power output.
Everything else the same

RB4 GTR

2L Supercharged straight 4. Same power output as FXR.

FZ5 GTR

A bit more power

RAC GTR
LX6 GTR

This is a GTR splitting idea, but it would be better than the current system.

Quote from duke_toaster :

These are changes to the current cars as well as new cars, but this how it would work better with GTR cars IMO.

FXO GTR

3L V6, same power output.
Everything else the same

RB4 GTR

2L Supercharged straight 4. Same power output as FXR.

FZ5 GTR

A bit more power

RAC GTR
LX6 GTR

This is a GTR splitting idea, but it would be better than the current system.

Seriously, WHY does the FZR need ay more power and more speed? it's already ridiculously fast for its class. The GTR class is currently just as ridiculously unbalanced as the TBO class, so there's simply no good logic in this, unless you're planning to speed up the other cars somehow to compensate.

And I don't see the point of having TWO 4WD GTR. The RAC GTR is a great idea since LFS completely lacks Mid-engined race cars which ironically are the dominant cars in so many forms of mototsport.

And forget the LX6. Get the LX8, give it 350hp, 700kg of weight, wide slicks and an aero package to match.

Quote from Jamexing :

Seriously, WHY does the FZR need ay more power and more speed? it's already ridiculously fast for its class. The GTR class is currently just as ridiculously unbalanced as the TBO class, so there's simply no good logic in this, unless you're planning to speed up the other cars somehow to compensate.

And I don't see the point of having TWO 4WD GTR. The RAC GTR is a great idea since LFS completely lacks Mid-engined race cars which ironically are the dominant cars in so many forms of mototsport.

And forget the LX6. Get the LX8, give it 350hp, 700kg of weight, wide slicks and an aero package to match.

Did you ACTUALLY read the post? I said split the GTR class in to GTR1 (RAR, LX(6)R, FZR) and GTR2 (FXR, XRR, RBR).

The two 4WD GTRS are different, 1 is NA and the other is Supercharged

Quote from duke_toaster :

The two 4WD GTRS are different, 1 is NA and the other is Supercharged

Yes, contrary to popular belief, I DO READ and UNDERSTAND posts. I knew you implied some sort of split, but you weren't too clear about it (aka didn't bother to specify the name and members of each separate class).

Why bother with 2 cars with only the availability of forced induction as a differentiator? Supercharging isn't so poplular in circuit and rally racing for various reasons. Although a direct cupling or even a variable ratio coupled supercharger seems to be a great idea, all those gears and belts and the space and complexity and weight of the whole package make it less than brilliant. You're better off with variable turbine geometry turbos.

Anyway, it simply makes things more unnecessarily complicated in LFS.

I guess in the next physics patch TBO and GTR will be quite well balanced (see UFR and XFR, just a brillant balance!!!). No chance to see the engine modified like this (FXO GTR with a NA engine illepall??).
And let us have a RWD with slick tires without downforce, LX8 GTR should be alone with its own class (no chance to have a fair competitor to such light cars (LX4-LX6))

Quote from Xalies :

How about cars based on these two aussie V8's .... that would be sweet

http://www.oceanicracingteam.com/Holden.jpg
VEHICLE: Holden Racing Team Holden VZ
(Something like a VZ-GTS for live for speed)
ENGINE: Holden Motorsport 5.0 litre fuel injected V8.
POWER (EST): 620 + BHP at 7,500 RPM
GEARBOX: 6-speed
DIFFERENTIAL: Motive 9”
SUSPENSION: Front: Holden Racing Team developed – Double wishbone designed for racing with adjustable camber. Cockpit
adjustable front roll bar
SUSPENSION: Rear: Holden Racing Team developed - Location by fourlink parallel arms and Watts link. Cockpit adjustable
rear anti roll bar.
DAMPERS: Penske coil over shock absorbers, also 4-way adjustable gas filled.
BRAKES: Four wheel ventilated discs: 375mm front; 340mm rear. Alcon 6-piston front calipers and 4-piston rear. Cockpit adjustable front to rear bias
WHEELS: O.Z wheels 17 inch by 11-inch magnesium alloy
FUEL CAPACITY: 120Litre capacity with safety bladder.
Siamese dry brake refuelling system: 5.5 MPG
VEHICLE WEIGHT: 1355kg
TOP SPEED: 298kph (185mph), 0-100kph: 4.0 seconds

http://www.oceanicracingteam.com/ford.jpg

VEHICLE: Stone Brothers Racing Ford BA Falcon
(Maybe call it a XB-GT)
ENGINE: Stone Brothers Racing developed 5.0 litre V8 Ford
with SVO cylinder iron block and aluminium heads.
Category control MoTec engine management control system.
POWER (EST): 620 + BHP & 455 ft lbs torque.
Limited to maximum 7,500 RPM & 10:1 compression ratio
GEARBOX: 6-speed Holinger gearbox - Australian made
DIFFERENTIAL: Ford 9 inch crownwheel and pinion.
Ratio per regulations and circuits 3:7, 3:5, 3:25.
SUSPENSION: Front: Stone Brothers Racing developed double wishbone suspension with adjustable damper and cockpit adjustable
front anti roll bar.
SUSPENSION: Rear: Stone Brothers Racing 4 link rear suspension with adjustable watts link, coil over adjustable rear dampers with cockpit
adjustable rear anti roll bar.
BRAKES: Front: Brembo Monobloc 6 piston calipers, Brembo Disc 360 by 35mm
BRAKES: Rear: Brembo Monobloc 4 piston calipers, Brembo Disc 330 by 28mm
WHEELS: O.Z wheels 17 inch by 12 inch
FUEL CAPACITY: 120L
VEHICLE WEIGHT: 1355kg
TOP SPEED: 298kph (185mph), 0-100kph: 4.0 seconds

LFS needs a couple V8 Supercar like cars. Would be by far the most popular cars

Ohh and G-Karts!

Karts, rally cars and V8 Supercars. Oh, hell yes :up:
Imagine 20 V8s thundering around Aston Historic...

I'm not so keen on the "exclusive V8s" race. I liked it best when it was a true contest of ideas, the V8s, the turbo 4s and 6s, the rotaries and other oddments all thrown into the one race...

And, if we are to have a Falcon in the game, make it look like the AU, not the BA. The AU looked the peice, the BA is too conservative, and the road car V8 is a bit...Toothless?

Why SUV's? What's the point...go play Need for Speed. I'd like to see Prototype tin tops, oval racing cars, a formula ford/vee, old style beetle to compete with UF100. That's all that comes to mind right now...would really like the formula ford and prototypes though.

SUV's like the X5 can be good for an off road, maybe Dakar style rally. (duh)

not really, X5 etc are "Soft Roaders", designed for posing on the road more than Dune Bashing!

Quote from Jakg :

not really, X5 etc are "Soft Roaders", designed for posing on the road more than Dune Bashing!

imo the X3 is the soft roader and X5 is the off roader. it's just a shame ppl drive it on the road to take kids to school.

I wouldn't take a luxury car like a X3 off road - real men drive Land Rover Defenders (for offroad purposes, that is)!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi ... x-Land_Rover_Defender.jpg

Quote from duke_toaster :

I wouldn't take a luxury car like a X3 off road - real men drive Land Rover Defenders (for offroad purposes, that is)!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi ... x-Land_Rover_Defender.jpg

yes the Defender is the best off roader (even with a snorkel :P)
but I like the X5
If soft-roaders do make it in, then I would like to see the Subaru Baja

Cars such as this http://nerv.org.uk/photos/cars/lemans.jpg

and formula vee http://www.fmracing.com/images/before.jpg

Quote from Stew2000 :

imo the X3 is the soft roader and X5 is the off roader. it's just a shame ppl drive it on the road to take kids to school.

actually from off road tests the X5 was a piece off poo

The Defender is a true off roader