Here is the other video review of the G25 (best one so far imo)

http://59.186.253.11/movie/g25review.wmv

Danowat, you might want to add it to your first post

Quote from bbman :

Anybody that already got his G25: Can you give me some measurements of the shifter (What are WxBxH of the part of the shifter that actually lies on the desk? How steep is the back rising? and so on)... I might have to extend my desk, so I have to figure out where while keeping a comfortable driving position...

When viewed from the side with the shifter mounted on the desk/table: distance from edge of mounting surface (desk/table) to the furthest back edge of the case (Button Panel) is 172 mm. Distance from the edge of the mounting surface to the front of the shifter is 90 mm (therefore, the overall length of the shifter is 262 mm). Maximum height from the mounting surface (top of desk/table) to the top edge of the case (Button Panel) is 118 mm (this is maximum height of the shifter also). Maximum width of the shifter is 140 mm.

Note: the "mounting templets" for G25 were posted on the Race Sim Central site by "Goo". The shifter templet has a side view on it that could be "scaled up" using the above numbers.

Hope this helps.

Quote from Rtsbasic :

Sounds good, thanks for the pic and writeup.

Have you ever used the ACT Labs shifter? Wondering how it compares in feel to others on the market.

I owned the ACT Labs shifter, but sold it on Ebay. I actually did think it was a good shifter, I just didn't like some parts about it. For one the throw of the Act Labs shifter is a lot larger, and the gates were a bit deep so that you kind of had to be "casual" when using the GPL shifter. Being fast with the GPL shifter... well it was possible, but I just found it to be a bit strange. On top of that, the shifter came with a long metal bracket that looked like a ruler, and you clamp it on with a small vice grip included illepall. Hah, when I actually got the GPL shifter shipped to me, I thought I had left a vice grip out on my bed.... because I had one almost just like the one they gave me. So I was confused "how it got there" lol. But I later found out (to my dissapointment), that the shifter was clamped on with such a poor design. But the new one I never owned, and that has a new clamp system and better internals parts.

But both the GPL shifter and G25 shifter have good and bad points. Still, the G25 shifter is simple and quite good. I like the fact that they are short throws, has the boot (boot was for GPL shifter too, but sold out), and the the gates are pretty easy to feel with the G25 shifter. The only thing I wish it had just a "little" bit more of is some stronger tension, and a stronger "click & hold" when in a particular gate. But this doesn't mean the shifter is troublesome... once you get used to how it functions, it is a breeze to use (was like that with GPL shifter too). Though, the only part I have to get used to is the fact that you have 6 gear slots, and the push-down reverse is a bit chaotic when you are anxious and trying to be fast (like after a spin and trying to get back on track from a mistake). Also the push down feature kind of makes the shifter & knob have a springy vertical feel, which kind of takes some getting used to. It does want to go down even when in sequential mode. But you aren't pushing down on the stick when in sequential, so that doesn't matter. That is important too, most people need to know how-to hold this shifter correctly or they will complain probably. Whereas the GPL shifter is a straight shaft and just solid, so you don't have the springy vertical feel. But this doesn't make the G25 shifter impossible or annoying, you just have to use it properly.

Honestly though, I only use the shifter for enjoyment and realism for changing gears (like from 6th to 3rd). But I mostly always use paddles when I am racing seriously. The whole reason why I sold my Act Labs shifter was because it was hardly ever used (was in great condition) because it was just for entertainment. The G25 shifter is at least still there as an option, with a huge amount of other options available... that is what is so great about the G25... it has a complete package that lets you choose various configurations, and I like that. I never thought I'd have a handbrake for rallycross, and pulling back the sequential stick is perfect for that

Quote from mostflyskaterboy :

except for the fact of few buttons

Doesn't bother me. Probably a sticking point some folks, but I guess that just means there's an aftermarket opportunity there.

Quote from silver bullet :

Im waiting at least two months until you all try it out, and confirm my belief that G25 is nothing but a souped up DFP.

I'm sure by now you suspect this isn't true, but I can confirm it. I've been using it for several days (and losing sleep and showing up late to work because of it) and have done direct usage comparisons with the DFP. The G25 is head and shoulders a better wheel than the DFP.

For starters, it's a lot more precise. A Logitech guy on the RSC told us why, "the G25 is much more precise than DFP. DFP has three sets of gears between the optical encoder and the wheel. This means that the system must 'take up' the slack (backlash) in three places before the encoder starts to move. G25 has only one set of gears between the encoder disk and the wheel and uses a 'anti-backlash' gear to remove the space between those two gears. This means that when the wheel rotates the encoder rotates at exactly the same time."

The G25 is also running at 4 times the samping rate, "G25 is a full-speed USB device reporting at 500hz (as opposed to the DFP, which is low speed and reports at 125hz)."

However, the biggest difference to me is the turn speed. There is much less internal resistance to turning, you can whip the wheel around super fast without that 'pushing it through molassus' feeling you got with the DFP. In fact, the wheel will turn itself (via FF) like 3x faster than the DFP ever did, so letting the car automatically countersteer happens realistically fast with this wheel. It's feels much more like driving a real car.

After spending a day or two doing autocross with the G25, I hooked up the DFP (trying to isolate an issue on my computer) and was shocked. A slalom that I had been doing over and over again with the G25 was suddenly was difficult... and noisy... with the DFP motors whining in protest as I tried to whip it around the same way I did the G25.

Piddy summed it up a few days ago on RSC, "Compared to the DFP, the best part of the G25 is the FF and precision of the wheel. I can make and feel smaller adjustments to the steering. When larger corrections are required, there is far less internal resistance so throwing the wheel from side to side is easier and more rewarding."

Also, after using the G25, the DFP's pedals feel very spongy and imprecise. I loved my DFP, but using the G25 has proved very eye opening. I'm aware of flaws in the DFP now that I didn't see before.

I received my G25 last night and was able to try it out for about three hours using LFS. I know a lot of people are eagerly awaiting this wheel so I figured I'd post my initial impressions after a night of heavy use.

The first thing that gives you an impression is that the box seems smaller than you'd think and is a lot heavier than you'd think. Even though there's a third pedal and a shifter in there, it's not much bigger than the DFP box. My listed shipping weight was over 20lbs, so it's no lightweight either.

After unpacking the box and hooking everything up I came to a few conclusions. They made a very good decision by having the cables all plug in to a recessed portion of the wheel. No more problems with the power cord disconnecting in the middle of a race. Unfortunately, they also made a mistake with the wiring in that the wire to connect the pedals to the wheel is much too short. I should have measured the actual length before writing this review, but suffice it to say that the cord is barely long enough to reach and it quite often ends up in the way of my right foot when driving. I'm most likely going to have to make an extension cable using radio shack parts. This mistake is almost unforgiveable to me.

I uninstalled the old Wingman software and installed the new v.5 that comes with the G25. I left the Wingman software at 100% forces, but turned off the "extra" unnecessary forces and unchecked "combined pedals" (God only knows why this is checked as default). I plugged in the wheel and made sure it worked in the control panel applet, then opened LFS and set it up in game. Setup was quite easy. The throttle, brake, and clutch were setup correctly out of the box (I was using a DFP before, so this is probably why). I just had to configure the shifter and other buttons since they do not correspond to the ones on the DFP which I was using before. Make sure that when you try to setup LFS you choose "shifter" in the options. If you currently have a wheel you most likely have "sequential" selected.

Once I had a chance to use it in game I came away with several impressions of the device. First and foremost, this wheel is far and away better than the DFP. The circumference of the wheel itself is so much larger that it feels much more real in your hands. The wheel itself has less girth than the DFP which also makes it feel more realistic and less like a playstation controller. In addition, the leather on the wheel is very comfortable and looks great. However; after long driving sessions you may find that the stitching rubs your thumbs a bit raw. The wheel itself feels much more solid than the one on the DFP with less "play" in the steering and an overall heftier feel. Not to mention that the force feedback is superb. This is, bar none, the best force feedback wheel I've ever used and I prefer it to my friend's ECCI non-FF wheel. The forces are smooth and consistent and there's no "notchy" feeling that you get when you turn the DFP more than 90* or so. There's much less gear noise than you get with the DFP, but that's not to say the wheel is silent. The FF still generates noise which reverberates through your desk (or, at least, my desk). So, while it is quieter, don't expect it to be whisper quiet like an arcade machine driving wheel.

The pedals look and feel very nice. The metal finish adds a lot to the presentation and the base of the pedals is very hefty and sturdy. I get the impression that these pedals will last much longer and take much more abuse than anything else out there, save for the high-end stuff companies like ECCI and BRD make. The pedals are much stiffer than the previous stuff that logitech has released. The brake pedal in particular has a very satisfying heavy resistance which should make it easier to prevent locking up the brakes unintentionally. I do have a complaint about the pedals though. The gas and brake are too far apart, and the clutch and brake are too close together. I'm not sure who designed this, but they've got their dimensions all wrong. Because I now have a complete setup (clutch and H-shifter) I turned off all the aids in LFS. No more auto clutch, no more auto blip. With these aids off it is necessary to heel-toe the throttle and brake to get smooth downshifts. Doing this on the G25s pedals is difficult at best. Doing it without shoes on, which is the way I normally drive sims, can be downright painful. I have full intentions of removing the pedal pads and moving them so that the gas and brake are closer together. In addition, I may end up having to drive with shoes on because the edges of the pedals can be somewhat sharp and painful after a few hours of use. In fact, a friend of mine who also got his G25 had to finally stop driving last night because his feet hurt so badly. YMMV, of course.

Now, on to the shifter. The H-shifter included with this wheel was the thing I was most looking forward to and, it figures, the thing I'm most disappointed with. It's a nice looking unit which mounts very solidly to the desk. Unfortunately, the way in which it mounts places it very high and far away. The shift lever itself ends up at about the same height as the one on the DFP. Not a problem in sequential mode, but it can be difficult to handle in H-mode. The majority of the buttons for the G25 are on the shifter base and they are placed behind the shift lever itself (furthest away from you). This makes reaching the top buttons and hat a stretch, and makes hitting the bottom buttons difficult because they're blocked by the shifter. Also, the shifter itself leaves a lot to be desired. Gear engagements make a satisfying click, but the lever is so short, the gates are so close, and the springs are soft enough that mis-shifts were common for me. I definitely think that the shifter would benefit from being an inch or two longer and having a much heavier spring. I lost count of the number of times I downshifted from 5th to 2nd last night. Perhaps this would be less of an issue if the shifter were mounted lower in a more natural position, but without building a custom mounting spot I won't be able to test this theory. I think that the shifter assembly would have been a much better unit if it a) mounted lower b) had a longer shift lever c) had stiffer springs and d) had the buttons mounted behind the shifter instead of in front of it (closer to the driver).

All in all, the G25 is a huge improvement over the DFP. The wheel itself is far and away better and really can't even be compared other than the fact that they're made by the same company and both support 900* rotation. However; I feel that the shifter and pedals leave a lot to be desired. I had high hopes for this piece of equipment and now will end up disassembling much of it to see if I can fix the things that I'm not pleased with. This is of course all personal opinion based on my own experiece (and that of a friend) and you may have a different experience. But I do think that I've given a fair and honest review. If anyone has any questions about the wheel or accessories I'd be happy to try to answer them.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

However; I feel that the shifter and pedals leave a lot to be desired. I had high hopes for this piece of equipment and now will end up disassembling much of it to see if I can fix the things that I'm not pleased with.

You aren't pleased with the pedals????????? What is there to dislike about them? They are best Logitech ones I've ever tried, and almost just like my spring modded red MOMO pedals. Plus they have a bigger footing and smooth surface so it makes using socks 10x better. Can do heel-toe just fine too. And if you want it like the "cheat" heel-toe where the pedals are extremely close together... well that is tough, I've never driven a car that has pedals only an inch apart. It's not Side-of-Foot-Toe, use your heel!

Though the shifter is strange at first, you need to get used to it. Using it for only a day must mean you are shifting like a noob (sorry, but friend used his first day and can't stop complaining that misshifts are the shifter's fault, when his own hand is doing the mistakes). I never was good at first with the Act-Labs shifter, nor this G25 shifter. They are toys, you need to learn how they work and feel. There never has been a stickshift that is like the real thing. But it's not like the shifter is hard to master.

Sorry, but how you mount the shifter is entirely up to you, however it being a "stretch" to reach the buttons, or the fact that the shifter is high to reach... are you sitting really low? I mount the shifter only like a hand's width apart from the wheel, and my arm isn't even fully extended when I shift. If you "reach" out for the shifter, than that is the cause of your shifting problems probably. Doing that makes the shifting more diagonal than forward-directional so to speak.... which is better for using a gear shifter on your desk I find.

It is good to see you think your view isn't quite fair, because there are numerous things that are preference and can take some getting used to, or need to be learned.

Quote from Rtsbasic :

If possible with your desk you could mount the pedals upside down against the back of the desk, this would not only be more realistic, but should also fix the spacing issue? Its almost like Logi designed them for people to be able to do this. Might need to swap the clutch and pedals units or springs around though so you don't end up with a heavy throttle.

I don't think this is really feasible. Unlike the DFP pedals the platform for these pedals extends behind the pedals quite a bit. I have a feeling this extension of the platform would get in the way if you tried to invert mount them. I haven't given a real close look to what it would take to disassemble and swap the gas and clutch pedal, but I somehow doubt it would be trivial. I think the easiest solution is going to be to remove the actual pedals themselves, drill a couple of new holes in the gas and brake, and then remount them closer to each other.

Quote :

Thanks for the review btw. Sucks to hear most everyone thinks the shifter is too light, when mine turns up I look forward to having it apart and seeing what can be done to better optimize it for use in H gate mode (Logi's reasoning for it not having more resistance is because then it'd suck in sequential mode, but i don't ever really plan to use that).

I hate to think about voiding my warrantee on a brand new piece of hardware, but the shifter really does bother me. I have a feeling that before the weekend is over I will have disassembled the shifter to see if I can lengthen the shaft and put in stiffer springs.

Quote from Tweaker :

You aren't pleased with the pedals????????? What is there to dislike about them?

No, I am not pleased with them. As I said in my review, the gas and brake pedals are too far apart while the clutch and brake pedals are too close together. This makes heel-toe (or in my case, side-of-foot - toe) hard to do.

Quote :

Though the shifter is strange at first, you need to get used to it. Using it for only a day must mean you are shifting like a noob (sorry, but friend used his first day and can't stop complaining that misshifts are the shifter's fault, when his own hand is doing the mistakes). I never was good at first with the Act-Labs shifter, nor this G25 shifter. They are toys, you need to learn how they work and feel. There never has been a stickshift that is like the real thing.

I don't want to have to "get used to it". I want something that feels authentic in the first place. If I can drive a stick shift car in real life, I should be able to drive a stick shift car in a sim. Of course I was the one making the mistakes in shifting. And I was making mistakes because the gates are very close and the stick is very short with soft springs. Also, because of the way the stick has to be pushed down for reverse, it's easy to put too much pressure on the stick and get it stuck between gears. As I've already said, I think that a longer shift lever and stiffer springs could work wonders. It's just a matter of figuring out how hard this will be to accomplish and whether or not the mechanism can take the extra abuse.

The change with the G25 is different. If you are coming from a standard 270* wheel, you will need a lot of practice to get used to a 900* wheel. If your upgrading from a DFP, I find it much easier to use and actually after about 5 minutes of getting the shifting and clutch down, I was actually faster then my times with my DFP.

I aggree with your thoughts on the shifter. It needs more resistance in the shifting. Nothing drastic, just more resistance so you can feel where your going. But after using it, its easy to figure out which gear is where and I hardly ever mis-shift. The buttons on the shifter are a bit awkward, they could have done a better job at implimenting them. I probably will only ever use the lower 4 red buttons, one for the rev limiter, one for the cars fuel, tires, and pitstop info. I dont really care for the mounting hardware though. I have a glass desk and is somewhat thin. The clamps only clamp down so far and i cant clamp it down tight unless I put something under ths shifter to raise it up a bit(I used about 5 CDs). Doesnt really matter though as I am going to build a new cockpit in a few weeks and impliment the shifter into the pit.

The pedals are great for what they are. I have no problems heal-and-toeing. I have size 13 feet and just use socks and have no problem at all reaching the brake and gas pedal with the same foot.

Other then the slight defect mine had in the wheel, I think its a very good buy for the price. The shift could use a bit more engineering, but the wheel is pretty darn close to perfect. I love the feel(dont have the thumb chaffing like you did). The overall diameter is great, its at least 1" larger in diameter and does indeed feel like more like a real wheel(not stock, but an undersized aftermarket wheel).

I think that about somes it up.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Cueball: Thanks! Nice reasoned review, very worthy. I'll continue to follow your discussions with Tweak (Tweak: Sorry but you are sounding a bit like you're suffering from "proud owner" syndrome so far, but it's nice to hear a contrasting view) to get a good gauge of opinion.

+several for this thread.

It's not any "proud owner" syndrome, it is just that you can't take something and be instanstly satisfied without learning something. Nothing you buy is ever 100% as expected is it? I am satisfied with the G25, regardless if it has two buttons on the wheel, or if the shifter isn't like the real thing.

I mean Cue-Ball mentions he is stretching to grab the buttons, and that the shifter can pinch him??? :zombie: Some of these things honestly sound like exagerrations to me, it is nothing like that. And if you put the wheel on a table, and the shifter right beside it, of course it isn't low like in a real car :doh: But having it mounted so that you reach over and have trouble to touch the buttons? I guess that is how some people will initially try this, but mount it just to the right of the wheel with some gap, and I don't find myself "reaching" for anything at all. Either he sits low, and really far back with arms extended (common tip from real drivers, you shouldn't drive like that), or he just has it mounted in far places...

Any wheel I've bought I was never satisfied because it took some getting used to. But all wheels I have owned have been world record capable, so it doesn't mean that any particular "flaws" in this design will make you slower or annoyed. I was dissapointed that I wouldn't have a button on the wheel for pit limiter, but after using one of the red buttons on the shifter console as the limiter button, I don't find that difficult at all to press on and off when in pit situations. Which is why some people need to not jump to conclusions, because initial reactions to a product you buy are most likely to change after longer use.

For $300, it isn't a "you get what you paid for" deal where it denotes the product as being a cheap-o steal with basic controls. It still is a good wheel... and I'd be much happier spending $300 on a G25 than going out and buying expensive simulation equipment for two or three times the amount. I have a Red MOMO, and I "swore" it was the best wheel, and many people claim it is. But at the moment it is stowed away in my closest because it is JUNK compared to the G25. That's all I have to say.

I've made this thread by trawling through the 700 odd posts about the G25 and picking out the relevant ones that are "reviewy" for the benefit of anyone interested. So it might seem a little disjointed.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

. Also, because of the way the stick has to be pushed down for reverse, it's easy to put too much pressure on the stick and get it stuck between gears.

Welcome to Volkswagen / Audi-Land, at least the Logi shifter reverse is off of 5th / 6th gear gate, try going down to first and fearing a reverse engagment....

But then again, the ease of pushing down during actual usage in the Audi isn't that light. :P

My roommate has a 99 VW Jetta that has the weird reverse engange ment. It felt so strange going into first for reverse! Id prefer my real car to have a standard reverse at the end of the gate.

Quote from sethmobr :

My roommate has a 99 VW Jetta that has the weird reverse engange ment. It felt so strange going into first for reverse! Id prefer my real car to have a standard reverse at the end of the gate.

It's called a dog leg first, and has certain advantages. As you only ever use 1st for getting away from a standstill, it doesn't need to be easy to change into 2nd, but in regular driving the change from 2nd to 3rd, and 4th to 5th is now a simple cross-gate move, rather than a forwards, right, forwards move. So for fast-road use a dog-leg first is much preferred.

However, it seems as though the 'standard' system is (as is often the case) the sub-par method, and then people find it wierd driving a decent 'box.

Quote :

I mean Cue-Ball mentions he is stretching to grab the buttons, and that the shifter can pinch him??? Some of these things honestly sound like exagerrations to me, it is nothing like that.

I have very long fingers and I find reaching the buttons to be quite a stretch if you are reaching over the shifter. You almost end up hitting the red buttons with your finger nails. If you come at the buttons from the side then there is no stretching involved, but now you are banging your knuckles on the shifter. Simply put, the buttons are awkwardly placed, but I'm not sure what else they could have done.

It's all about design compromise. I think they took the buttons off the wheel to reduce rotational inertia. They shrunk down the central hub considerably and took tons of material out of it, and made the wheel grip thinner. This let them bump the wheel diameter up while still having a wheel light enough to respond very quickly to the force feedback motors. However they did it, the resulting wheel feels great. It's super fast and responsive, with very little FF lag.

As an overall package, G25 kicks major ass. I loved my DFP, but to anybody buying a wheel today (especially if they play Live for Speed): save up the extra scratch for the G25. The DFP is tolerable if you never go beyond 270 degrees from lock to lock, but if you want to go beyond that, you really want a G25.

Quote from Eric Tetz :

I have very long fingers and I find reaching the buttons to be quite a stretch if you are reaching over the shifter. You almost end up hitting the red buttons with your finger nails. If you come at the buttons from the side then there is no stretching involved, but now you are banging your knuckles on the shifter. Simply put, the buttons are awkwardly placed, but I'm not sure what else they could have done.

I guess it is the way people sit at their desk and hold the wheel. If people are sitting far back and stretching their arms to hold the wheel like their are driving a rocket in hyperspace, then that is a horrible way to drive. Real driving schools recommend that you sit closer to the wheel so that your elbows have quite a bit of bend in them. This also reduces fatigue (the closer you are, the less tired you become (eg Nascar)). If you are sitting really far back, of course it is going to hard to reach the buttons, but I can have just a slight bend in my elbow, and I can reach the buttons just fine. I can even put my hand to the right of the shifter, and use my thumb for the top black buttons. That shows how much ease it is for me to press the buttons. If you are stretching for dear life trying to touch those buttons, I suggest sitting in a different position. Because I just cannot comprehend how someone would have trouble reaching the buttons, and then say it is a design flaw. :zombie:

Quote from Eric Tetz :

It's all about design compromise. I think they took the buttons off the wheel to reduce rotational inertia. They shrunk down the central hub considerably and took tons of material out of it, and made the wheel grip thinner. This let them bump the wheel diameter up while still having a wheel light enough to respond very quickly to the force feedback motors. However they did it, the resulting wheel feels great. It's super fast and responsive, with very little FF lag.

Those buttons are like a few grams or something, very light. They could've easily added more... but the only reason I can see why would be because of the design of the wheel's spokes. Adding more buttons on that and/or thickening up the metal would just look pretty dumb. The wheel is very lightweight, but a few more buttons would hardly affect rotation I think.

I don't have my set yet, but I can see that there can be problems reaching the buttons on the shifter even if you're sitting close up... From the very first picture I've seen from the shifter set, I thought: "How the hell am I supposed to reach those buttons blindly without the risk of knocking the lever out of gear?" From the look of all the fotos, there is no direct, thus comfortable way of reaching the buttons behind the shifter... It's either reaching the buttons over the shifter or trying to get to them from either side...

The shifter gets easier as you practice as does heel-toe. If you are struggling with the shifter and missing gears a lot take heart that it will improve as you become more familiar with the shifter. Sequential mode works very well too (and is quiet), a lot of fun in the FZR.

Putting the buttons on the shifter was a big mistake by Logitech but it does eliminate a lot of stretching cable issues and benefits the mechanical design of the wheel assembly. The buttons are hard to reach because the stick is in the way, really stupid design. If the shifter can be mounted closer to your body and lower than desk-height it would be more suitable for button use.

I've been using the clutch and h-gate a lot and it really is satisfying once you get the hang of it. I had to adjust my setups a bit to alter the brake strength and bias to suit the new brake pedal feel and to help with heel-toe. I also adjusted some gear ratios for 1st and 2nd to make clutching more appropriate on launch.

I will be building a mechanical handbrake though, there is no button in a good place to use as a handbrake, the two buttons on my wheel are mapped to look left/right. This is an unfortunate oversight by Logitech, and they were given plenty of feedback during the design process but to no avail.

Regardless of these shortcomings the G25 still comes up a winner for me. You can drive so hard with this thing and it feels like it can withstand rough handling without any trouble. Lap times have improved across the board, probably due to smoother throttle/brake and steering I'm getting with this wheel.

Too expensive, but bloody great to use. I'm enjoying more cars in LFS than ever before.

Quote from Tweaker :

If people are sitting far back and stretching their arms to hold the wheel like their are driving a rocket in hyperspace, then that is a horrible way to drive.

My G25 is hooked up to a normal computer desk. I imagine most G25 users will setup theirs the same. The shifter is within easy reach, just to the right of the wheel.

I'm 6'2" guitarist/pianist with long fingers. I find reaching over the shifter knob to get to the buttons is awkward. With the shifter ball in the palm of my hand, my fingers are fully extended to reach the buttons (especially the red buttons). Using the d-pad with the tips of fully extended fingers is funky. I can reach the buttons by coming in from the sides, to avoid the shifter, but that's awkward, too. Coming in from the left, you have to be careful not to bump the shifter with your knuckles; from the right, you are facing your palm out and turning your thumb down, which is awkward, too.

If you find the buttons to be conveniently placed, consider yourself lucky. Judging from the user impressions I've read, I'd say you're a minority.

Personally, I don't care at all. I love the wheel, I love the whole package, and the button placement doesn't bother me, but I think it's kinda wierd that you're telling someone who doesn't like the layout that he's straight-up wrong, as if there's something wrong with him if he doesn't share your opinion, when you can just look at the thing and see the problem.

Quote :

I just cannot comprehend how someone would have trouble reaching the buttons, and then say it is a design flaw.

I don't consider it a design flaw, I consider it a design compromise.

Quote :

Those buttons are like a few grams or something, very light. They could've easily added more... but the only reason I can see why would be because of the design of the wheel's spokes.

More buttons = more wires = larger wheel spokes and central hub to accommodate them, right? I could be totally full of shit here, I'm just guessing. However, I tend to guess with the underlying assumption that the engineers at Logitech are smart guys who have put a hell of a lot more thought into this wheel than any of us have.

Quote from Gunn :

Regardless of these shortcomings the G25 still comes up a winner for me. You can drive so hard with this thing and it feels like it can withstand rough handling without any trouble. Lap times have improved across the board, probably due to smoother throttle/brake and steering I'm getting with this wheel. Too expensive, but bloody great to use. I'm enjoying more cars in LFS than ever before.

I totally agree. This wheel has turned LFS into a whole new game for me. Although I don't think it's too expensive. I'm amazed at what they managed to bring to market for a mere 300 bones.

Alright, here's a review for all of you.

Just for some background, my previous wheels were as follows:

Act-Labs Force RS /w Perf Pedals & GPL Shifter
Logitech Driving Force Pro (tossed their pedals, kept my Perf Peds & Shifter)

Now I have my hands on the Logitech G25 wheel, here are my initial impressions:

First of all, I was expecting the wheel diameter to be bigger based on what everyone has been going on about. Yes, it's maybe 1/4 of an inch bigger than the DFP, but I'm pretty sure my leather-wrapped Act-Labs wheel was even bigger than this one. Not that I'm disappointed, it's a great, sporty quick steering wheel nonetheless.

Force Feedback, excellent. This wheels' FFB is to the DFP as the DFP was to my Act-Labs wheel. It's a great step up and it's much tighter and quieter than the DFP. Like most people, I've left the Wingman settings at 100%, turned off Centering Force and I have LFS set around 48% Force and it feels great.

Tracking, excellent. There's no more center play, or directional play in the wheel like there used to be on the DFP. The new crazy system they use to take the slack up and make their optical tracking thing super-precise works great.

Pedals, OK. I find my feet rub together when I'm on the clutch & brake. I still think in terms of layout the Act-Labs Performance Pedals are better. The feel of the pedals is good, and the method they use to provide resistance on the brake & clutch seems to me like it will be a little more durable than the failure-laden Act-Labs products.

Shifter, Awesome. I don't care what everyone else says that this shifter is weird to use, or you have button pressing issues, etc. When you're racing, why are you trying to hit all these buttons?! My focus is on steering and shifting. The shifter gates are small and quick. It took me only 15 minutes last night to get the feel down. You can slam it around and it responds excellently. The push down reverse is pretty cool as well, if not a little infuriating when you're trying to back out of a spill, but hey, that's racing. My only complaint about the shifter is the footprint under the desk. Usually I have my mouse beside the keyboard on the tray, this shifter takes up that entire space where my mouse was, forcing me to move my mouse up onto the main part of my desk. A small sacrifice if you ask me.

Overall quality: Supreme. Logitech pulled out a lot of stops on this product, and they're starting to compete with the big boys like ECCI with this regular consumer-minded kit. The brushed steel is a nice touch and the hand-wrapped leather, although not original (Act-Labs did this first), the quality is above and beyond what anyone else has come up with so far.

See you all on the track

Previous wheels:

1) MS Precision Pro
2) Logitech Driving Force Pro
3) The unholy alliance of MS pedals and DFP wheel as Logitech's el cheapo plastiko pedals crapped themselves finally


First impressions of G25 and incoherent babbling:

"You sure this is the right box?"

I was expecting a lot bigger box, but behold - the G25 was wrapped snuggly inside when I tore her clothes off and pushed my hands insid-- nevermind. Ahh the delicious smell of new electronics; wrapped up in cold steel, smooth leather and [insert sexy word] plastic.

Eyebrow raising letters on the sealed driver envelope inside: "Rev. 0.5"

[getting bored, must continue later]

Anywhoo. In my first LFS session with the G25 I nailed a new pb, but more importantly I was a lot more consistent and driving fast felt easier. The G25's accuracy, sharp inputs, low noise and very solid construction makes DFP feel really B-quality.

good to hear, I would be dissappointed if it didnt feel a step up from the dfp

Quote from spankmeyer :

Previous wheels:

1) MS Precision Pro
2) Logitech Driving Force Pro
3) The unholy alliance of MS pedals and DFP wheel as Logitech's el cheapo plastiko pedals crapped themselves finally


First impressions of G25 and incoherent babbling:

"You sure this is the right box?"

I was expecting a lot bigger box, but behold - the G25 was wrapped snuggly inside when I tore her clothes off and pushed my hands insid-- nevermind. Ahh the delicious smell of new electronics; wrapped up in cold steel, smooth leather and [insert sexy word] plastic.

Eyebrow raising letters on the sealed driver envelope inside: "Rev. 0.5"

[getting bored, must continue later]

Anywhoo. In my first LFS session with the G25 I nailed a new pb, but more importantly I was a lot more consistent and driving fast felt easier. The G25's accuracy, sharp inputs, low noise and very solid construction makes DFP feel really B-quality.

all these reviews are driving (haha) me crazy. i want my g25.

*deep breaths* one more day...

Just moved a couple of posts out of this thread and into general discussion. So don't worry, I've not deleted anything, just trying to keep this thread to only review. Cheers.

Well i've had the wheel a few hours now and tried with as many combos as possible... and here goes...

WHAT A LOAD OF CR*P!!

hahhaa only joking!

It's AWESOME! I'll list my favourite parts in order..

1. The Brake Pedal... It's awesome, it feels so damn good and I can now take the fox into the last bend of AS2 without locking up and still be as fast! GREAT!

2. The Wheel feedback/speed... when the wheel goes light now and you let it spin it's amazing, it feels so damn real (well, as close as we'll get for a while)

3. The Shifter in general.. ok so it's quite toy like, but it's brilliant to use, i've just finished 3 laps of Aston North in the LX4 using heel and toe (not something i've used much before but my last car had a racing clutch so needed to do it) and it's great... I think we'll see a LOT more LXx servers when the G25's start landing in their hundreds.

Also no-one has mentioned the shifter in sequential mode... I think it's ace, and will use it with RBR and any other driving game where you might not have paddles or a 6-gate.

4. EVERYTHING else, I love it all.... ok i have proud ownder disease at the moment, but it's rare to buy something and not find a reasonable niggle early. (xbox360 was also like this by the way, impressed!)

Anyway, screw you guys, i'm going back to my LX4