Correct! There are about 5 spots open. This has turned out to be a great series with good participation.
Funny you mention SO4. The next LOTA Formula V8 Challenge event (November 30th) is at South City Long. You should come race with us. When we were searching for a car to use for the League Of The Americas, the car we kept coming back to is the FO8. GTR's are overdone, BF1 makes people's eye's bug out, and the FOX is too bloody easy to drive. The FO8 has proven to be a pretty good league choice, now that the tire physics have improved 10-fold.
It's not about having traction control. I've been playing GPL for years and it remains a great racing feeling to me. I just think the FV8 throttle doesn't feel right.
Unfortunately, it seems that not all LFS drivers are as skilled as you are. A lot of people - me included - are probably too slow and lazy to try to learn the wonders of throttle control.
I don't think F-3, Vauxhall and Renault formulas have the most up to date technology and manufacturing technic. Neither GP2. And it has nothing to do with the price of the cars. Obviously those cars are expensive, but are low tech regarding driver aids.
And compared to virtual drivers/kart drivers GP2 guys are veterans, but compared to professional mature drivers they are amateurs, learning to be fast and to understand the reactions of a racing car, therefore more susceptible to driving mistakes - that they don't make too often, by the way. Sure it does not apply to the most talented kids, that soon reach F-1, but overall they are rookies.
VIP: Being lazy isn't an excuse at all. It's like killing someone on the street and then saying "i was lazy to push brakes". That just doesn't work.
Well on the other hand if you can't control the car (obviously not all of us are natural born racers) even if you are trying hard it's another thing. Then you should just pick something that is easier to drive, something that suits you better.
And of course expecting a 500hp single-seater not to spin it's wheels on the corner when you floor it is just optimistic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9s-R4HgZA0 <- this one is a good example of showing how does computer games differ from the real thing. And next time i hear you talking things like "they are rookies" i'll stab you in the face. That is just a huge disrespect to what those guys have achieved:slap:
@marsaz: That Top Gear video isn't quite as applicable to LFS as it is to GT4, simply due to the fact that GT4 is a semi-sim rather than a true sim like LFS. Note for example the comment on adjusting brake and throttle mid-corner. In GT4, you can be an utter monkey mashing the throttle mid-corner and nothing happens. Whole different story in LFS.
I love the FO8. I think it's great fun to drive, simply because it's challenging. If you can handle not just mindlessly flooring the throttle it's great to drive. I'd love to see less FOX/GTR servers and more FO8s, especially on courses like Fern Bay Gold.
They are done to death on some tracks and not at all on others. Blackwood - for example - has too much GTR. If we had more GTR at South City, Aston other than national (basically North), Fern Bay (Green or Gold) and Kyoto national it would be better than AsNat or Blackwood. That's annoying ... IMO the most fun and accessible cars in LFS only on the most overused tracks...
[embarrassment]I totally agree. I have 1700+ laps there. It is really the only place you can find to race in the evenings where I'm at.[/embarrassment]
Everywhere else is just folks hotlapping and practicing for leagues, drifting, or there are only 2 people. I've been racing with a very very small group lately, but it just isn't the same with only 2 or three others.
As to why not the F08? I don't know? For some reason I just don't like the thing. I don't like the fact that the gauges are floating in the middle of the screen, though that was a nice addition from Scawen for those of us who don't display the wheel. I also don't like to reconfigure my entire wheel to use the paddle shifters. Really messes me up as that is my look function and I usually give a few quick looks when I do it. So that means I'll screw up passing someone on the right and hit the left look paddle and downshift 3 gears, LOL.
And why among all technologies you have to empahsis on driver aids? the technology used in chassis design, aerodynamics, are all very critical in terms of technology, driver aids is just one part of it, just because they don't have active suspension and transformable aero parts doesn't mean they are low tech, most of these are down to rules and ensuring a level playing field.
And what is your definition of professional racing drivers? It seems to you only F1 driver counts as professional racing drivers? yes people can get into F3 at a relatively young age with only couple years of karting experience behind them, but to get there you first have to have success in lower formule, and unless you are very talented or rich, you usually have to spend a few years trying your luck and getting the results needed, a amateur cannot produce the consistent result needed to attract enough funding. guys in GP2 are one step from F1, many of them have the ability, but even with talent it's hard to get in the frey, no body can compete in these series without talent.... Heck, even winning at kart level is no where easy, just ask around the forum the chances of having both the talent and the resource, and having the right moment to make it happen. I don't know what racing experience you have that you base your judgement on, probably you think it is easy, someone can just jump in a single seater and instantly be quick, however that is definitely not the case.
I used to hate the FO8 in pre-U. It was, as other ppl have said, a bit wild. Then again I only really played with mouse in those days...mouse+FO8 = spin. Damn difficult with a digital throttle (esp starts) and slippy tire physics. I haven't played with it much since simply because I've settled on a few other cars as faves in the interim. I have played with the FO8 a little after patch U and it's now much more accessible. The only reason I don't really play with it is that the only servers with ppl on are on KY GP or KY Oval. Two of my least favourite tracks!
I tend to agreee with a lot of what has been said so far as to why the FO8 is unpopular. FOX provides accessibility and good wheel to wheel racing and the BF1 provides power. Of course, there probably is also still a general perception in the community that the FO8 is hard to tame (as it pretty much was pre-U). The most ppl can do is race FO8 servers even if they are next to empty and hope that other ppl trickle into the servers.
Depends on what sort of challenge you want. I'd rather have a challenge based around competing with other ppl than the car, of course, I can also see the fun wrestling with a car and forcing it round a track fast. Generally I prefer the challenge of racing with others though.
I can understand that point as well, racing is better if there's a somehow level field with consistent performance, that's when you have close racing lap after lap, if everyone is prone to mistakes then there won't be much racing going on. However in our racing instinct there's always a voice telling us to raise the mark and accept a bigger challenge, so maybe someday people will embrace the f08, just like the LRF class is getting more popular (although still quite slowly).
With all due respect, I don't think I've ever seen a race car with a keyboard instead of a steering wheel. I can't imagine you should expect to be able to control the FO8 with a KB.
I just drove FO8 on SO5r for the first time and I'm hooked. The car feels great once the throttle feeling gets familiar and the track is absolutely marvellous with all of it's bumps.
That wasn't the point The point is the difference between sitting on the sofa and driving a racecar. While you're playing some sim there is no G forces you have to fight, there is no fear you can feel in some corners (or during high speed). It takes lots of practice to become good and master things to the level where you are concerned about yourself enough to not to be frightened of high speed, an incoming wall (at the very end of a long straight for eg.) or some corner which you exit at the very edge of the track and there is no safe zone (just like in a street circuit). The gp2 cars have nearly 600hp and they achieve 200mph. There is no living rookie driving something like that
F08's throttle doesn't feel right ? :/ There is nothing hugely wrong with the car and it doesn't even take all that much to drive the thing. You can't just slam your foot down and excpect to get lots of traction, otherwise there would be no challenge in racing. These aren't scalertrix cars.
It's not a bug in LFS if your too lazy to learn how to modulate the throttle rather than use it as an on/off switch
F3, Formula Renault etc are all fairly hi-tech racing cars. They may not have the technology of an F1 car but they do cost a fair bit of money and are built for one task, racing. Building a racing car isn't a simple task of sketching out in the back of a notepad and putting it into production. Even kart chassis and engines are highly developed and in the case of some classes new evolutions of engine are released improving them slightly, amd this is in a single make series.
You seem to think that drivers in GP2, F3, Formula Renault are all rookies who have never sat in a racing car before, which is wrong by a far shot. Most of them will have raced karts since they were 8 years of age. They probably have the guts of 5/8 years driving experience before they reach Formula Renault. Ask any professional driver where they learnt most of there car control + racing techniques and they will say in their early years of karting. From there on it's about adapting the skills you've developed to suit the car you are currently driving.
It's just fact you can't slam the throttle down. You always see the odd person make a mistake in the series you have mentioned, hell a race doesn't go by when someone doesn't throw it off the road. But you can't compare it to an LFS race where people don't use the throttle correctly. None of them drivers in real life will slam the throttle to the floor if they know the grip isn't there to do that.
I LOVE the fo8, one of my fav cars. I'd be on 24/7 racing if there was a server available for the f08.
Someone should set one up for the few fo8 fans, and as more ppl see it as a populated server in the list, they will come check it out and possibly drive it once or twice. Who knows, they may even like it!
I emphasized on driver aids because driver aids - like tc - are not present in lower formula cars, making it more difficult to drive, although those drivers do not make too many mistakes and do not spin too often, what is related to my first point.
And critical technology compared to what? F-Renault, Vauxhall, British, German, Spanish and South American F-3, sure those cars are expensive, demand a project, engineers and high quality production, but they are not "critical technology". GP2 is a step above but not a big difference either.
A professional driver is someone who is paid to drive. The great majority of F-3 and GP2 drivers are not paid to drive. Actually, some of them have to pay to drive (from sponsors or their own pocket). Most of them are not professional.
And I think you distorted what I said previously. I didn't say it is easy to get there, nor that those lower formula drivers are not talented. Don't put words in my mouth.
You can't tell if it is right or wrong, because you have never drove a racing car in your whole life, so like me you're just expressing your opinion.
I didn't say it is a bug. And LFS is the best racing game to me the way it is. Unfortunately some people just can't accept criticism to their favorite game - even if it intends to make the game better and more fun to people who support it.
But it's funny. Looking at your history in lfs world I see you practically only race the FOX. Thousands of laps in this car, and just some in the FV8. It surprised me because you are not lazy, likes a big challenge and the wonders of throttle control. Or maybe you are being hypocritical when you say the FV8 is fun and express how driving a car should be.
You are kidding, aren't you? Sure I know they raced before. Here in my country there is big motorsport activity, and we use to look for potential great drivers since they are karting. By the way, on november 7 a national driver, Luiz Razia, tested for GP2 and was the third fastest between the 27 drivers that were there. He is seventeen years old. He did a good job although never on a GP2 car before, but obviously he is rookie, as he himself admits. Like him there are other talented kids that can be fast and handle any car, but are not yet mature drivers.
Yes, that's oldest cliche in racing world. Thanks for reminding me.
I agree. But in real life racing cars a slight touch in the throttle will not lead the car to spin as well.
Slight touches don't result in a spin in the FO8 either. However, to an inexperienced driver a "slight touch" may be much more than they think. I was modulating the throttle quite easily in my aforementioned race at FE Black without any problems. As a matter of fact, I would often come out of the hairpin off the bridge, start feeding in the throttle, and when the car was straightened out, give it full throttle in first gear. I'd sometimes get some mild wheelspin, but it was very easily controllable and I was never given reason to reduce the throttle from full. Other times I used the throttle to get the car rotated if I braked too deep and went wide.
Its not "easy". It is challenging. Too challenging for some it seems, but that is not the fault of the car . It is not supposed to be easy. Heck this car has 460 hp. Did you ever drove something with 460 hp on 600kg ? Do you know how much power this is on the rear wheels?
2 years ago I had a Ride in a Group C Le Mans Car, I was not driving, was just passenger, but man was this car a beast. It had 300 hp on 650 kg. If you never drove with something that is close to its power to weight ratio of the Formula V8 car, dont even think that its supposed to be easy.
Maybe, thats the reason why the majority do not drive this car, its not easy to jump in and just have a Race, unlike the smaller cars, but its not supposed to be easy anyway.
There is a Motorsport school in Austria named "Leitgeb Motorsport", it offers you to drive Formula cars in Hungary and I was there doing it.
We were at the Pannoniaring which is a beautiful Race track with elevation changes close to the Hungary-Austrian Border.
There were around 50 people, normal people with no prior Motorsport experience, just your average indoor Go Kart riders who, for the first time in there life had the chance to drive in a Formula 3000 car.
And these people are not poor, they are Sports Fan, and the cars of these people included types like Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Porsche so these people drove powerful cars in there private lifes.
They paid 1000 Euro to be allowed to drive 5 or 6 laps in a real Formula 3000 car (V8).
Here are some of the rules:
- If you crash the car you have to pay every part of the car that is destroyed and the cleaning (Formula car parts cost up to several thousand Euros)
- If you only spin the car once, you have to immediately go back to the pits and get out of the car, there is no refund in that case.
WITH THAT IN MIND there were People spinning the F3000 car on there first bloody lap !!
There was even one guy who drove out of the Pits and spinned the car coming out of the second corner! So he payed 1000 Euro and drove only a couple of hundred meters with it, he also thought he could push the car like he pushes his real life Porsche, the problem is his Porsche has
320 hp on 1500 kg
but the Formula 3000 car has
460 hp on 600 kg
If you only drove Porsche and Jaguars in your real life before, the F3000 feels like your sitting on a Rocket. Thats why a about a third of these 50 guys who sat in a F3000 car for the first time could not complete the 6 laps. Half of them spinned out the car coming out of the corner, or drove into the gravel and had to pay.
But Man I can assure you, everybody who climbed out of the F3000 car was totally amazed and in disbelief about the rude Power that car has.
People were jittering from the experience.
The training day included a Ride in a F2000 car and then a jump into the F3000 car, people were saying the 2 cars are a World of a difference.
460 hp on 600 kg, if you think thats supposed to be easy to drive, your mistaken. And I hope that you also will be able to one day have a Ride in a Formula car, so you can see for yourself how much rude Power this thing generates.
If you watch a F3, GP2, F-Renault or 'whatever cars' you see all drivers spinning out every now and then.
Do you think Schumacher, Alonso or any driver in this world could spend a season in any of these cars and never spin it? If you search for the limit in any of these Powerful cars you will be over the limit sometimes, spinning in a Formula car is just normal, and it happened to the Greatest as well as to the unexperienced.
Dont think that because a Formula 2000 car is the slowest Formula car in the line up that it is in any way slow. I have driven that car in real life, the car outruns a Ferrari Road car. And thats 180 hp on 500 kg "only"
Which is not the fault of the car for Gods sake. Is this a Simulator or should each car be programmed to win a Popularity contest?
These cars are not supposed to be easy, and they are indeed sensitive, that would be the first thing you would say when you climb out of the F3000 car in real life. I have seen the people climbing out of these cars, they are amazed, excited, afraid, shocked, in disbelief are the words that describe it.
Could you describe what is your specific problem with the handling of the Formula V8 car in LFS? Maybe we can give you tips how to keep the car on track and drive smoothly. First Tip is: Change your Gearing Ratio, and then practise you will see if you practise a little bit with a easy to drive setup you will be able to drive constantly and several hundred laps without losing the car. It needs a little patience, driving skill and practise.
The point is the difference between sitting on the sofa and driving a racecar. While you're playing some sim there is no G forces you have to fight, there is no fear you can feel in some corners (or during high speed). It takes lots of practice to become good and master things to the level where you are concerned about yourself enough to not to be frightened of high speed, an incoming wall (at the very end of a long straight for eg.) or some corner which you exit at the very edge of the track and there is no safe zone (just like in a street circuit). The gp2 cars have nearly 600hp and they achieve 200mph. There is no living rookie driving something like that