Yes if you really want to take advantage of that modification you must reprogram the ecu not only for the vtec management but also the fuel injection and the advance of the ignition.
But because ecu tuning may be easy to do but not easy to have the desirable result, we usually tune it after more modifications than an aftermarket exhaust pipe.
The main reason someone changes the exhaust pipe and silencer, is the better sound.
There is no need to change the exhaust system if you don’t upgrade the intake system.
Also a small amount of back pressure is wanted and in four stroke engines cause of the valve overlap which all modern engines have in some degree.
So having a wide diameter exhaust pipe without providing the proportional air and fuel in the intake will bring loss of power.
Note the EVOs use ACD and AYC, things meant to simulate ideal differentials to get the most out of a chassis. However, note the current Evo is ultimately limited by its 235 width tires. The EVO X will have 255 tires to bridge the gap between its massively overtyred European rivals. As for diff preference, I've not been lucky enough to interview the current WRC guys yet, but when winning really counts, drivers tend to prefer whatever get's them a win. Having computer controlled diffs doesn't really make the car less easy to crash at the absolute limit as seen by these drivers. Actually, one reason they banned active diffs for top drivers in WRC is the ever increasing cornering speeds afforded by partly near ideal diff behavior.
Chasis stiffness. Well, no one is actually aiming for SOFTER chassis these days for obvious reasons. Soft chassis are annoyingly insensitive to suspension setup changes. Chasis flex isn't as precisely controlled as suspension motions, being notoriously underdamped. It doesn't feel so bad with the sphagetti noodle morgans (not all morgans are THAT soft though) because their natural frequencies are so low and you don't perceive the oscillations so well. The worse case I've actually had IRL is the Nissan Patrol. It flexes so much that it actually pops the real door quite often while negotiating axle crossing terrain off road.
Last time I checked, the current luxury BMWs have computer controlled ARBs and Dampers to provide brilliant ride even with the stiff low profile sidewalls. It's actually easy to deal with stiff sidewall induced jigglyness. Just use speed sensitive dampers that have high speed blow offs that provide lower rates of damping force increase with speed at predefined blow off damper speeds. With computer control, this is only a software tweak away.
As for the Diesel, I'll like to further discuss this with you in another thread that's more Diesel vs Petrol Oriented. It's rather hard to explain my points without getting long and VERY technical. On that note, don't worry about chopping trees for biodiesel. One example is Malaysia, a place where there's already a serious overproduction of plam oil, so much so that prices are terribly low. If the current initiative to make biodiesel work pulls through, it'll definitely do more good than harm. I'll start a proper Diesel thread when I've got time and try to properly explain everything that matters. I'm not hating all petrols, I'm just saying that if biodiesel works as it should, there's more sustainable hope. Trees need a lot of CO2 to make oil BTW. Might as well use the already deforested areas to make biodiesel than leaving them to rot. And there's always the option of super efficient algea. And do note that diesels have moved much faster than petrol in the past 10 years than petrol ever has in the past 20 years. The latest BMW production diesels make max power arund 4700rpm and redline at 5500rpm. That's no worse than a current Aussie V-8 sedan (5500rpm redline too).
BTW, I happen to have seriously upgraded to adjustable dampers on my Pajero and the difference is amazing. What used to feel like a washboard now feels like almost nothing. If it wasn't for the fact that I visually scan the terrain ahead of me as I drive and the tiny bit of tire rumble, I wouldn't feel a thing. And speed bumps are actually most comfortable when taken at faster tha the usual sub 20km/h speeds. The "miracle" of a high speed blowoff valve. What matters even more is that the dampers are MUCH stiffer at low damper speeds for precise roll rate control and transient handling. All this with no electronics or computers, just some well balanced settings attained by adjusting stiffness knobs.
I rather enjoy discussing technical issues with someone like you too, but you're rather quick to accuse me of fanboyism. I just say things as observed, not blindly believing some overglorified import tuner crap. BTW, I DON'T subscribe to that crap. I am not anti old tech. Otherwise, why would I prefer to dirve with no nanny tuned TC and ABS IRL? Because it actually works better for me. I like technologies that work well, old or new. I read RACECAR ENGINEERING. One reason WHY I play LFS.
As on VTEC. I've driven 1.6L VTEC Civics IRL, and let's just say the lack of low end torque is horrid. At least it runs like hell at high revs. As kaynd explained, wild cam all the time isn't always idea, since the valves must be tuned to ensure gas flow velocties and so on. FYI, the optimum switychover point for VTEC is very close to 5000rpm.
BTW, if I remeber correctly, the latest i-VTEC has 3 stages of valve settings. If tuned correctly, this would be a major boon for both racing and roadcar use. The reason variable valves are not used in racing are wide and varied, but one includes the rules. It's unfortunate that almost everyone's going NASCAR these days. Well, F-1 has become so technically restrictive now it is has fast become formula irrelevant. And those oxymorons try to make relevance by allowing hybrid drivetrains. Amazing.
Anyway, no LFS cars have VTEC, accept for the lousy turbo model that gnerates VTEC like behavior
I think we have all strayed way off topic in this thread, the guy who originally posted this thread was just designing a civic and wanted it to be more authentic by just having a sound changeover by asking if there were any settings in lfs tweak or mechanic s2 to simulate a huge jump in power at a certain rpm which in lfs would make a sound difference since lfs's sound engine can simulate where an engine is shining or running out of breath...
is there some settings in mechanic or tweak to simulate a jump in power at a certain rpm without using a turbo? I don't think so, but correct me if I'm wrong...
if you drive the ferrari 360 modena in gtr or gtr2...you can hear a distinct changeover--and a rather loud one at that! but the gears are setup so that if you shift at redline/limiter in the game, you won't hear the changeover as it stays in that band...you have to go below the rpms again to hear it...
WAY better than VTEC. Actually, if there is an LFS tweak for version U, we could easily do it with that weirdo turbo lag that's already in existance. All the TBO cars have engines that exhibit VTEC like jumps in power(sudden surge of turbo boost) anyway. Just remember to tweak the top end powerband so that power runs all the way to the redline.
I have a Civic VTi, only 1600cc but getting 170hp.
Funny, I have beat my friends 92 mustang (3 times the displacement) down the strip in 1/4 mile, by half a car length.
I always get beat off the line of course, but VTEC does work.
My car keeps pulling all the way into 4th gear as if I was in 2nd gear. Doing the 1/4mi in under 17 secs with a 1600cc engine, well not bad, especially since my car is stock.
Yea sure, there are better technologies, but they usually involve larger engines and for the price? Which 1600cc stock engine can beat a B16A Honda Vtec engine?
Remember though, the D16 engines are also Vtec but not close to performance to the B series you find in VTi's and SI's, which are DOHC versus SOHC of the D16s. So maybe some people here have experience with the lower D16 engines on the EX's, which only give about 125hp stock.
But with the B16A, stock 168hp, someone tell me of a better stock engine for the price of my civic?
Golf GTIs are beat all the way. And those are 2000cc
With 104hp per liter, nothing cheap can beat a Honda. Thats the kind of hp/displacement performance found in high end cars.
To Jamexing, you are close to right. The stock switchover is at 5500 rpms. However with a VTec Controller, which allows to change the switchover point, and optimum point is found closer to 4200-4500rpms. The torque is still pretty bad, I don't like my 1st gear much. But it's so fun to catchup and pass. Hehe. Plus its nice to hear an engine revving at 8000rpms
that 92 mustang sounds awfully slow to be running around 17 seconds in the quarter. I think the guy couldn't drive and the mustangs of those years were one of the slowest ones ever made (power to weight ratio wise)
Nice on Jakg. Its what it is.
One thing, I am in Bogota, Colombia.
2600metres (about 8600feet) above sea level, so oxygen levels are lower, and are up to a second slower in 1/4mi than at sea level.
But even at sea level, that mustang couldn't run under 16. And I still beat him in a car that has a third of the displacement. A third! 1/3!
How much HP/Liter does a V6 mustang have? 40? If that? illepall
Try a small american engine and it drives like a skateboard. Heheh.
My friend can drive, but the Mustang is very heavy, lot of torque, but at higher gears, little power for such a big engine.
And my Civic VTi corners beautifully. Actually on the actual circuit at the same track, he has no match for the power/weight, suspension, and braking distance of my Civic. Sure he beats me out of a corner, but into and trough a corner, especially on faster sections of the circuit, gets beat.
I have raced Golf GTIs 2.0, Skoda Octavias 2.0, BMW 318s, Audi A4! (2.8L),
that one mustang, a turbo Mazda Protege, and beat all of them on the strip.
You can say that VTEC and Honda engines are crap, but the track speaks for itself. And well, you might be rich, but cars here are not cheap, and I couldn't afford an M3 or an STi. I cannot get anything close to as fast with the money I get a nice Civic.
And my car is stock. It is no wonder Civics are the No1 preferred car for tuning. There is a guy at the track that has a severly tuned Civic VTi like mine, Marlboro Red , 420hp to the ground. Out of 1600cc. Say what you may, but that's just monstrous. http://www.tucarro.com.co/anun ... arros/honda/eux-372-5.jpg
And thats a B16A2 on a VTi
Like mine -> http://www.jrautoparts.com/ima ... 6a%20OBD1%20longblock.JPG
B16A2
VTEC
1996-2000 Honda Civic VTiR (EK)
Displacement: 1595 cm3
Compression: 10.4:1
Power: 160 hp @ 7800 rpm & 113 ft·lbf (153 N·m) @ 7300 rpm
Nobody was saying Civics are crap, they are just not the best car to have for circuit racing because of not having any torque, sure you can say that YOU beat all those cars on the track with yours BUT at the end of the day thats driver ability. FYI I hope you would beat a V6 stang, they are crap and in the states are not considered a performance car at all. Even the insurance companies agree and you routinely see 16 year old girls, not boys, driving them to school every day. Now if you want to talk about V8's, the proper Mustang, thats a different story, you wouldn't stand a chance.
A855
(Hemi)
Found in: 2003-2005 Dodge SRT-4
Displacement: 2.4 liters
Power: 230BHPnot engine HP like the civic which would put brake HP around 150 for the civic (171.51kW) @ 5200 rpm and 250 ft lbf (338.57 Nm) @ 2400-4400 rpm
Transmission: 5-speed NVG T-850 manual with a quafe LSD unit
Ohh these cost less than a Type-R and they out handle them too =)
And nice specs from the Dodge. Good hp for only 2400ccs
I wouldnt know though since Dodge stopped bringing cars to Colombia. Only Chevrolet and some Ford to be found.
I lived in the states several years and you're right, a lot of girls drive those cars. And then the exception, when I had my good laugh once in a while when some short girl was driving a Corvette to school and could barely see over the steering wheel.
Here in Colombia though, American cars have been unable to compete with Japanese, European or Korean cars here dont know why. I guess price.
The french companies are just tough to beat here, with Renault, Citroen, and Peugot having a huge chunk of the market here. Then you have Honda and Toyota, and there is little space for American cars.
The reason Chevrolet is stronge here is because they have an assembly factory here in Colombia.
And well if you are gonna be charged the same for a Dodge SRT as for a Citroen C4 or a Bmw 328, or a Lancer Evolution well its not a choice really. illepall
But when it comes to muscle cars, well American of course.
Too bad you guys cant try the Renault Clio Sport in the US.
I would compare it to a very souped up version of the Focus WRC version, with 300hp, and very short wheel base. So fun on the track.
In the end, there is really no argument. They are different mentalities to car building, american versus japanese, and both have their ups or downs.
I have been racing karts and sporadic amateur formula for years now, (I even raced an amateur rally in a clio hehe) and well my Civic is just one for town.
But its edgy enough not to be boring. Sure a V8 mustang would be fun, but man my gas bill would just kill me. Hehe
And about the Neon, I've noticed its probably the No1 tuned American car. The civic counterpart. Of course there are no limits to tuning, but its not really my thing,
I prefer equali machinery and the driver to make the difference. And again we agree, being more impressed with skill than machinery, where money is the only limit.
American cars as a whole cannot compete with the Japanese =) Granted the newer american cars are much better than they were, but they still have a ways to go for the most part. Civics are great cars and you cannot beat their reliability but I would never have one for a racecar =)
Jamexing, I reread your post about your dampers, I have tokico allumina's, that Dodge put on my car factory, that are 5 way adjustable and at high compression and rebound rates the valving inside the strut releases the pressure and lets the spring oscilate creating a very smooth ride, while still being stiff. I absolutly love it, you explained why beautifully =)
Nice post!! Love the K20. Here in Colombia I'd have to pay a lot, like $40K US for an RSX.
Of course they had to be turbocharged. illepall
Michel, And the Toyota Levin engine? Supercharged buddy.
Compare to Corollas.
I sustain that no comercial car that competes pricewise with Honda has the hp/displacement for N/A engines.
And well all your examples are Japanese Michel, nice
But still subpar to Hondas.
Nissan's VVL engines are very much like Honda's VTECs, except some turbocharged. The N1? Nice. Hard to find. and discontinued.
Comparing hp/displacement, try S2000, 240hp from only 2000cc! N/A! http://www.billzilla.org/vvtvtec2.htm
And on revs, well, I've seen S2000 revving at 11,000.
About the VVT-i Toyota models to try and compete with the Honda Vtec, check this out.
I tried my friends corolla, the sports version VVT-i, and although it feels edgy in 1st gear, in higher gears it stops pulling unlike my civic, and his is a 2005 model with 1800cc, specs say 129hp, from 1800, versus 168 from my 1600.
SRTs? Well, not even worth mentioning in this context. Especially if not N/A
Yeah the AE101 is supercharged. But the AE111 isn't. Those Nissan VE engines are N/A too, so I don't get your point. But maybe you just like Honda only
Would you try and explain in your own words why systems like VVT are inferior/rubbish/old ?
I'm not saying / trying to tell that Honda or whatever is inferior or something, I'm just trying to say that it's not only Honda that makes good/reliable engines with high HP/ltr. I also don't fancy to go along with factory specs, I prefer real life experience.
Yes the 111 was not turborcharged, but as n0stra pointed out, it was a 5 cylinder, 20v version, versus 16v, 165hp, a limited edition, still beat by a non-special edition B16B.
My intial argument was that no engine manufacturer could get close to the horsepower performance by Honda for N/A engines, especially american cars.
I was just stating that Honda had better hp performance, whether a little or a lot. The S2000 for example has some F1 technology, look at engine diagrams, and its high rpm ranges are incredible for a production car.
Even my Civic redlines at 7,500 and dials stock to 10,000.
Nissan has some great engines, the Skyline is awesome, Toyota on the other hand, have had some nice cars along the way, but nothing in constant production, nothing to compete against the Civic Type R year after year.
And Michel, I dont just like Honda engines. I like engines in general. The engineering behind the performance and realiability in an engine. An engineer myself.
But since you brought up the Honda vs Toyota argument, I'll follow up and beat you all the way.
Toyota on the other hand, have had to play catch up to Honda during the last 15 years believe it or not. Even in racing. After all how many titles does Toyota have in F1 versus Honda? And the current Toyota F1 program is twice the budget of Honda with nothing to show.
And in the racing community? Its a no contest, Honda by a great margin. Nissan being a much smaller manufacturer even edges Toyota.
Besides Hondas also look much nicer than Toyotas, hehe. I heard a better version of the new NSX is on the way. Wohoo! http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/06/honda_nsx-r_front.jpg http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/02/nsxrgt05_03.jpg
So you wanna keep going at the Honda vs Toyota?
Whilst the S2000 engine in undoubtedly 'clever', it's appaling for a road engine. All revs and not much go. I'd much rather have a few less revs and a few more lb.ft. Unfortunately Honda love seeling horsepower, and seem to be using higher and higher revs to acheive this (at the expense of midrange torque).
In the real world Nissan and Toyota (for Japanese manufacturers) are far superior to Honda in terms of useability and A-B performance. All in my opinion, of course.
Dude pls stop. I can tell you're a hardcore Honda fanboy. I don't mind. But please stop talking bullshit. Since when is the 20v a 5cyl ? Last time I checked under my hood it was a 4cyl ? And does the B16 come with a Yamaha ITB's/4throttle system from factory ? I don't think so. Also the 20v was in n o way a special limited engine or whatsoever.
Have you ever seen a Blacktop 20v in real life ? Do you know why it's only 165hp from factory ? Your Civic redlines at 7500. Cool. Mine does @ 8200rpm. So what ? Is the redline something that determines the perfection from your car ? I don't think so.
Yeah sure the S2000 engine has F1 technology. Is that why it consumes more oil then gasoline ? And what about torque ?
One reason WHY I play LFS. 
Well, F-1 has become so technically restrictive now it is has fast become formula irrelevant. And those oxymorons try to make relevance by allowing hybrid drivetrains. Amazing. 
illepall 
