Movie was recorded on an Eyetoy so it sucks

if you can make it out its a stock corvette
New Rims, New Oil, Car wash (Hp is now almost 400) Economy tires

thats it.
Hope this proves some skeptics wrong

The barking, is my dog, baecause my sister and mom came home sorry,

it was hard to get viewable video under 1.95mb with WMM

by instinct i saved the car from spining but if i hadn't it would have

(you will need WMP and WIN RAR)

Could you not have put the camera any closer to the display? Can't really see anything from that, apart from a perpetually understeering corvette from a naff replay camera. I saw some tyre smoke, but not a hint of sideways-ness.

no i couldn't sorry, as i said its an Eyetoy, not made for the pc,
my Mac laptop i got from school won't recognize it and the drivers dont work so thats the best i can do at the moment

really the corner i was entering at the end had a better "slide " if u will
but my sister stepped infront of the tv.

if anybody knows how to export a replay from GT4 please let me know.

I borrowed GT4 from a friend yesterday. When I get home I'll see if I can make that Vette behave like a car

if u do it like i did u should experience what i did

i can make the video bigger but it would be more than 1.95mb

if u have a different way of transfering it i can get u a bigger one

Quote from Jeff_117 :

Movie was recorded on an Eyetoy so it sucks

if you can make it out its a stock corvette
New Rims, New Oil, Car wash (Hp is now almost 400) Economy tires

thats it.
Hope this proves some skeptics wrong

The barking, is my dog, baecause my sister and mom came home sorry,

it was hard to get viewable video under 1.95mb with WMM

by instinct i saved the car from spining but if i hadn't it would have

(you will need WMP and WIN RAR)

that was not very good driving at all .

Since when do you require special skills to make an overpowered RWD car spin out, really... isn't it's supposed to be exactly the other way around?

When I saw the bit of Top Gear, Jeremy Clarkson used exactly the right words to describe what is wrong with GT4:

"That's another thing you can do in the game; you can adjust your throttle and your brake in the middle of the corner. You try doing that in real life, you're off! wall, dead!"

That's the problem with GT4. It turns everybody into pro racing drivers.

It's about time that some developers realise that it takes much more to make a race sim than just putting the word "simulator" on the retail packaging. Customers could benefit from that realisation too.

Quote from Jertje :

Since when do you require special skills to make an overpowered RWD car spin out, really...

That's the problem with GT4. It turns everybody into pro racing drivers.

Lol and LOL.

Ask him if anyone was ever scouted for a real racing team from playing GT4. I seem to recall at least one LFS player has been.

No idea

Quote from Jeff_117 :

i should have put this in the original post that JJ72 qutoed

i depends on the specs of the Vette

Did it have 600hp with normal tires?
or 376hp with super soft tires
Suspension? Gear Ratios? Clutch Plate(s)? Transmission? Fly Wheel? Carbon Driveshaft? Weight Reduction? There are many more. as well as weight shift
some of these changes may be small but they can greatly effect the performance of the car
it depends really on the circumstances

If it was a stock Vette idk, maybe it will maybe it won't.

did the post even say he was turning the wheel??illepall

all stock, N2 tires, in the middle of a hairpin so I must be steering the car. all aids off as well.

I think it certainly will in real life, it's not that hard to break traction on tires with similiar grip to N2 in a stock corvette. weight shift is not really a factor since what makes you oversteer is the power on the rear wheel breaking the traction, putting the car sideways, the car will tend to pivot around the front outside wheel since the front is still sticking to the ground, providing much more grip compare to the spinning rear. spinning rear wheels once sideways - off the car's original direction, it practically steers the car itself because it's pushing the tail around, hence you don't actually need steering angle to maintain a power on oversteer.

if you say the front has became light because of the acceleration, you are correct but first, the car won't be accelerating very hard with the power wheels spinning, so the weight shift won't be as severe as in a normal acclerating situation, the effect on front grip is not as evident. and even a tire with light load will provide much more grip then one that is spinning.

Quote from Jeff_117 :

by instinct i saved the car from spining but if i hadn't it would have

if you want to prove you can spin it, then spin it. saying "it would have" is really not enough. I can't really see any moment you are even close to getting the car loose, the best you have is a little oversteering tendency out the corner after 3/4 of cornering spent in severe understeer.

Quote from Jertje :

Alright, I need some help from people who are able to actually put down some strong arguments which can be backed up properly.

I have a friend-of-a-friend who is absolutely convinced that GT4 (yes, Gran Turismo) is a 1:1 representation of the real world, and that there is "no way a car would drift that fast or spin that fast in real-life, as they do in LFS".

He's fairly low-tech in terms of physics-knowledge, so explaining to him that GT4 doesn't actually simulate anything at all does not work really well. Even shoving the fact that GT4 doesn't even have a clutch does not impress him. He'll still fall back to "The car still responds exactly as it should".

I've already pointed out to him that the cars in GT4 do not even actually understeer or oversteer, and that grip loss is probably calculated by some fixed formula of ''tire type * speed * angle'' or whatever.

How can I form an all-powerful, 100% success-guaranteed destructive waterfall of arguments which will cause him to stop hammering LFS for its unrealistic approach to grip, and cause him to stop worshipping GT4? In theory this should be as easy as taking candy from a baby, but for some reason he doesn't yield.

Reward for helping out will be free cookies.

In LFS I find specially street cars to spin bit slowly.

Here is sample of gear lock at braking and how it happens with street cars. Braking started at around 110kph and rear end escaped around 70kph.

If he still thinks there is not such thing as fast spinds in LFS (which I recon being bit slow) I would say he is horribly wrong and he would need to get pair of strong glasses or something

I was using a controler. Ill do it with a wheel when i get back from school
(2 hour delay, so awesome)

I never use the controler.

i'll try not to correct it

I will try to get a better video no guarantee.
I will get another video. between 3:00 and 5:00 eastern USA

Quote from Gunn :

It's about time that some developers realise that it takes much more to make a race sim than just putting the word "simulator" on the retail packaging. Customers could benefit from that realisation too.

Didn't Pole Position call itself a simulator back in it's day? =P *joke har har har*


honestly if you think GT4 is a simulator your on crack...

There is one important thing missing in LFS that will never be in the game for almost every driver... G'Forces. The road cars spin closely to RL cars, not perfect but close... the reason it seems slower in the game is because you do not have any forces acting on your body throwing it around making things appear faster.

Watch this video... http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=16167 and tell me how that is faster than in the game...

Quote from Viper93 :

Didn't Pole Position call itself a simulator back in it's day? =P *joke har har har*


honestly if you think GT4 is a simulator your on crack...

There is one important thing missing in LFS that will never be in the game for almost every driver... G'Forces. The road cars spin closely to RL cars, not perfect but close... the reason it seems slower in the game is because you do not have any forces acting on your body throwing it around making things appear faster.

Watch this video... http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=16167 and tell me how that is faster than in the game...

80Mph it says, that is quite fast and there start of spinning is already relatively slow compared to lower speed and I think that is ok in LFS, but slower speed is bit problematic, makes spinning out quite difficult actually. I'm using dfp at 900-degree mode.
You have to also understand my point of view, there is no sim that would be realistic at the moment.

Hmm, I don't know. I think one big difference from LFS to RL, besides there some things missing in LFS, is that you can alter the setup alot making a much more stable car. If you took a setup you would find on a car coming off the showroom I think you would find it much easier to spin.

I think what you could be referring to is the ablity of the tires in LFS to maintain grip well past their maximum slip angle, that would cause cars in LFS to spin slow, IMO. There I would agree that the tires in LFS grip too much past maximum slip angle. But it's not that slow in LFS as it is...

Gee guys, not sure about this. Todd posted some pretty conclusive reasons and knowledge on tire behaviour indicating that a tire really should not lose much (read: almost none) grip past their peaks - at least not without the ratio being extreme, which (laterally) would be pretty hard to acheive. I'll see if I can find it shortly.

JTBo, if you like spinning play GTR2

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Gee guys, not sure about this. Todd posted some pretty conclusive reasons and knowledge on tire behaviour indicating that a tire really should not lose much (read: almost none) grip past their peaks - at least not without the ratio being extreme, which (laterally) would be pretty hard to acheive. I'll see if I can find it shortly.

JTBo, if you like spinning play GTR2

I thought that in the end it was that LFS left a bit too much grip, not much, but a little. I don't think there is anything wrong with spinning in LFS, maybe a bit more for the racecars but the roadcars feel good =)

My understanding is that what you said is possibly true for extreme longitudinal slip situations (IE Locking up at high speeds or REALLY fast spinning tires at low (<40k?) car speeds). From what I recall from Android's lateral slip curves for LFS, LFS has a tiny peak and then a small rapid dropoff before leveling out again. From my (limited) understanding, that small peak should not exist according to available RL tire data, and Todd.

edit: And I don't see anything in JTbo's video that doesn't happen in LFS .

I just drove the Topgear Test in GT4 and got a 1'37.892
Granted i drove it with a wheel.
That NSX R (according to GT4) is amazing(and it sounds amazing). no driving aids or anything all stock. I pushed harder, and the car performed
the suspension shifted alot under braking and accelerating, and in the corners(nothing new). a lot more than i expected while shifting
As he said you cant change your speed in the middle of the corner so i didn't.
It seemed i could always go faster through T4, and T5 though
Im watching the replay now

wait... THERE IS NO DRIVER IN THE NSX
well i guess Pholphony forgot something

another one of GT4's crowning achivements:shhh: :shhh:

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

JTBo, if you like spinning play GTR2

I won't install that spyware crap to my computer ever, besides their physics are hugely off, inertia alone is like from moon or something.

Yes, I do drive some in rFactor (GTR2 is based to this engine, but I guess you all know it) and mod a lot, sometimes I do spin too, specially in badly made mods or when I suck (I do that a lot) It misses something in dynamics, even it is possible to make very close to what we think is natural when mod is done well.

I do enjoy from LFS even it has faults, everything has faults, that is why I say there is no realistic sim.

Also I don't really know why, but slow speed handling seem to be very forgiving, drifting is very very easy, just don't know why, I have not much interest of knowing why as it really does just make online racing more enjoyable.

GT4 is not a sim, that we can agree, also it was about some guy that says that in RL spins don't occure as fast as in LFS, well they do and imo even faster, some have other opinion naturally.

LFS is surely closest to realism, if there would be bit more of that sharpness or something it would be too good, I had to kidnap Scavier and torture them until I get tools to make complete mod car

Quote from JTbo :

I won't install that spyware crap to my computer ever, besides their physics are hugely off, inertia alone is like from moon or something.

Only GTR uses Starforce (thus the reason it isnt even installed on my PC anymore), GTR2 and RACE dont use it, not sure about GTL though

Quote from Jakg :

Only GTR uses Starforce (thus the reason it isnt even installed on my PC anymore), GTR2 and RACE dont use it, not sure about GTL though

No, I meant that automatic download of ads that are displayed on track, there was this known spyware company that was going to be building that part into it and any company that works together with spyware company in such way won't get my euros.

There was huge thread at RSC about this, but it was really some time ago when I last time looked into it, don't know if I can find it anymore.