Quote from Vain :

@jtw:
Did you try that procedure on several engines?
I analyzed the sound (at 7000rpm) with audacity and the FZ5/FZR flat 6 engine has only 3 different sounds over all times. Those are propably meant to simulate 2 simultaneous combustions.

Vain

I only did this for the one engine.

As far as 2 simultaneous combustions are concerned, well, I'm not aware of any car engine that does this. Every cylinder in a Harley Davidson motorcycle engine goes at the same time (which is why they pop so loud and sound like they're running so slow), but I've never heard of this being done in a car.

Quote from jtw62074 :

What I mean is if you play a sine wave on top of it you can match it as though you were humming the same note as the engine....The main pitch you hear should be....If I match a recording of this to a sine wave I get about 115Hz, about 1/3 of the right value.

Indeed I understand that. Hence when I hear a truck pull away from the loading dock - the massive I6 running around 700RPM generates eardrum throbbing waves around 37Hz according to the math. Which is right, as I would've guessed 35hz (It's pretty easy to guess frequencies 25-80Hz from years of car audio acoustics study). What I'm wondering is what causes the characteristic "whup whup" sound as you described that makes it easy to differentiate once engine from the next... In LFS, driving the FZ50 along like a normal car, it sounds almost perfect... 6 gear, 120Km/h steady sounds right, and you can hear the base frequency... But once the revs are high, the "other" sound seems to take over and it becomes too one-dimentional, which might explain why the frequencies look wrong... Am I making any sense?

Just wanted to share my thoughts about the new sounds.

The gearshift and transmission sounds are a welcome additions and add to the immersion. The gearshift sounds are very nice, but should be tad quieter for the road cars. The transmission sounds could be improved. When the car is maintaining constant speed it should make a sort of 'shaky' sound. Also the sound should be more 'rougher' when using engine braking.

The engine sounds are quite a difference to before. I'm not sure if I prefer them or not. They sound more organic I suppose. The main things I noticed are the way the sound changes as the throttle is opened and closed. Especially with the LX6. I'm very impressed with this and it sounds very real. However the race cars just don't sound 'throaty'. They are too smooth. No racing sim (not even GTR) makes that distinctive rasp that an unsilenced exhaust when you open the throttle but I'm hopeful LFS will be the first to achieve this.

Quote from jtw62074 :

I only did this for the one engine.

Every cylinder in a Harley Davidson motorcycle engine goes at the same time (which is why they pop so loud and sound like they're running so slow), but I've never heard of this being done in a car.

Actually they're 45 degress apart instead of waiting for the next revolution, which is why it sounds and runs like a piece of sh*t (Vrod is different, since they realized that they couldn't really make an engine so they asked Porsche )

Quote from jtw62074 :

but I've never heard of this being done in a car.

I've never heard of such a thing either - seems unlogical from an engineering point of view, because you want to decrease vibrations in the crankshaft to achieve high revs. Until you made that point I was guessing that the right and left bank of the flat 6 engine were sharing the same combustion sounds in LFS.
(Which isn't senseful either, but it would have fitted the complexity of LFS's current engine sound simulation.)

[Edit] Could this be the reason why the BF1 sounds as if it was running at a lot lower revs? Just a thought I had 5 seconds ago.

Vain

Quote from Vain :

I've never heard of such a thing either - seems unlogical from an engineering point of view, because you want to decrease vibrations in the crankshaft to achieve high revs. Until you made that point I was guessing that the right and left bank of the flat 6 engine were sharing the same combustion sounds in LFS.
(Which isn't senseful either, but it would have fitted the complexity of LFS's current engine sound simulation.)

[Edit] Could this be the reason why the BF1 sounds as if it was running at a lot lower revs? Just a thought I had 5 seconds ago.

Vain

In no engine would you ever fire cylinders at the same time because they could not be at proper the place in their cycle! (Unless you had an inline engine where all the pistons run an identical cycle). In any other arrangement this would be pretty tough to do without "undoing" the work of other cylinders***....

But like you said Vain, & Todd, it seems like LFS is missing the fundamental frequency especially at higher revs...

***without enough cylinders to make some wierd redunant arrangement....

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

In no engine would you ever fire cylinders at the same time because they could not be at proper the place in their cycle! (Unless you had an inline engine where all the pistons run an identical cycle). In any other arrangement this would be pretty tough to do without "undoing" the work of other cylinders....

But like you said Vain, & Todd, it seems like LFS is missing the fundamental frequency especially at higher revs...

I'm pretty sure that Cadillac had such an engine. They've produced several V16 engine models and I believe that at least one of them (probably most or all) was basically two V8s. In that case you would have two cylinders firing at once unless they engineered them to be offset from one another.

In any case, it's a very rare occurrance indeed.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Actually they're 45 degress apart instead of waiting for the next revolution, which is why it sounds and runs like a piece of sh*t (Vrod is different, since they realized that they couldn't really make an engine so they asked Porsche )

It's not just that they're 45* apart, but that both cylinders share a common crankpin. Not exactly the brightest idea ever, but you know how people just love that potato-potato sound.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Indeed I understand that. Hence when I hear a truck pull away from the loading dock - the massive I6 running around 700RPM generates eardrum throbbing waves around 37Hz according to the math. Which is right, as I would've guessed 35hz (It's pretty easy to guess frequencies 25-80Hz from years of car audio acoustics study). What I'm wondering is what causes the characteristic "whup whup" sound as you described that makes it easy to differentiate once engine from the next... In LFS, driving the FZ50 along like a normal car, it sounds almost perfect... 6 gear, 120Km/h steady sounds right, and you can hear the base frequency... But once the revs are high, the "other" sound seems to take over and it becomes too one-dimentional, which might explain why the frequencies look wrong... Am I making any sense?

The whup whup sound are pressure variations in the exhaust. At the simplest level it's each cylinder "bang." At a more complex level it's the cylinder bang in combination with the dynamics caused by other cylinders also operating into the same pipe. I.e., the wave form can change with engine speed quite a bit in reality.

What causes the particular whup whup? Everything about the engine. Primarily what you hear is exhaust, so it's a combination of cylinder pressure at exhaust valve opening (along with any waves that might be travelling too/from the cylinder at that point), valve timing, exhaust dimensions and how they're linked together. I suspect the presence of shock waves is what gives really nasty engines like alcohol dragsters and so on the really radical crackling type of sound versus the more tame note you get from other engines.

Not sure if that answers your question properly...

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Actually they're 45 degress apart instead of waiting for the next revolution, which is why it sounds and runs like a piece of sh*t (Vrod is different, since they realized that they couldn't really make an engine so they asked Porsche )

Ah, ok. Thanks.

Quote from jamesgp2viper :

. The main things I noticed are the way the sound changes as the throttle is opened and closed. Especially with the LX6.

Yes, I noticed this and like it too. The variations in sound with throttle changes are much nicer than before. Before (to me anyway) it seemed nonexistent pretty much. Now it's quite nice.

Quote from jamesgp2viper :

Just wanted to share my thoughts about the new sounds.

The gearshift and transmission sounds are a welcome additions and add to the immersion. The gearshift sounds are very nice, but should be tad quieter for the road cars. The transmission sounds could be improved. When the car is maintaining constant speed it should make a sort of 'shaky' sound. Also the sound should be more 'rougher' when using engine braking....

Hmm good point - could the lack of a 'shaky' slightly varying note be related to discussions here on the forum a while back about lack of 'play' in the drive-chain. At the time some of the issues with grip were being partly attributed to the lack of play in the drive chain and mounting points in LFS that would exist in real life... I wonder if this also has an impact on the audio characteristics...

When you say the h-shifter doesnt work in a single seater, do you mean just cars like the MRT, BF1 etc?

Scawen, if you want to try some engine vibration to see how that sounds it's pretty simple. If the wave form you are using is a function of crank angle, then you could have a 1D rotational model (torque/angular momentum/velocity only) alter the crank angle that you're looking up. I.e., have an offset to the real crank angle that itself varies as the engine rocks back and forth a couple of degrees in its mounts and use that to reference the sound instead. I tried this awhile back and it was fairly convincing. It's realistic too because that's what the real engine is doing. I.e., the crank speed is essentially changing from one instant to the next as the block vibrates. That might spruce up things just a tiny bit and is an easy addition.

Quote from jtw62074 :

The whup whup sound are pressure variations in the exhaust. At the simplest level it's each cylinder "bang." At a more complex level it's the cylinder bang in combination with the dynamics caused by other cylinders also operating into the same pipe. I.e., the wave form can change with engine speed quite a bit in reality.

What causes the particular whup whup? Everything about the engine. Primarily what you hear is exhaust, so it's a combination of cylinder pressure at exhaust valve opening (along with any waves that might be travelling too/from the cylinder at that point), valve timing, exhaust dimensions and how they're linked together. I suspect the presence of shock waves is what gives really nasty engines like alcohol dragsters and so on the really radical crackling type of sound versus the more tame note you get from other engines.

Not sure if that answers your question properly...

Hmmm... It always seemed to me like the "whup whup" (technical term) seemed to coincide with the timing of "one cylinder", but that's probably wrong now that I think about it.... At any rate, the greater the heat & pressure differential between a cylinder with the exhast valve about to open, and the outside air - the greater the crack is going to be... So in a super high compression 7000HP alchohol beast, that's going to be significant... Even more so since the "exhaust" system consists of a couple of feet of pipe on each cylinder , and no pulse interaction to cancel any energy...

Quote from col :

lack of play in the drive chain and mounting points in LFS that would exist in real life... I wonder if this also has an impact on the audio characteristics...

Definitely!

one thing i notice...i guess this wasnt in U32.When i do a qualifying there is no minimap because the results just seem to be layed over it. Before the map used to switch the side of the screen so it wont get blocked,but it doesnt do that anymore so i have to switch it manually when qualifying....Please fix that
I love the new sound by the way
S0ul

A request.

Does the system overwrite the old file always without asking? Is it possible that the user could choose not to update/overwrite textures or sounds for example? After all, I don't want to manually update it just because it may or may not replace something I don't want to be replaced.

I am not talking about the test patches

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Hmmm... It always seemed to me like the "whup whup" (technical term) seemed to coincide with the timing of "one cylinder", but that's probably wrong now that I think about it....

For the most part, yes, that's indeed right. That should be the predominate thing you hear, especially at low speeds. At higher speeds you can get some resonances and things on top of it, but they're relatively minor probably for the most part.

Quote :

At any rate, the greater the heat & pressure differential between a cylinder with the exhast valve about to open, and the outside air - the greater the crack is going to be... So in a super high compression 7000HP alchohol beast, that's going to be significant... Even more so since the "exhaust" system consists of a couple of feet of pipe on each cylinder , and no pulse interaction to cancel any energy...

Right, exactly.

The 7000HP nitro cars though are sort of a different breed as they appear to continue burning fuel in the exhaust system even after the exhaust valves have closed. I'm not 100% sure that that really happens though, so don't quote me on it :-p But if they are indeed doing so, that certainly changes the exhaust pressures too.

I think I found a bug. When finding a user with the "Find user online" button, who is online at a S1 host, it does not come up with the "Join bla at this host?" message, but it says "User is online on a S1 host". While I'm able to join the host from the S1 list.

I never tinkered a lot with sets, but lately I'm getting into it. Has it always been that you can't define ride height by right clicking it? Sorry if this didn't belong here..

I haven't uploaded any of the test patchs, still running u.05 ( i believe )...the last big update.

I've only been reading about the patches of late, and am confused about the auto update.

Where do you see this ? Do I have to load previous test patches to try 33 ?

If i copy my LFS folder to a second folder, I'll just use one unlock for the U33 update, and can delete that folder if I want to revert to the old version I've been playing - is this correct ?

Anyway, with the rumors of a non-test patch coming, I've been hesitant to try the test patches for whatever reason. I do fear they big patch might be a bit longer in it's release, if there are troubles ( not complaining, this is how it should be handled, imho)...I would like to try U33, but not lose the ability to revert easily.

Sorry, I'm out of the loop, just looking for info that I don't think is clear in the thread.

Quote from Sp3cTr3 :

where can I see whats changed in u33?

Autoupdater worked like a charm

First post.

Quote from S0ul :

one thing i notice...i guess this wasnt in U32.When i do a qualifying there is no minimap because the results just seem to be layed over it. Before the map used to switch the side of the screen so it wont get blocked,but it doesnt do that anymore so i have to switch it manually when qualifying....Please fix that
I love the new sound by the way
S0ul

It's not a bug, it's a feature!

U32: Small map is now never shown on the left if right is selected

BF1 sounds much more fun! I just drove a 3 lap single player, then watched the replay track-side.

There definitely needs to be less (i.e. almost no) wind noise, track-side. As the BF1 goes past, I heard wind noise as if I were in the car, but that's not right because.. well.. my ears aren't moving through the air, and the wind bluster should be relative to the motion of the driver or spectator rather than the car's motion/speed.

Apart from that, although I agree with Tristan that the engine is more "screamy" in-car than I'd have expected, it definitely sounds much more like it did at Donington when watching the Renault F1 go for a romp. Big up!

Quote from Gimpster :

As a point of reference here is a link to a video of a honda S2000 equiped for performance. 2L inline 4, IRTB intake, tuned exhaust. This is what a track prepped street car can sound like. When I get the coin I am doing this to my miata.

Enjoy, and hope LFS can sound this good.

http://videos.streetfire.net/P ... 6B-4C36-92B3-88AD7020C61A

I had a 1991 Honda Jazz and when I bought it it had a 1.0 litre engine in the engine bay. As soon as the engine reached 4,500 rpm it turned into a different beast and sounded very similar to that car. The car redlined @ 7,500rpm and topped out @ 134mph.The person that sold me the car was after buying the car for his wife but she was afraid to drive it cause it was too powerful. Needless to say I bought it.

PS> Could we have a check for updates button in LFS so that when we go to play online we dont get the updates screen whenever theres a new update. Also look @ http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=289986#post289986