Quote from SamH :

I'll be perfectly honest, if I ever saw you take someone out deliberately to gain a place, you'd be banned on the spot. My definition of a wrecker is exactly what you're describing That kind of behaviour is exactly the kind of behaviour that I won't tolerate on a server that I administrate on.. wilfully manipulating the outcome of a race by means other than fair racing.

[edit] Do you mean you won't regret it if it happens by accident, or that you'd do it deliberately? It sounds like you'd be quite willing to allow it to happen, by "accident".

If someone is slower than I am, I make it a point to avoid touching them. Like earlier I was racing Danowat, and he was consistently braking 10 meters too early for my style. Gave him some lovetaps on the first lap, but after that it was anywhere between 5 to 30 cm between us on hard braking. Never touching. We could do that because we were both very consistent in our braking marks and turn in points. I would've regretted it very much if we had touched and crashed because I wasn't in control enough (in the end we wrecked because on SO3, there is no room for error, and the wall is unforgiving, neither of us at fault, just one of them racing deals). Best chase I've had in a loooong time.

However, if I'm behind someone that is consistently slower than I am, being an absolute b**tch about defending his/her spot to the point I'm the only one trying not to crash it seems, there may come a point where I'm less inclined to screw up my front tires trying to miss him/her. If it was a calculated move on the other's side I'd have some respect for it. Like, when I dive down the inside for the 5th time on the brakes for the same turn, you'd think someone would block the inside before I had time to go there and make me take the long way around, but they amazingly only move offline when my nose is already at their rear wheel, making me do all kinds of crazy things to keep them from wrecking themselves. In THOSE cases, I'm not sorry one bit if I spin someone out. There's an art to overtaking, but the same goes for defending your spot.

I think everyone has had these situations where overtaking someone becomes the single most important thing in the world after you've been stuck behind them for 90% of the race. Stuff like this happens in real racing too. They get a good scuffing from the FIA (if you're Schumacher) or a fine (if you're Alonso), or get suspended because you do this stuff all the time (if you're Montoya). The difference between them and us is that we would be hard pressed to kill someone in LFS.

I think (hope) that that's what Flippy is describing.

I don`t have a preprogrammed button, for the sorry thing. If I make a mistake, I wait for the opponent, to pass me, and then I say sorry. If it was a big mistake, I press the garage button, to show my regrets

Sorry isn`t enough, you HAVE to show that you are sorry. Way to many people just press "sorry" and go on. In my book, they are not sorry.

I have no nuttons for the cars horn either. Who, out there, have ever seen a racecar with a horn !? People using their horns in a race, should get kicked instantly - If they do it again, ban them

Last time I hit someone on purpose was, I think, after he hit me for gaining the position on me, nope, sorry, you can ban me for it afterwards, I won't be sorry for spinning him.

And yes, I did mean by accident. But I mean like when the heat is really on for the last few laps, been behind someone so long, isn't it normal you're going to risk some more? When I take one of those risks, and the other one gets thrown back a bit, I won't be sorry, but no, I'm not going to take him out on purpose. Hope that clears it up a bit.

I hope there isn't anyone out here that can give me an example where I did something really bad

*looks scared at Tristan... I didn't hit you for it! I just got annoyed *

Quote from TagForce :

If someone is slower than I am, I make it a point to avoid touching them. Like earlier I was racing Danowat, and he was consistently braking 10 meters too early for my style. Gave him some lovetaps on the first lap, but after that it was anywhere between 5 to 30 cm between us on hard braking. Never touching. We could do that because we were both very consistent in our braking marks and turn in points. I would've regretted it very much if we had touched and crashed because I wasn't in control enough (in the end we wrecked because on SO3, there is no room for error, and the wall is unforgiving, neither of us at fault, just one of them racing deals). Best chase I've had in a loooong time.

However, if I'm behind someone that is consistently slower than I am, being an absolute b**tch about defending his/her spot to the point I'm the only one trying not to crash it seems, there may come a point where I'm less inclined to screw up my front tires trying to miss him/her. If it was a calculated move on the other's side I'd have some respect for it. Like, when I dive down the inside for the 5th time on the brakes for the same turn, you'd think someone would block the inside before I had time to go there and make me take the long way around, but they amazingly only move offline when my nose is already at their rear wheel, making me do all kinds of crazy things to keep them from wrecking themselves. In THOSE cases, I'm not sorry one bit if I spin someone out. There's an art to overtaking, but the same goes for defending your spot.

I think everyone has had these situations where overtaking someone becomes the single most important thing in the world after you've been stuck behind them for 90% of the race. Stuff like this happens in real racing too. They get a good scuffing from the FIA (if you're Schumacher) or a fine (if you're Alonso), or get suspended because you do this stuff all the time (if you're Montoya). The difference between them and us is that we would be hard pressed to kill someone in LFS.

I think (hope) that that's what Flippy is describing.

Aye, diving towards the apex when someone's already slightly alongside you is not blocking, it's just a good way to get yourself taken out. Passing and blocking should be like a chess game where you think several moves ahead and attempt to outsmart the other guy. Not, "Oh crap, he has a chance to pass me! I better shoot towards the inside and hope nothing bad happens!" Took someone out earlier on the STCC server when I was just trying to rattle his cage by moving to the inside while right behind him, he brakes a little too early and I try to brake with him to no avail to avoid a dive bombing pass in a bad area and end up braking at the limit just barely ahead of his rear bumper. He ignores my presence and goes straight for the apex and spins himself out on my front bumper and proceeds to call me a wrecker after I had already waited for him to get back on his feet and drive by admitting partial fault in the accident.

Firstly i'll appologise for not reading the whole thread (or even the whole post i'm going to quite), but I saw this,

Quote :

if I'm behind someone that is consistently slower than I am

As a point of fact, I can be 0.01 of a second slower than somebody and watch them catch me for laps - but when they finaly catch me I may well be 2-3 seconds a lap slower.

The reason is simply that I will quite merrily drive defensively if I do not think I can improve my position, and defensive driving doesnt meen sticking to the fastest line, otherwise i'd still be losing that 0.01 of a second. It meens holding up the car behind, and that meens driving offline, braking in different places, being inconsistent and setting up switchbacks. All of which effect lap time.

Of course i'm quite happy to keep up the pace if I think there are others ahead who I can catch, but I think drivers need to be aware there's more than one way to skin a cat, personally, I use vinegar.

When I say consistently slower, it means I hadn't really had a problem of catching up to them (meaning they should be driving fast, alone, and trying to get away from the pack). And I notice I have to brake every corner because I would be going faster, although I can see they're trying to get away, but just can't.

Ever been behind someone you couldn't pass, but that had a pb slower than your average?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

If a driver I'm trying to pass moves to the inside to defend before a corner, and I stay outside and end up with a very slight overlap (even just my front bumper ahead of his rear bumper), and then the defensive driver decides to move back to the outside of the track to give himself the full width of the road for the corner is it my fault if he clips my car and gets pitched off the road?

I see it this way. If I keep my line and possibly spin him/her out I am also putting myself into position where the chances are that I can only lose. Was it broken suspension, spin or just tiny tap means nothing because the risk is there. The more you have these little taps the more chances of getting into dangerous situations.

(Don't listen to me )

EDIT: Oh, you were talking about passing. Optimistic today, kev?

Quote from Hyperactive :

EDIT: Oh, you were talking about passing. Optimistic today, kev?

LOL

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Well, that shut you all up.

:faint2:

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Speaking of racing etiquette: There's one situation I'm never sure about that seems to happen to me quite often, that is perhaps worth discussing:

If a driver I'm trying to pass moves to the inside to defend before a corner, and I stay outside and end up with a very slight overlap (even just my front bumper ahead of his rear bumper), and then the defensive driver decides to move back to the outside of the track to give himself the full width of the road for the corner is it my fault if he clips my car and gets pitched off the road?

I usually lift early before the corner anyway (no point causing an accident if he moves outside, and if he does stay inside there's no point having to wait for him to go around the corner before I can enter it), but I just wondered how "proper" racers would view an incident like that.

In this case it's in fact easier to put the blame on you, since there's no way he can possibly see you. He's turning away from your car, and so you are most definitely in his blind spot. He can't tell if you're overlapping or not.

Besides, getting into a situation where you're committed to a line that will take him through you when he loses control isn't a smart thing to do... In these cases I'll just brake a bit harder, slow down more, and pull the switchback on him (accelerate out of the corner on the inside). That's the only safe thing to do.

EDIT:
I keep forgetting about the multiquote thing:

Quote from Becky Rose :

As a point of fact, I can be 0.01 of a second slower than somebody and watch them catch me for laps - but when they finaly catch me I may well be 2-3 seconds a lap slower.

The reason is simply that I will quite merrily drive defensively if I do not think I can improve my position, and defensive driving doesnt meen sticking to the fastest line, otherwise i'd still be losing that 0.01 of a second. It meens holding up the car behind, and that meens driving offline, braking in different places, being inconsistent and setting up switchbacks. All of which effect lap time.

Of course i'm quite happy to keep up the pace if I think there are others ahead who I can catch, but I think drivers need to be aware there's more than one way to skin a cat, personally, I use vinegar.

Ah, I know what you mean, but why would you drive defensive lines when there's nobody near you? If you're doing it to save tires I can understand, but that's the only reason I can see. I don't care if I'm quicker than you are. If you're defending in a way that gets us both in situations that are inpredictable we may end up spinning eachother out. I know you're smart enough to make sure I don't get to the inside after I've done it twice, but not everyone sees that. And that's the ones that can expect to be spun out (accidentally).

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I'll get you next time!



Well he already knows I'm there because he moved inside to defend the corner - if I'm not in his mirror I must be behind and to the outside. You're right that he can't tell whether there's an overlap but it's hard for me to tell because he's off to one side and my view might be obscured by a pillar or whatever.

I agree it's best to just back out - which is what I do if the other driver gives me time (ie: not a quick "chop" back towards the kerb) - but by deciding late that he wants all the road when he knew I was close behind and catching him he's asking for trouble.

Yup... Kind of the same situation I described earlier. Still your fault, but can't really blame either of you. Racing Incident. Stuff like this will always happen (but it gives you such an adrenaline rush if you make the move stick and pass around the outside).

I'd love to see this in an F1 race; 1 driver wrecks another, and holds up a big multicoloured "SORRY" sign while he drives on. I have a sorry mapped, I only used it when I accidently wreck a decent racer, if they're a noob I don't bother.

At Kev:
It's the one move rule. If he moved from the line to defend the inside line, he cannot move back across to the other side again. It would be his fault entirely.
It's something of a grey area when you consider the racing line might be a diagonal from lefthandside of the track out of a right hander to righthandside for the next left hander, and if you know or expect someone ahead of you might follow that line then I guess you should be prepared to lift (and duck to the inside and lunge into the next corner )

That said I tend to place all blame for accidents on straight sections of road on the one that changed his line/swerved/moved across the track and I also really hate when people who move (as they are entitled to) to defend the inside ignore the one-defensive-move rule and swerve back to block the outside really late, whilst I brake later on the outside line (as I am entitled to), and then they complain if they get tapped from behind.

Quote from sinbad :

At Kev:
It's the one move rule. If he moved from the line to defend the inside line, he cannot move back across to the other side again. It would be his fault entirely.
It's something of a grey area when you consider the racing line might be a diagonal from lefthandside of the track out of a right hander to righthandside for the next left hander, and if you know or expect someone ahead of you might follow that line then I guess you should be prepared to lift (and duck to the inside and lunge into the next corner )

That said I tend to place all blame for accidents on straight sections of road on the one that changed his line/swerved/moved across the track and I also really hate when people who move (as they are entitled to) to defend the inside ignore the one-defensive-move rule and swerve back to block the outside really late, whilst I brake later on the outside line (as I am entitled to), and then they complain if they get tapped from behind.

Under most rules I've seen you're allowed to block getting back on the racing line.

TBH, I expect a "sorry" immediately from a racer who makes me significantly lose time / places due to an erroneous decision, because it shows s/he has acknowledged his/her mistake. As much as I have tried in the past to think that "maybe s/he will say sorry at the end of the race", I will be pissed off if it doesn't happen immediately. It's just the way I am, nothing more, Even though I *know* the person who offended me, I'll be angry at not getting an apology immediately.

/me must learn to type whilst drunk

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

TBH, I expect a "sorry" immediately from a racer who makes me significantly lose time / places due to an erroneous decision, because it shows s/he has acknowledged his/her mistake. As much as I have tried in the past to think that "maybe s/he will say sorry at the end of the race", I will be pissed off if it doesn't happen immediately. It's just the way I am, nothing more, Even though I *know* the person who offended me, I'll be angry at not getting an apology immediately.

/me must learn to type whilst drunk

Ok, I was going to point you to the thread where this post would be on-topic dealing with mapping a sorry button...
But this is it. :dunce::twirl:

Quote from rcpilot :

Under most rules I've seen you're allowed to block getting back on the racing line.

Depends how far in front you are I suppose, but you're allowed to zig, or zag, but not zig-zag. You can also zig, and then zig again too, assuming it's safe to

I thought the one-move rule was fairly common knowledge, it's what I've always driven to anyway, and if you do some searching you'll find lots, lots, of real racers who do the same.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

TBH, I expect a "sorry" immediately from a racer who makes me significantly lose time / places due to an erroneous decision, because it shows s/he has acknowledged his/her mistake. As much as I have tried in the past to think that "maybe s/he will say sorry at the end of the race", I will be pissed off if it doesn't happen immediately. It's just the way I am, nothing more, Even though I *know* the person who offended me, I'll be angry at not getting an apology immediately.

You are not alone.

Quote from TagForce :

Ok, I was going to point you to the thread where this post would be on-topic dealing with mapping a sorry button...
But this is it. :dunce::twirl:

Quite very drunk, aye, but not enough so to post in an entirely wrong thread

Quote from sinbad :

Depends how far in front you are I suppose, but you're allowed to zig, or zag, but not zig-zag. You can also zig, and then zig again too, assuming it's safe to

I thought the one-move rule was fairly common knowledge, it's what I've always driven to anyway, and if you do some searching you'll find lots, lots, of real racers who do the same.

I always laugh when someone starts zig-zag'ing to avoid a tow and I just sit in one spot and watch as they slowly move back towards me because of bleeding off speed by covering more distance than they had to and tire scrub.

Quote from sinbad :

Depends how far in front you are I suppose, but you're allowed to zig, or zag, but not zig-zag. You can also zig, and then zig again too, assuming it's safe to

I thought the one-move rule was fairly common knowledge, it's what I've always driven to anyway, and if you do some searching you'll find lots, lots, of real racers who do the same.

:iagree: well almost
I have always understood the rule as you are allowed to move once off "the line" to block, and could also move back to original "line". This said I think its obvious when someone is in a so-named blind spot then safer to say there could be an overlap and not to move back.
I try to always leave enough room on inside and outside for another car so as not to enter into the situation in the first place, then go for a repass on next section.


SD.

i use "sorry man" if i accidentaly bump someone, but if theres much more trouble caused by me, i explain the details and apologise

Quote from tristancliffe :

I've done the staring competition thing too! Very amusing, especially in the cars which require very little braking for T3 - who can hold the stare longest, even after the 100m board!

I love that! My problem is I start cracking up and give it up...

Anyway a ton of good points here on both sides, I'm considering changing the binds I have used in the past...

If only we could stick our tongues out when looking to make the other guy crack .

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Out through the visor? Are you Gene Simmons or something?

Only the ladies know the answer to that one .