Good choice to avoid R2P, Becky! ^^ 
National Auto Sport Association Embraces Sanctioned Sim Racing With Race2play
(229 posts, started )
"I am simply blown away that you can be so pompous (and I though I was bad), ignorant, and so blind to reality about me, R2P, sim-racers, sim-community, and even the WORLD as a whole. How you grew past an infant is surely the 8th wonder of the world. Your parents must have been miracle workers and I commend them in all areas other then teaching you the traits of humility and respect, which you most certainly lack."
She was going to be helping you make a tool that YOU would make money off, but she not only wouldn't, but also it would cost her a lot of time. She (quite understandibly) wanted something in return for this, and you offered nothing.
Any credibility or respect you may of had was just lost in one post
She was going to be helping you make a tool that YOU would make money off, but she not only wouldn't, but also it would cost her a lot of time. She (quite understandibly) wanted something in return for this, and you offered nothing.
Any credibility or respect you may of had was just lost in one post
Umm.. as Shakespeare would say.. a hit. A very palpable hit.
All I can say, Tim, is that your post does nothing for your standing in this community. More to the point, in a single post I think you've positively decimated it.
Your post does nothing to raise the credibility of R2P (with which I still wish you the best). It does you no favours at all. If you could have qualified any portion or element with something other than what appears to be wholly subjective obstinacy and an outburst akin to an infantile tantrum, perhaps it would read better. As it is, though, it's really just confirming KiD's and Becky's stance.
All in all, Tim, not remotely suitable for LFS.
All I can say, Tim, is that your post does nothing for your standing in this community. More to the point, in a single post I think you've positively decimated it.
Your post does nothing to raise the credibility of R2P (with which I still wish you the best). It does you no favours at all. If you could have qualified any portion or element with something other than what appears to be wholly subjective obstinacy and an outburst akin to an infantile tantrum, perhaps it would read better. As it is, though, it's really just confirming KiD's and Becky's stance.
All in all, Tim, not remotely suitable for LFS.
Hahahahaha, WOW!
Your whole post can be condensed into "My e-penis is longer!!1"
What a grandiose way to pull the peg on a sinking ship! Now hush hush, back to :RSC:
Your whole post can be condensed into "My e-penis is longer!!1"
What a grandiose way to pull the peg on a sinking ship! Now hush hush, back to :RSC:
Perhaps we should start a community poll, "Who is the least influential and most miss-guided member of the sim racing community?"
Victor van Vlaardingen
Oji whatever his name his
Tim McArthur
Votes everyone?
Victor van Vlaardingen
Oji whatever his name his
Tim McArthur
Votes everyone?
How about "no"?
bah humbug !
I was reading Tim's post above and was half way through the first paragraph. I thought I was in for a good laugh, but then the power tripped and after I reset, the post was already edited. 
Android's synopsis is very good... And a lot funnier.
It was basically a summation of "I did this, and you didn't (well, I dunno, but I'm assuming you didn't).
I have it stored as an historical document, and will PM you it.
It was posted to this thread in the first instance, and you therefore have an entitlement to read its content, but in the interests of concluding this thread I'm asking you not to respond further to it.
It was posted to this thread in the first instance, and you therefore have an entitlement to read its content, but in the interests of concluding this thread I'm asking you not to respond further to it.
Thanks!Bloody hell, when I started reading this thread it only had 3 pages! At the risk of starting the flame war again, here's my 2 cents for what they're worth... Er...that would be 2 cents
I was going to post with my comments on how remarkably similar R2P sounds to a sim-specific Gamespy, but I decided not to bother. Oh, oops.
Since I seem to be at the mercy of the edit button concerning most of Tim's posts (all those edits can't be typos, can they?), I'm not really sure exactly what's going on with regards to the argument. If it's all about stat logging and skin trading, then LFS definitely doesn't need it.
As an extra place to look for races and tournaments, that's not so bad, but they are then competing with (among others) the ESL, which is long established. And of course, the above mentioned Gamespy. I hate it as much as everyone else does, but that's another matter
Now, to get back onto the current argument (or at least the current one when I started typing!), the LFS community is very close-knit. I think we tend to band together in a defensive way because it's a small development team with a small following, and we risk being overwhelmed by the massive numbers of games claiming to be sims by large companies.
At the same time, I'm not a hardcore LFS fanboy like a lot of the people here. I play other games. It's no secret that I also enjoy the totally non-sim TOCA3 and I did have rFactor installed for a while, which although unrealistic, I did enjoy the single player. My computer won't run RBR/GTR/GTR2/Race or most newer games (I've tried and it's horrible frame rate death) so LFS is ideal for me, even if I do suck at it.
I would also appreciate a PM of all of the original unedited posts from this thread, just to satisfy my own curiosity and see what the hell took us from "R2P is a new thing, join us" to "I couldn't get people to do the work for me, you all suck".
I was going to post with my comments on how remarkably similar R2P sounds to a sim-specific Gamespy, but I decided not to bother. Oh, oops.
Since I seem to be at the mercy of the edit button concerning most of Tim's posts (all those edits can't be typos, can they?), I'm not really sure exactly what's going on with regards to the argument. If it's all about stat logging and skin trading, then LFS definitely doesn't need it.
As an extra place to look for races and tournaments, that's not so bad, but they are then competing with (among others) the ESL, which is long established. And of course, the above mentioned Gamespy. I hate it as much as everyone else does, but that's another matter
Now, to get back onto the current argument (or at least the current one when I started typing!), the LFS community is very close-knit. I think we tend to band together in a defensive way because it's a small development team with a small following, and we risk being overwhelmed by the massive numbers of games claiming to be sims by large companies.
At the same time, I'm not a hardcore LFS fanboy like a lot of the people here. I play other games. It's no secret that I also enjoy the totally non-sim TOCA3 and I did have rFactor installed for a while, which although unrealistic, I did enjoy the single player. My computer won't run RBR/GTR/GTR2/Race or most newer games (I've tried and it's horrible frame rate death) so LFS is ideal for me, even if I do suck at it.
I would also appreciate a PM of all of the original unedited posts from this thread, just to satisfy my own curiosity and see what the hell took us from "R2P is a new thing, join us" to "I couldn't get people to do the work for me, you all suck".
I think I've missed some of Tim's edited posts and of course haven't seen the behind the scenes PMs which may have been why some of Becky's posts seemed out of context.
I still think a R2P type service has potential for integrating LFS into the sim community, ending this isolationist nonsense and more importantly attracting good clean racers from other sims.
Unfortunately it seems that the third most popular sim personality of 2005 seems to have gone about this the wrong way, then again he was bloody minded to say the very least when he ignored Papy and managed to get taken to court.
I still think a R2P type service has potential for integrating LFS into the sim community, ending this isolationist nonsense and more importantly attracting good clean racers from other sims.
Unfortunately it seems that the third most popular sim personality of 2005 seems to have gone about this the wrong way, then again he was bloody minded to say the very least when he ignored Papy and managed to get taken to court.
Damnit...I wake up to find I missed the ONE post I would have wanted to read... hey it's my birthday today...can I get a PM of that message Tim edited?
Hold on... Papy has always been supportive of mods, to the point there was one group of people that were actively working together with them (indeed some of them were (former) employees) to create mods and add-ons (Project WildFire). Then all of a sudden Papy is gone, iRacing is formed, and people are forbidden to use the same mods and stuff and create new ones? As it turned out, PW and Papy kind of merged into iRacing, and now they are thinking about making a shitload of money, and part of that plan is to deny their previously free stuff to the general public. Well, they were too late for that, and the whole deal went off like a bomb. I'm not saying Tim's threats towards papy (iRacing) about releasing all the source code he had access to was very smart, but iRacing's sudden 180 on NR2003S was sure to backfire on them one way or another. At the time, it was a lot of bad publicity. Don't know how many people actually remember any of it.
I remember at the time supporting him on principle but thinking that he was very stupid to ignore all the warning signs and end up in court.
Fir$t/iRacing did manage to kill off a lot of potential for the N2003 community stopping the NASCAR 1970, JGTC, funny car, historic Le Mans and other mods being released. I doubt they've actually helped themselves in the long run seeing as they could have (IMO) significantly reduced rFs popularity if N2003 was available to mod (and due to difficulty restricted to those who worked to a high quality) with Papys physics. Instead they've just let rF take iRacings sales and made themselves very unpopular.
Fir$t/iRacing did manage to kill off a lot of potential for the N2003 community stopping the NASCAR 1970, JGTC, funny car, historic Le Mans and other mods being released. I doubt they've actually helped themselves in the long run seeing as they could have (IMO) significantly reduced rFs popularity if N2003 was available to mod (and due to difficulty restricted to those who worked to a high quality) with Papys physics. Instead they've just let rF take iRacings sales and made themselves very unpopular.
I'm completely ignorant of all of that stuff that's gone before. I don't know the guy from Adam. Didn't.
My opinion, formed in this thread, is now moulded and fired in a kiln - I've always believed that what you say, you say.. and no amount of editing or verbal retraction, apologizing or backpeddling can undo a syllable.
I'm also now wholly satisfied that LFS is different from the off-the-shelf mentality of rFactor and those other R2P-supported sims. More than ever, I consider this to be something to celebrate, more than merely observe.
I could expound on the motivation of any genuine motorsport driver who declares GT2 to have realistic physics. But I think it's quite sufficient to remind observers that we're not stupid. We're far from it. We're brand-aware.
Lastly, Tim, the LFS licence system is fully integrated both with the LFS game, with LFS World and also with this, the LFS forum. You're showing as a demo user, not as an LFS-licenced user. Credibility being of the essence, I'm sure you understand that you raise eyebrows around here when you make the claims you do about your familiarity with the LFS online racing simulator.
[edit] Happy Birthday Nard!
My opinion, formed in this thread, is now moulded and fired in a kiln - I've always believed that what you say, you say.. and no amount of editing or verbal retraction, apologizing or backpeddling can undo a syllable.
I'm also now wholly satisfied that LFS is different from the off-the-shelf mentality of rFactor and those other R2P-supported sims. More than ever, I consider this to be something to celebrate, more than merely observe.
I could expound on the motivation of any genuine motorsport driver who declares GT2 to have realistic physics. But I think it's quite sufficient to remind observers that we're not stupid. We're far from it. We're brand-aware.
Lastly, Tim, the LFS licence system is fully integrated both with the LFS game, with LFS World and also with this, the LFS forum. You're showing as a demo user, not as an LFS-licenced user. Credibility being of the essence, I'm sure you understand that you raise eyebrows around here when you make the claims you do about your familiarity with the LFS online racing simulator.
[edit] Happy Birthday Nard!
So yeah, let's divert this thread into how I just turned the quarter-century mark a couple minutes ago.
My resolutions this year:
Stay as clean and civil as possible on LFS servers.
Take steps into getting RL racing courses in the future.
My resolutions this year:
Stay as clean and civil as possible on LFS servers. Take steps into getting RL racing courses in the future.Happy birthday, mate!
Rapidly going for 30 I see
Happy Birthday Nard
I agree with this. This he, us, they , them, is really immature. If a neighbor was going to start a business building furniture and asked can I borrow a saw and one of your benches, are you going to give them the third degree becuase they plan to make money with a bit of your helpful lending? sheesh.
I enjoy LFS and think it has the most realistic physics going, adn would also liek more folks to enjoy them as well. This R2P seams to be possibly able to help that, epsecially in the US, where there is too much marketing of crap toy racing *games* to get through to many folks. yah ayh, there loss, who cares right.. well I like to enjoy a full server. I also like to spend a lot of time on real tracks as well. Getting a sanctioning body to use/promote LFS can help, I'm not even seeing any official ties.
Tim should pick up license to S2, it's 24 pounds, at the very least a concession, and more so to be familiar and comparitve of what other bits offer and there comprable quality.
The locals here should stop being so seperatist/elitist. I don't know history and insinuations goign on here, and I don't care. If you have private issues with folks, deal with them privately. If you have a beef with someone, deal with it in therapy on your dime. For every person posting there are dozens reading and just shaking there heads.
This community often from most people looks very much like the If your not with us, your against us mentaility..
The other thing LFS seams to almost caters and directs it self towards is penny pinching. I think LFS is worth more than what I've paid, so I bought license for friends simply becuase they aren't informed and have too many important obligations to attend to, and becuase I wanted to give more than was asked in price. At the same time I can't wait and wish I could in someway offer more to help speed along some other pieces of development. My family time comes first, though so forking over a couple extra bucks is what I've done so far.
Again if Tim is still around, get a license, do a little leg work, it will take less time and be more productive than typing in these froums.
Local Folks, sttep back and look at a bigger picture, it does appear there is a lot of selfish elitism which is real unattractive.
Don't we all want LFS to grow? feature wise. and community size and quality wise? Can't we make suggestions to this end instead of every reason not to. Come on.
I disagree. I think there are better ways to reach the community at large. As for whether i've done wrong not to do the things Tim got in touch with me to ask me to do, no I havn't.
To use your analagy, if that neighbour was rude and obtrusive and dismissive, would you still lend that saw? If that neighbour parked their 4x4 on your garden and wheelspan every time they pulled away, would you still lend them that saw?
There are other services and other communities i'm sure we could work with. I'm alreay investing some of my time in those communities, and I spend every waking hour I can advancing the cause of my series which in turn benefits LFS.
To say i'm hurting LFS by not linking R2P is actually quite hurtful, after all the time I invest in new things that benefit LFS. I'd just rather that time was used more constructively. However there is NOTHING wrong with you doing it ...?
To use your analagy, if that neighbour was rude and obtrusive and dismissive, would you still lend that saw? If that neighbour parked their 4x4 on your garden and wheelspan every time they pulled away, would you still lend them that saw?
There are other services and other communities i'm sure we could work with. I'm alreay investing some of my time in those communities, and I spend every waking hour I can advancing the cause of my series which in turn benefits LFS.
To say i'm hurting LFS by not linking R2P is actually quite hurtful, after all the time I invest in new things that benefit LFS. I'd just rather that time was used more constructively. However there is NOTHING wrong with you doing it ...?
Becky I think the people posting in this thread have/still are seeing a different picture to you as we haven't seen what Tim has really been saying. Of course under no conditions should you be unduly pressured into doing something you and SamH already give an awful lot for this community.
Tim started setting off my bullshit detector after he was pointed to several solutions and he just kept repeating the same thing - "I don't think its gonna happen. That solution doesn't work for me" - even though the solutions were entirely automated etc and did everything he asked for. The part he left out is "because it needs a day or two's work." Let's face it: LFS provides way more data than any other sim, and provides it in real time too, if someone can be bothered to pull it out.
Honestly, in the time he spent arguing here, he could have had the basics for a solution drawn up (down to which system he'll use where) and he could be paying $80 (or whatever) to some programmer to pull it off if he really didn't have the time/knowledge to do it himself. After all, he's gonna make money off it anyway.
I was willing to be reasonable - look at my first post in this thread. Basically, what I saw from there was "Well, I'm helping out your community anyway [and seeing as you're all a bunch of black sheep, playing LFS you need as much of that as possible], so can't someone do all the organising and work for me and then I'll charge others money for it?"
*joins Tristan in Kid's corner*
(Tristan went to Kid's corner after the netKar 1.0.2 patch)
Honestly, in the time he spent arguing here, he could have had the basics for a solution drawn up (down to which system he'll use where) and he could be paying $80 (or whatever) to some programmer to pull it off if he really didn't have the time/knowledge to do it himself. After all, he's gonna make money off it anyway.
I was willing to be reasonable - look at my first post in this thread. Basically, what I saw from there was "Well, I'm helping out your community anyway [and seeing as you're all a bunch of black sheep, playing LFS you need as much of that as possible], so can't someone do all the organising and work for me and then I'll charge others money for it?"
*joins Tristan in Kid's corner*
(Tristan went to Kid's corner after the netKar 1.0.2 patch)
More Positives
Again, looking at this as more of a mainstream user than the hardcore, Tim looks like he does need to do some legwork. And it seams plenty of paths have been suggested.
Tim get a license, start down the path and if you get stuck, ask for assisatance. I'm sure you taking a step, instead of just expecting someone to carry you will go a VERY long way. Coming on here as a Demo User certainly raises eyebrows and will set off lots of peoples sad/scared/hurt/betrayed/hateful sensors. Another Thing Tim, will you be providing the servers/hosting/teamspeak/etc for the LFS races? practice servers in between races, etc? That would be a very good second step.
Becky I don't know what you have done or haven't, again I don't "live" for speed. I do enjoy it VERY much and would like to see it have thousands online. if not tens of thousands of racers, not the few hundred now. Stats show 585 as the max for the last 1/2 year. That is really sad to me becuase it is so great. If that number was doubled, that would be amazing.
Also, there are lots of insinuations that Tim is a "bad, bad" person. If so, please tell us. If my neighbor criminally destroys my property and drives off laughing, I'm going to talk to my other neighbors and unless there is a very good reason, or apology, everyone is going to know, and then folks know to steer clear and why. If he just won the lottery and returns with profuse apologies, repairs it and offers a wad of cash for his temporary overwhelming joy and loss of his senses, you can be more understanding. Either way there is always at least two sides to every story.
Please to either put this to rest and have Tim move on, what is the "big issue" specifically, or to have R2P maybe bring more folks to the "enlightened" side, offer Tim more suggestions than beratings.
This, as many things here, is where a lot of folks are wathing and curious, but prefer to watch, not get involved. I'm just stepping up becuase as a US racer who very much enjoys a *REALISITIC* simulation (and G25 support!) would enjoy more people to enjoy ther virtual tracks with. AS in real life going to my local motorport country club, on days when only a couple people show up, it's very very boring. When each session has 20+ folks, it may not be a "fast" day, but the traffic and discussions between sessions are what really bring you back, it's the people. No matter how good the facility, or the simulation, it's the people and there fun to be around nature that brings people back, and they in turn bring others as well.
Especially during this season of good will, can't we enjoy a Merry Christmas and look beyond berating other people, and taking everything as a personal attack and focus and enjoy the postive qualities?
On this, I'm going to take my steps to learn more about the STCC. I dont' see any big red flags on the R2P site, regisitered, and will just for the sake of "having tried" the other offerings, run an event or two ( unfortunately not with LFS it looks like right now ) to see what its like.
Good Tidings everyone!
Tim get a license, start down the path and if you get stuck, ask for assisatance. I'm sure you taking a step, instead of just expecting someone to carry you will go a VERY long way. Coming on here as a Demo User certainly raises eyebrows and will set off lots of peoples sad/scared/hurt/betrayed/hateful sensors. Another Thing Tim, will you be providing the servers/hosting/teamspeak/etc for the LFS races? practice servers in between races, etc? That would be a very good second step.
Becky I don't know what you have done or haven't, again I don't "live" for speed. I do enjoy it VERY much and would like to see it have thousands online. if not tens of thousands of racers, not the few hundred now. Stats show 585 as the max for the last 1/2 year. That is really sad to me becuase it is so great. If that number was doubled, that would be amazing.
Also, there are lots of insinuations that Tim is a "bad, bad" person. If so, please tell us. If my neighbor criminally destroys my property and drives off laughing, I'm going to talk to my other neighbors and unless there is a very good reason, or apology, everyone is going to know, and then folks know to steer clear and why. If he just won the lottery and returns with profuse apologies, repairs it and offers a wad of cash for his temporary overwhelming joy and loss of his senses, you can be more understanding. Either way there is always at least two sides to every story.
Please to either put this to rest and have Tim move on, what is the "big issue" specifically, or to have R2P maybe bring more folks to the "enlightened" side, offer Tim more suggestions than beratings.
This, as many things here, is where a lot of folks are wathing and curious, but prefer to watch, not get involved. I'm just stepping up becuase as a US racer who very much enjoys a *REALISITIC* simulation (and G25 support!) would enjoy more people to enjoy ther virtual tracks with. AS in real life going to my local motorport country club, on days when only a couple people show up, it's very very boring. When each session has 20+ folks, it may not be a "fast" day, but the traffic and discussions between sessions are what really bring you back, it's the people. No matter how good the facility, or the simulation, it's the people and there fun to be around nature that brings people back, and they in turn bring others as well.
Especially during this season of good will, can't we enjoy a Merry Christmas and look beyond berating other people, and taking everything as a personal attack and focus and enjoy the postive qualities?
On this, I'm going to take my steps to learn more about the STCC. I dont' see any big red flags on the R2P site, regisitered, and will just for the sake of "having tried" the other offerings, run an event or two ( unfortunately not with LFS it looks like right now ) to see what its like.
Good Tidings everyone!
National Auto Sport Association Embraces Sanctioned Sim Racing With Race2play
(229 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG