Quote from nikimere :

wouldn't bother me if they weren't used because the fact of the matter is you should ALWAYS start in 1st in a race car off the line. Even if its down hill and the wind is behind you.

Apart from that TVR Tuscan race car, of course.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Come on

When you really think about it, the realistic way of implementing stalling engines and false starts is to put the players into the start grids* with their gears in neutral. The player then needs to disengage the clutch and put the 1st gear in. Those who don't have clutch pedals would use clutch help and clutch button. And when the green light comes, you engage the clutch and try to burn as much rubber as you can before the tires grip again. After that it is just the usual flailing around/T1 assbraking stuff

*with the server option to drive the car from pits into the grid slot and warmup lap

how true

Quote from Hyperactive :

Come on

When you really think about it, the realistic way of implementing stalling engines and false starts is to put the players into the start grids* with their gears in neutral. The player then needs to disengage the clutch and put the 1st gear in. Those who don't have clutch pedals would use clutch help and clutch button. And when the green light comes, you engage the clutch and try to burn as much rubber as you can before the tires grip again. After that it is just the usual flailing around/T1 assbraking stuff

*with the server option to drive the car from pits into the grid slot and warmup lap

If Scawen adds that to patch W I will go to his house, and not just offer, but force him to let me have his next child. I'll have the operations and everything at my expense too!

Quote from Thorvertonian :

But will LFS go the whole hog, if you can jump start, does that mean you have to apply the handbrake to stop yourself rolling while revving on the clutch/in neutral?

I think it will. I remember starts in Spa in Grand Prix Legends, where the Starting Grid was before Eau Rouge in 1967, so it was going downhill. Before the start you had first Gear in - one foot on the clutch, one on the throttle and the brake, to prevent the car starting to roll down by itself before the Start.

Quote from tristancliffe :

If Scawen adds that to patch W I will go to his house, and not just offer, but force him to let me have his next child. I'll have the operations and everything at my expense too!

eww....

Noobs will false start.. and ram into others while they are still waiting.. and people who like to annoy racers will start as soon as the screen loads, take out half the pack.. etc..


but i would really like to see shifting before hand a feautre.. just not being able to false start..

Quote from nikimere :

how true

Huh? In neutral simply because if you don't remember to press the clutch you will stall the engine. And in worst case it can be seen as a jump start.

*mouth open*

Quote from aoun :

Noobs will false start.. and ram into others while they are still waiting.. and people who like to annoy racers will start as soon as the screen loads, take out half the pack.. etc..


but i would really like to see shifting before hand a feautre.. just not being able to false start..

You can kick or ban those noobs if they do it on purpose. And I don't think it is too unrealistic to have a text on screen saying that "wait for the green lights before moving"...

Quote from amp88 :

I remember reading an issue of Performance Car back in 1994 or 1995 where the author (Peter Dron IIRC) was guesting in a TVR Tuscan race and was told by one of the front-running racers to start in 2nd rather than 1st as it was quicker. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other examples where 2nd gear is quicker (or at least easier) to start in than 1st. Regardless of what the optimal gear to start in is, I don't see a valid reason to be forced to start in 1st. Don't ask yourself why you would want to be allowed to change gears on the grid, ask why we're forced into not changing.

With a low revving, torquey engine then yes it might be quicker to start in 2nd, as you lower the wheel torque. But why didn't they just change the gearing so 1st became 2nd, and basically give themselves an extra gear with no weight penalty?

There isn't currently a car in LFS that would benefit from 2nd gear starts in real life. As I said earlier some I think do start in 2nd in the Sauber, but they can only get away with this because of the simplicity of the clutch/inertia/lack of stalling simulation. Once that is corrected (so anything other than a medium revs 1st gear start is slow, or results in a stall) then I'm all for people to do what they want (safe in the knowledge that sticking with 1st will gain me a few dozen places at each start )

Edit: Hyper - what? He was on your side! See, even Niki's confused now, the poor boy!

Quote from Hyperactive :

Huh? In neutral simply because if you don't remember to press the clutch you will stall the engine. And in worst case it can be seen as a jump start.

*mouth open*

ok now i'm lost... i was agreeing with what you said...

I wasn't sure whether you meant in sarcastic way or not

So I was right

Quote from Hyperactive :

I wasn't sure whether you meant in sarcastic So I was right

this time.... well i was kinda thinking the same thing but you just said it alot better

Quote from nikimere :

so by letting some n00b start the race in 5th gear off the line you think LFS would then be better than rFactor?
LFS already is WAY better than rFactor

no.. it would better for lfs to can start when you want, not when the light are green and the car automatically starts... if you start with red you have a penality

Quote from aoun :

Noobs will false start.. and ram into others while they are still waiting.. and people who like to annoy racers will start as soon as the screen loads, take out half the pack.. etc..

That's like saying, why do the tracks have first turn? "The noobs" will just ram everyone in T1...

Quote from aoun :

Noobs will false start.. and ram into others while they are still waiting.. and people who like to annoy racers will start as soon as the screen loads, take out half the pack.. etc..


but i would really like to see shifting before hand a feautre.. just not being able to false start..

This can be like mandatary pit. Admin can on or off it. So in Leagues it'd be good, on public maybe not...

Bmupping this thread with a sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight spinoff.

False starts.

What's the penalty? 45 secs added to overall time when finishing? Drive-thru? Stop 'n go? Race restart?

In case of restarts we got a problem. With full grid it could end up as a total restart-o-rama when one after another would drop the clutch too soon, controller problems, misbehave, etc.

I'd suggest stop and go penalty.

Drive-Thru as standard FIA/FIM rules (2007)

Quote from Thorvertonian :

Drive-Thru as standard FIA/FIM rules (2007)

:iagree:

I like wat N I K I said.. with the auto pit.. if thats what you ment :P.

"That's like saying, why do the tracks have first turn? "The noobs" will just ram everyone in T1..."

Another thing.. we already got noobs for that.. why have more problems at the start?

I dont care if others get penaltys or not, i just dont want some dumb**** stuffing up the grid because if i make the take off, without any noob false starts.. what are the chances of making turn 1 :P.

I'm all for false starts, of course, as it's a step towards more realism (and of course anyone may choose whichever gear he wants then). As for the possibility to change gears within the current system, I don't know what that should add. If you're not capable of starting the BF1 or FO8 in 1st, than you should probably not be driving it online anyways and simply need more practice (it should be noted that I never drive the BF1 online, even though I am capable of starting it in 1st gear. I'm just not capable of racing it around the track with a few other cars in the grid safely).

I do think however, that it should be possible to disable false starts from the server side, so you could set up n00b-servers without having traffic jams in the pits when 80% of the field comes in for the drive-through penalty . I would be practicing starts offline, though.

Who knows when Scawen will implement this (I'm certain he will), as it would have to be an incompatible patch, I suppose.

:iagree:

Quote from Thorvertonian :

Drive-Thru as standard FIA/FIM rules (2007)

+Infinity for jumpable starts

The penalty should be spectate for a start before the final red light goes on though. In GTR2 with standing starts I occasionally false start - when I do, It's always between the final light coming on and it going green.

You would have to try to false start before the final red light goes on.

E: And rolling starts would be good - and spectate for anyone other than the leader overtaking the safety car or stopping.

I just wanted to post this to make sure there's no confusion:

Quote from Scawen on 11th July 2006 :

Even with auto clutch switched OFF, one part of the autoclutch system does step in at very low engine revs, to prevent stalling.

Engine stalling and removal of any autoclutch is a planned feature and I hope it can be done in the next physically incompatible patch (along with false starts).

False starts are definitely coming and I would expect them in the next incompatible patch. Though, that could take quite a long time as Scawen's list seems to be quite long.

OK. basically im all for the relalism etc. but people who like to disrupt and mis bahave will chance on this to ruin it for others even more.

Quote :

That's like saying, why do the tracks have first turn? "The noobs" will just ram everyone in T1...

not really. obviously there has to be a race track to race on nothing can be don about this, but if we can prevent other areas for people to misbehave and disrupt game sthen we should, the start system works fine now. i would like it to be more realstic, but there are too many "noobs" on lfs for this to work imo.

as for the poeple moaning about rolling down hills, this is a factor in real motorsport, the solution is to hold the brake until the lights go green

false starts will give the noobs another place to wreck, it happens and it will happen, the only way around it imo opinion is to spectate them if they false start, but then this is going to be very annoying for the people who happened to make a mistake, and its not realistic which is going back to the first point

we will just go round and round in circlers with this debate, we wont be able to make lfs releastic in starts unless we can get rid of all the noobs.

Quote from kieran20 :

OK. basically im all for the relalism etc. but people who like to disrupt and mis bahave will chance on this to ruin it for others even more.

People who want to ruin others races don't need false starts to do so. This is why we have a ban system and registered usernames.

Quote :

but if we can prevent other areas for people to misbehave and disrupt game sthen we should, the start system works fine now. i would like it to be more realstic, but there are too many "noobs" on lfs for this to work imo.

There are "noobs" in every other racing game too, and those games seem to manage just fine. Those of us who want this feature shouldn't have to go without because of the possibility that a few bad apples might not be able to hack it.

To paraphrase a great quote by a great man: "Those that would give up a little realism for cleaner racing will soon find they have neither".