So I’ve had this idea for some while (and i know it has been in the back of the heads of just about every one of you) about this project.. actually I lied, it kept me awake just thinking about it last night.. in which the LFS community will build, and possibly put into LFS

I know this sounds a lot like the recent idea with this D1 car, and I guess it somewhat is quite relevant, however in this case, I want to get the whole community to come together in brains and brawn to put this together, a car can all say “I made it…. with some help from friends.” Possibly later on this car could be used for testing to perfect LFS, and later we could auction it off for a charity or the devs or you name it. But I have to say I think this is a great way of connecting the community and bringing everyone closer and having their own part in this construction

So I know we alright have the basics, some brilliant minds, some racers, some artists, and some others to supervise (sit around and watch if you must ). Clearly this can’t be to large of a project, I was thinking somewhere around the size of an MRT, I don’t think we should go as small as a kart, and not as far as the size of the FOX. I personally was thinking specifically of the size of whatever it is Tristan races

Unfortunately I have to say there is one major problem with this whole concept, and that is the position of LFS.. England, which is where this project would have to take place, Germany is also a possibility, but I know a lot of you English get together at least once a year, and you all live in a fairly confined area, unlike just about everywhere else.

So here are the main things this would take:
-Community to decide what we should make and how large and what it can do
-Engineers and their calculators for a proof of concept how this will all work
-Artists to put this whole thing in a nice sleek cover (I guess engineers would do their part in there too)
-Mechanics which should have a slight clue as to how to put all of this together
-And lastly a fair amount of money to put this together (I think we should go for something cheap though, something cheap and affordable which could be put into production possibly or semiproduction [or is that going a little to far?])

Time is of unimportance I believe, any direction is a good direction

I have all the best ideas.

But Tristan seems to have a pretty comprehensive sports car engineering background, and the facilities. He could probably do it all by himself! All we need to do is send him money and slaves.

-1
"Too many cooks spoils the broth."

I think it would be very hard to manage. BTW, you picture it smaller than the FOX but about the size of what Tristan drives? That's an F3 which would be about the same size as the FOX.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I have all the best ideas.

But Tristan seems to have a pretty comprehensive sports car engineering background, and the facilities. He could probably do it all by himself! All we need to do is send him money and slaves.

But I certainly don't have the time

My F3 car Nuse is about the same size as the FOX in LFS, so perhaps not quite what you were thinking of after all.

But I have had the idea at the back of my mind of making a car from scratch (obviously stealing components from other sources, not designing/making everything, but not from one single donor car either). It was about three years ago that I did the most work on it.
It was to be a mid/rear engined sports car, a bit like a Westfield XTR2, but with a 2.0 litre supercharged 'Volumex' engine from a Lancia Beta (although I would consider something else if it came up for the right money). It would be a two seater (so I can demonstrate how good (or bad) it is), side by side. Target weight was about 600kg, with a tight fitting GRP body, and a tubular spacerframe chassis underneath. It would have nothing it didn't need (incl. heater, radio, windscreen etc). I was also using ideas from the Arial Atom and Lotus 340R school of thought.

However, lack of time, money (and most probably ability), as well as my departure to university put it on hold, and so far (with houses, F3 cars and acting all taking over) hasn't been taken off hold. Who knows if it will see the light of day. It remains my ambition to make my own sports car though.

It's an interesting concept though, and I look forward to seeing how this idea develops over the next few days. The trouble is that there are so many opinions about what makes a car 'good' here that the finished car would never have it's own identity. I would HAVE to have a RWD, manual shift car; ultra-lightweight within reason, almost zero electronics, and no turbos, vtecs, wings etc.

Erm, right. That one should have stayed in dreamland, Nuse.

Quote from The Tristan :

with houses, F3 cars and acting all taking over

So that's what you call all this forum hogging and jaffa cake comsumption is it?

too many cooks...
IF...the brightest of us would take their time to help scawen (with textures, or 3D modeling or something that doesnt involve the game engine itself (im very sensitive about it - Im happy how Scawen is doing it...)) that would be great...but when we all would start something like -
"I'll get the Koenigsegg license"
"I'll go to Nurburgring to get that track"
"I'll get in the way and make a big mess of things" and so on - that would be overkill...
Scawen (IMHO) could use some helpers...

Quote from squidhead :

too many cooks...
IF...the brightest of us would take their time to help scawen (with textures, or 3D modeling or something that doesnt involve the game engine itself (im very sensitive about it - Im happy how Scawen is doing it...)) that would be great...but when we all would start something like -
"I'll get the Koenigsegg license"
"I'll go to Nurburgring to get that track"
"I'll get in the way and make a big mess of things" and so on - that would be overkill...
Scawen (IMHO) could use some helpers...

I think you're talking about something completely different

Quote from tristancliffe :

But I certainly don't have the time

You could always stop the silly acting thing.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The trouble is that there are so many opinions about what makes a car 'good' here that the finished car would never have it's own identity. I would HAVE to have a RWD, manual shift car; ultra-lightweight within reason, almost zero electronics, and no turbos, vtecs, wings etc.

Those requirements sound quite sensible, given that they'd make for an easier build. But yeah you're right - design by committee is a famously poor way to work.

The only way I could see this becoming reality is on an academic stage.
Which means:
If there are some involved people who like that idea, and additionally study an engineering degree, then get a concept together and create a presentation. The members offer this international concept to their university using said presentation, ask for some support and organise/develop everything from 4-5 universities, working in small teams each, coordinating each other via the net.

Such groups are likely to recieve the necessary funding because of the great educational value in both hard and soft skills.

I'd be willing to get involved with something like that.

Vain

Quote from tristancliffe :

My F3 car Nuse is about the same size as the FOX in LFS, so perhaps not quite what you were thinking of after all.

is it really? in the pictures it looks not much larger than the MRT.. owell, maybe the size of a large kart would do

lol so far this isn't exactly turning into something that is exactly "in the bag"


just keep in mind we can do the whole design and concept on paper first and then go from there, or not go there at all, but like i said, time i can't imagine is exactly one of those things anyone really has today, but we can all dream right?

Actually, let me see if any of my contacts are willing to help. dragster and stock car experience comes itno play here, becquse we have mentioned tubular frames, and that's probably the way to go for a team with limited funding and facilities

Quote from joen :

I think you're talking about something completely different

could be - Im up for 32 hours straight now...sorry

Quote from XCNuse :

I personally was thinking specifically of the size of whatever it is Tristan races

Tristan has an F3 car, similar in construction to a current Formula Renault car (FOX) and about the same size.

right.. i just looked up pictures, yea im thinking of something much smaller, MRT sized i guess (maybe slightly larger)

Quote from tristancliffe :

It's an interesting concept though, and I look forward to seeing how this idea develops over the next few days. The trouble is that there are so many opinions about what makes a car 'good' here that the finished car would never have it's own identity. I would HAVE to have a RWD, manual shift car; ultra-lightweight within reason, almost zero electronics, and no turbos, vtecs, wings etc.

Actually it's like that with all cars. There are several ideas for the concept of the vehicle around and one is chosen from them. There are five designs and one is chosen from them.
All cars are a compromise of opinions. And they've almost always been except for the smallest of producers, like Donkervoort.
Making that compromise is one of the tasks engineers are supposed to learn. I was planning to join the local FSAE team next winter. But I could aswell join something like this.

Vain

I don't see why this has to be small. Big is good in some cases, the only problems with having a bigger car is cost (slightly really) of materials. Small cars still need all the same stuff really, but big means more space for... mistakes? :P and bigger engine :P.

I don't think anything beyond ~850 kg is reasonable, because we don't really have access to much other than a tubular frame. That means at best we could produce a midengined stripped closed roof RWD 2-seater (look at the design of the Smart Roadster Coupe via google for an idea of the size). Everything else is out of reach financially because of the necessary propulsion.

Actually I'm in favor of a closed-roof solution because it is closer to reality and as such more likely to find (financial) support. It also sets it apart from an FSAE vehicle. And it would sure be loads of fun to drive.

Vain

Closed roof is good, then we could weld XCNuse inside it.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Closed roof is good, then we could weld XCNuse inside it.

With no doors option ?

Build something like Kantti, (No need to make as ugly) very cheap to build and parts can be sourced from any junkyard. Tube frame, surface from almost any material you can imagine, engine at rear.
There is some real world such things, using old car engines, but motorbike engine would fit best for such car.

Well on a project like this there is no reason to re-invent the wheel. The hardest part is getting the geometry right and the adjustability. I would suggest you look at existing design to fine a pre-designed geometry solution. One that comes to mind is that of RC cars. They have very adjustable and well engineered designs and most are not present in the real world but could be easily adapted.

An MRT sized car shouldn't be too hard to build on a budget, plenty of schools and colleges do it as side projects for the stupid kids (in the UK we reward idiots)

I agree that too many cooks blah blah etc...but if a small team was picked to make it, and the Devs backed it then you could simply put the big decisions to the community. So only things like how it should look, or how fast it should be can be decided by a public vote. Although It would probably be best to build something capable of racing in a league, then plaster it with LFS logos.

The problem with any group project like this is ownership.
Where would the thing be kept? Who would drive it? Who would pay to enter events? Because it's not really fair if one person has access to it anytime they like, but someone else a the other side of the world never sees it.

Shame we couldn't set up country construction teams and have a big track meet once a year to have folks drive together

Quote from Dajmin :

Shame we couldn't set up country construction teams and have a big track meet once a year to have folks drive together

Totally Agree...

It's a very nice idea but the realization is very hard..
We all life in different places...

If we wanted to start, then we'd need to come up with the basic design concepts. e.g:

Wheelbase:Track ratio - a long, narrow car would be more stable; short, wide car more likely to be unstable but more flickable
Top Speed or Acceleration - acceleration is much cheaper and top speed very rarely realisable
Road, Road/Track or Track - this covers things like mud guards/wheel arches, ground clearence, lighting requirements
Engine position - Front, Rear, Mid? Longitudinal or Transverse?
Gearbox position
Gear ratios - quick change box, or pre-selected gears from a road car?
Gearbox type - h-pattern, sequential... etc

I could probably write a list of over 300 things that we'd NEED to consider and come up with answers before you even start getting rulers and paper out and drawing.

The alternative way, which does less for me, is to come up with drawings and sketches of the final car, and try to fit 'suitable' components under that bodywork... I personally prefer form following function rather than function following form, but some (non-engineers, ricers ) think differently.

We also have to be careful to disregard anything Americans say (because we'll end up with an 8.0l car that can't do anything) and to carefully disregard anything Germans say (because the car will be amazing, but totally and utterly boring). The Japs should be avoided because we'll just copy everyone elses good bits. And the English should be avoided because we'll spend too much and go on strike. That leaves the French (unreliable, but it might be good on rough roads), the Italians (as long as it doesn't need wiring we might be okay), the Spanish (erm, yeah), and the Scandanavians (so we'll make it out of wood and wear helmets with horns on to drive it).

I love stereotypes