Hi there!

I'll probably have to get a new car at the end of the year, because my current one will have problems getting the so-called "Umweltplakette" (environment badge?) without upgrading. Also there are several other things that would have to be taken care of if I wanted to drive it over another (and maybe this time colder) winter. So, I'm already thinking about what car I should get. This time I'd like to get something a little more performant than what I had previously. Also it has to be a good daily driver and it shouldn't cost more than 10.000 € and it should be fairly easy to get in Germany. Therefore I'm thinking about a hothatch that shouldn't be older than maybe 7 years.

Since I reckon that there are quite a few car enthusiasts around , I thought I'd ask for some ideas to give me inspiration what to look for. So what do you guys think, which one is the "hottest" hothatch that fits my criteria (I'm currently thinking about a Renault Clio RS, btw).

Regards,

Linsen

The original Focus handled very nicely even in the non-sporty models, I don't know if a Focus RS is within your price range but it's the last hot hatch that really interests me, everything since has been simply too heavy and ugly.

Everything is FWD so can't really say much.
You could get proper Corvette for that kind of money, though

Maybe Polo Gti?

There is list of different things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_hatch

Evo magazine highly rates the Renault Clio, especially the previous model 172 cup or 182 trophy, or the older Williams. I'm sure one of those would be a good bet. I am not sure about price or availability of those for you, but worth a look if they're available and within your price range.

Quote from Michael Denham :

Evo magazine highly rates the Renault Clio, especially the previous model 172 cup or 182 trophy. I'm sure either one of those would be a good bet. I am not sure about price or availability of those for you, but worth a look if they're available and within your price range.

That's what I'm looking at atm. Here it's called Clio Renault Sport and it starts at around 7.000 €. The trophy is out of reach, though, as there were only 550 produced (500 went to the UK and 50 to Switzerland afaik). It looks tempting, but I'm a little afraid that many of them have taken quite a beating by young immature drivers -- but that's a problem with most hothatches, I suppose.

@ajp: I don't really like the Focus much for it's looks, tbh, but it's something to think about.

@JTbo: I'm not so sure about the Polo, actually, I think it's mainly wearing the badge as an image factor but doesn't really drive like the three letters suggest.

Quote from Linsen :

@JTbo: I'm not so sure about the Polo, actually, I think it's mainly wearing the badge as an image factor but doesn't really drive like the three letters suggest.

Could be very well so, suggested that only because they do race with those in ADAC Polo cup so some parts might be available to bring it up to standard.

Renault looks very strong when looking reviews and tests, hard to find anything else and if you have been happy with Clio how wrong it would go with 2nd

If your budget would not be set, I would have suggested C30 T5, but but

Do you need to have a new(ish) car? I'd have thought being in germany you'd be up to your armpits in G40 Polos.

I always liked the Renault 5 GT Turbo. I don't know if it was any good or not, but I liked it when I was a little kid.

@JamesK: Well, it has to be somewhat newish because of that environemt badge that will be coming in 2008. Most older cars will have a hard time meeting the cirteria, and I live pretty much in the middle of Berlin where I will have to have that badge or I won't be allowed to drive. Also, it needs to be reliable, as it will be the only car I'll have.

@Kev: I like the R5, too, but it's too old and not reliable, afaik .

@JTbo: There's a misunderstanding, probably du to me using the term, "I'm looking at one". I never had a Clio, I'm just taking buying one into consideration.

The new Civic Type R looks nice, but it's not out yet.

escort or fiesta RS turbo? oh, i just realised you said no longer than 7 years old, but you could get a good example for about your price range.

one car i could suggest would be the peugeot 205 gti, i think both the engine size'z (1.6 & 1.9) would be in your price range, and both are quite quick cars, but its the handling that really makes these cars shine! one other car i could sugest would be a vauxhall corsa gsi or a vauxhall astra gsi. i know the cars i gave are quite old cars, but you can pick up very well looked after examples for your budget or at least in the u.k you can.

good luck with your new car, i hope it gives you enjoyment and fun and be sure to tell us all what car you buy!

frenchy

205gti is older then 7 years through. But i was going to suggest that as well ;P.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I always liked the Renault 5 GT Turbo. I don't know if it was any good or not, but I liked it when I was a little kid.

Used to have one of those... Most fun car I've ever driven, probably because of its imperfections. The turbo was very laggy and if you misjudged a corner, you'd find yourself in a space devoid of acceleration at the apex. Then, all of a sudden, a rush of movement would attempt to twist the steering wheel out of your hands as the front wheels dragged you tighter into the direction you were pointing them.

But keep on top of that and it was a great little car.

Tata http://static.flickr.com/18/70779810_033b285391_m.jpg
By far

SEAT Cupra would be a good choice, Skoda Fabia/Octavia VRS would be good too, but I know Germany doesn't like it diesels.

Ford Fiesta ST?, Honda Civic Type R?, Golf GTi?, all good cars.

Its a shame that most of Europe now encourages scrapping of old cars on "Environmental grounds" ... anywho, a new-ish hothatch for that money shouldn't be hard to find. If it were me, I've get a Chrysler Neon R/T - a lot of car for the money. Seats are also good value for money these days, or there's always Skoda. A Lotus Proton is good in the 'cheap & cheerful' category.

Quote from JamesK :

Its a shame that most of Europe now encourages scrapping of old cars on "Environmental grounds" ... anywho, a new-ish hothatch for that money shouldn't be hard to find. If it were me, I've get a Chrysler Neon R/T - a lot of car for the money. Seats are also good value for money these days, or there's always Skoda. A Lotus Proton is good in the 'cheap & cheerful' category.

Now you come to mention it, the GEN2 is quite a nice car, my GF was looking at one, but they don't do a diesel.........

http://www.proton.co.uk/gen2/index.asp

If I had to get a 'hot' front wheel drive car it would either be a 205 GTi 1.6 or a 306 GTi6.

The 'modern' hot hatches do nothing for me, either in performance or looks. In fact I'd go so far to say that all hot hatches in the last 10 years have been really ugly!

I was gonna suggest a Seat Leon, because I really like them. Not so fussed on the VW Polo, but the Golf's okay.
I also quite like that GEN2, but the back of it looks kinda weird. It looks like it should have a spoiler but it's been stolen

Renault Clio RS or the old Williams.
If you want to go for something older and not really reliable: Renault 5 Turbo II...

err One on fire?

Linsen, at that price, I'd get something RWD or AWD. It would make a good base to work on.

Clio RS or BMW 130i. Nothing else. Maybe a Type R..

Quote from JamesK :

Its a shame that most of Europe now encourages scrapping of old cars on "Environmental grounds" ... anywho, a new-ish hothatch for that money shouldn't be hard to find. If it were me, I've get a Chrysler Neon R/T - a lot of car for the money. Seats are also good value for money these days, or there's always Skoda. A Lotus Proton is good in the 'cheap & cheerful' category.

Or you can step up from the Neon R/T and get an SRT-4

By far the hottest hatch on the market, it will eat Civics for breakfast and then spit out STi's and Evo's after dinner. Not the new ones ofcourse but 05 and older IIRC.

Dodge SRT-4's are only sold in the USA but I bet if you looked around the US military bases there you would come up with one.

I ran 13.7's in the 1/4 mile with my 05 ACR. The handling is on par with a Civic TypeR with the standard Model and with the ACR model your looking closer to Miata handling numbers. The SRT-4 comes with everything, mufflerless exhaust, Dodge Viper racing seats, forced induction with intercooler (1BAR or 14PSI)

Insurance is cheap because it's still based on the Neon. In the states I paid less than 60 dollors a month while my cousin was paying over 200 for his Camaro.

Fuel milage isn't bad either at 30MPG.

The power that these cars produce is phenominal and it will leave the line like a rocket. I have been asked multiple times if my car was AWD, which i'ts not, only FWD but has a factory LSD in the 04 and 05.

HP: 230 BHP (270 at the engine) @ 5275
Torque: 250 FT/LBS from @ 2200-4400

The cost should be right around 10,000 or so if you find a used one, maybe a bit more, don't know the market over there.

I know in the states these sold new for $21k

Let's be a little realistic here. An SRT-4 will be a pain to own in Germany since it would have to be a gray market import, and it'll be more than 10k€, too. An original Clio Williams is a fun car, but I wouldn't call it reliable, and it's become a bit of a collectors item these days, which means you end up paying a lot of money for not a lot of car. And you would have to be insane to own an R5 Turbo as your only car in 2007. Prices for good examples are through the roof and parts are extremely difficult to find.

Emmissions-wise it would have to be Euro 2 or better, which rules out most pre-'96(ish) cars and since reliability is a concern newer would be better.

Some possible candidates:
-A3/Golf 4/Seat Leon 1.8T
-Golf VR6/V6
-Peugeot 206 S16/RC
-Focus ST170
-Clio RS
-BMW 323ti
-Opel Astra OPC/Corsa GSI
-Polo GTI

Personally I'd skip the ST170 and the Corsa GSI because they "feel" slow for some reason and the Polo GTI (the pre-1.8T models) because it (at least the one I drove) suffered from the sticky-throttle syndrome that quite a few newer cars seem to be plagued with. If you're not terribly concerned about fuel mileage, I'd give the VR6/V6 Golfs a second look because the engines sound sweet and they move as well as any car on the list.

Should we already think about 2012 and upcoming regulations? Or is it another car change then as all details about new regulations are not yet quite clear?