I forsee the worst for the 'real' dp1 project, as his life becomes consumed with his pursuit of lfs greatness...

welcome to lfs!

Quote from dpcars :

ok, just got my S2 license. had to get a new driver for my graphics card but that was fairly straightforward. just checked out the training stuff with the mouse and keyboard - i must say the sim is VERY impressive. so i went and ordered the logitech G25 wheel/pedals. can't wait for those to show up!

Cool
Wasn't expecting you to jump in LFS this soon, good to see you're liking it (although I wouldn't expect anything less )
Welcome to S2 Dennis

Awesome, glad to see you decided to get yourself S2 Dennis

thanks everyone - it'll be a while before you see me racing online but it'll probably happen... for the sake of my projects, hopefully not TOO soon

Quote from Hallen :

Hmmm, even putting a smiley at the end of that, doesn't make it even remotely funny.
Point was, Tristian was out of line or maybe he was trying to be sarcastic too? Either way, srdsprinter was spot on in his comments. It doesn't take a fanboy for that; it just takes somebody who knows what he is talking about.

It wasn't meant to be funny Hallen, it was meant to highlight srdsprinters lengthy posts regarding the DP1 and this guys acheivements, I thought it bordered on 'hero' worship and my post was, sadly an attempt to highlight that.

This man has acheived a great deal and obviously has more mechanical knowledge than myself. But he has his own website, where if, we go there can get all the facts, all the videos the whole life history and development of the dp1 yadda yadda, it doesn't need to be repeated here

I find this whole thread a bit pushy, in that it starts as "we told the devs about this and they said "hmmn" Interesting," Over a few short days it has now developed as a generally accepted idea that this prototype WILL be included into LFS, and many comments/posts seem to support this

Without actually finding the particular items to quote from, even the designer hints at it, saying it would be good to test the prototype in LFS before doing this that the other. Others suggest the tracks where the DP1 designer actually test on should be included into LFS so it can give him better feedback /real life comparison etc, This is evidence of the general idea this IS going to be included?

I think the whole thread is just an interesting technical discussion, and should be viewed as such. Nowhere have I seen any form of communication from the Devs on the possible inclusion of DP1 in lfs?

Vague inferences from forum members saying "I have been in contact with the devs" etc mean jack s*it till Scawen et al says " hey this is going to be in the sim or not"

I welcome Dennis to the world of LFS but think the forum, its members have developed this idea/thread into a really forceful attempt to PUSH this dp1 into LFS and my opinion this isn't the correct way to go about things.

It is a form of blackmail and while I'd like to see the thing included down the track, the reality is there are far more important things needed to make LFS from Alpha through Beta to S2 final before even thinking of adding cars etc

Scawen must be under an enormous amount of pressure to bow to the popularity of the inclusion of the DP1 and do it, imagine the whines, complaints dissapointment of a large number of ppl, Dennis included , if it doesn't happen?

If it does great! But that means if a large enough group of ppl band together start rumours go outside to proto builder, street track owners and "unofficially" start things rolling etc

We'll force the Devs hand in the inclusion of things only a strong vocal group wants etc I think you all know what I mean?

The need to complete what is already in the sim outways the need for more stuff. As for this forums (Europeans esp.) fascination with Top Gear I wont even go there except to say turn the TV off and read a book or practice driving LFS, time far better spent

ShannnoN

ShannnoN,

i suspect the devs will do what they feel is appropriate when they feel is appropriate. i'm sure they can manage their priorities and the idea that a forum thread can 'blackmail' them into doing something they don't want to do is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

on the other hand, most designers take user opinion into account and perhaps this thread is an indication that IF and WHEN the devs decide to include the car it would be well received. i was not hinting at anything when i said it would be cool to test the dp1 in lfs, i meant it exactly at face value. IF it happens, it would most certainly be very cool. i'm certainly not going to 'whine' if it doesn't happen, nobody has promised me anything nor do i feel entitled to have it happen. but i would be thrilled if it does.

i for one am very honored that people take such interest in my car. i've put a lot of myself into it (and continue to do so) and it is gratifying that some find it worthy of attention. still, keep in mind that in terms of development phase the dp1 is still in 'alpha' - it's not even a 'beta' yet. so there's much to be done still and much can change. to a degree, people's reactions to the car (both positive and negative) help me continue to evolve it. so i find this thread quite valuable.

and, through this i discovered lfs

i'm with you on turning off the tv - i don't even have one. only seen tg when friends send me links to online clips.

Quote from ShannonN :

It wasn't meant to be funny Hallen, it was meant to highlight srdsprinters lengthy posts regarding the DP1 and this guys acheivements, I thought it bordered on 'hero' worship and my post was, sadly an attempt to highlight that...

ShannnoN

Why didn't you say that in the first place? I can understand your position now.

Although I disagree with some of your positions, I do agree that the Devs will do what they deem to be appropriate in their own time frame. I totally respect that and in fact I encourage it. Most of the time, "design by committee" does not work.

We are not trying to be pushy, at least I am not. I think it would be cool in LFS, but there are tons of cars and tracks out there that I would love to have too. They will happen when the devs are ready or not at all. I will still love LFS.

It was my suggestion, one that I have posed before, that it would be cool to include real tracks and cars for the purpose of Club racers all around the world to use for training and car setup. These people don't have the resources of big race teams, so something like LFS as a tool for them would be very cool, and I think popular too. But that is just my idea; I know there are a lot of things that have to happen first and that my idea may not work out in the long run.

Many people here have not taken the time to read Dennis' logs. Having some of the stuff paraphrased here does no harm. Most of us are car and racing fans and want to see stuff like this. I think it is just interesting and motivating to discuss.

Bah, I don't really want it LFS. Dennis is spending way too much time here now as it is. Once he gets his G25 we can kiss his website goodbye. The updates already are growing more infrequent.



[/quasi-sarcasm]

Um, as one of the ones involved in the starting of this thread... I'd just ike to highlight the fact the title. Key in this is the word "Possibility", meaning it's possible not concrete.

Months ago, my team sent an email to the devs asking if it was OK to seek out new content, pending that it was THIER decision as to whether the new content would be used. DP1 is a lead, not a guarantee. The thread was put here to guage community support for the vehicle.

I personally havent made any asumptions on this, It's just a possibility.
it woulod be REALLY cool, but it may or may not happen

Quote from 07MugenCivicSi :

That is one ass ugly car. I would rather see something like the Ariel Atom 2 or something as an S3 car as more the beginner.

For any of you who don't know the Ariel Atom it's a fully street legal car. It sports a civic Type R motor with a supercharger making 300bhp and with the car only weighing 500kg that equals 600bhp per ton as a power to weight ratio. 0-60 in 2.9 seconds. For £29,000 with the optional supercharger this is one sweet car and well worth being in S3.

Can view the video for it here
Street Fire Atom Video

Ariel Atom Website

1. u suck. It is a unique car, built to the creators own original design. I think it looks good.
2. If you don't know what the Ariel Atom is, you shouldn't be on this forum. XD

Quote from 07MugenCivicSi :

That is one ass ugly car.

not to bash demo users (relating to another topic altogether), but why put such an utterly useless, stupid and insulting post into the thread, when you wouldn't even be able to play with any new cars if they are added to future versions of the game. (unless you decide to buy a licence...)

Before you insult the amazing work produced by others, you should consider what you would think if somebody said that about a project that you have devoted yourself to for such a long time.

Edit: Mods, please remove the post made by this idiot, and others relating his post, it is off topic, and embarrasing.

The funny thing is he can call a rolling parts bin like the Atom good looking, but not the DP1.

Quote from 07MugenCivicSi :

That is one ass ugly car. I would rather see something like the Ariel Atom 2 or something as an S3 car as more the beginner.

For any of you who don't know the Ariel Atom it's a fully street legal car. It sports a civic Type R motor with a supercharger making 300bhp and with the car only weighing 500kg that equals 600bhp per ton as a power to weight ratio. 0-60 in 2.9 seconds. For £29,000 with the optional supercharger this is one sweet car and well worth being in S3.

Can view the video for it here
Street Fire Atom Video

Ariel Atom Website

If you had bothered to read this thread, you would know that it has been suggested, and in another thread at that. Next time, please read a thread before responding to it, and, don't post inane crap. Please.

Not to mention the builder of the dp1 HAS an Ariel Atom, one with a V8 that weighs less than that Civic lump, and has more power. The dp1 was built for the sole purpose of outperforming that Ariel Atom, it has the same engine, downforce, all wheel drive, and a lot less weight. I can tell you which one I'd rather have....

Quote from 07MugenCivicSi :

That is one ass ugly car.

...Give me a minute while I try to fathom your stupidity.

OK, I doubt you'll be able to understand any of this but, firstly this is a race car. As such, it's not made to be a poser's car and to look pretty, it's made to merely go fast around a track. Secondly, it was created by one man, and as such you should appreciate his efforts - because you're incapable of building something better. Also note that what he has achieved in terms of engineering is nothing short of spectacular. He is also following this thread so maybe you should show a bit of respect. Thirdly, as people have said, the Ariel has been discussed, its developers have been contacted and they did not respond back. I for one want the DP1 and the Atom equally in LFS because they're both engineering marvels that will be one hell of an adrenaline rush to race. Lastly, you're a demo user which means that you've contributed nothing to the development of LFS and as such you have little say in what gets in and no say at all in what doesn't get in.

So let's sum up: You care too much about appearances where they don't matter, you're disrespectful, you're presumptuous and you speak where you shouldn't.

Now, please, everyone else posting in this thread, don't let it go to ruins because of this and respond to his post further. It's been a great thread so far.

negative opinions don't bother me - that's a fact of life when one puts his work out there. some people won't like it and some will bash it for various reasons. when criticism is useful i take it under advisement, when it's just ignorance i ignore it. there was a long thread on a design forum about my car a couple years back - if you have the time it might be an amusing read

http://boards.core77.com/viewt ... postorder=asc&start=0

many of the links are now dead but it still gives you an idea of the range of opinions out there. it ended up being a valuable thing for a couple reasons - the most important one is that i realized that styling is a very subjective thing and having easily replaceable bodywork could be a very good thing. so the production chassis has been designed with that in mind.

also, i got a couple alternative designs out of it but neither is really useful except to post some pictures. i did learn a lot from people's reactions to the other designs as compared to my own so it was definitely worthwhile. market research for free. overall though, it proves that it's easy to criticize, difficult to come up with your own alernative and VERY hard to actually make it real.

Having removeable bodywork will also make repairs a lot easier. If you can take the whole shell right off quickly you dont need to fumble about twisting around into all kinds of odd but strangely arousing positions to fix something.

Personally, I love the little guy. Looks awesome imho.

I think this car is one of the few examples that I have seen where form follows function, but the function has created a beautiful form. Peoples' perceptions of aesthetics are obviously subjective, but in my opinion this car looks stunning.

Quote from ev0 :

I think this car is one of the few examples that I have seen where form follows function, but the function has created a beautiful form. Peoples' perceptions of aesthetics are obviously subjective, but in my opinion this car looks stunning.

It does look a bit... odd to me. Maybe it is all the different lines on the car.

But, that does not mean that I think it is ugly; far from it. I love the look of my old Huey helicopter, but it is a design that is far from sexy. It is in the meaning of the thing and the uniqueness of it that sometimes dictates the reactions to the aesthetics.

After reading all of Dennis' blog on both the DP and the Bikini projects, I feel a bit of a connection to the car. I at least understand, in a small way, what has gone into the building of it and I can appreciate its form in a different way now.

Quote from ev0 :

I think this car is one of the few examples that I have seen where form follows function, but the function has created a beautiful form. Peoples' perceptions of aesthetics are obviously subjective, but in my opinion this car looks stunning.

As an Industrial Designer in training; I deal with form and function on a constant basis. Personally, I like it when the function is so exact that it determines much of the form. It makes designing the form to be aesthetically pleasing a much more difficult conquest; often with much more interesting results that something done the other way around. I think that is the major problem in the auto industry these days; everyone seems to design the bodywork and then try to fit everything inside it. Engineering should be done at the same time as the design work; it should all work together, not appose one another.

Quote from Hallen :

.......... I love the look of my old Huey helicopter,

ah the old workhorse of the American Army. I too love this machine. just like the F-15 was the benchmark for fighter/bombers. the Huey is the same for Medium lift choppers. i could talk for days about that chopper m8.

Quote from MAGGOT :

As an Industrial Designer in training; I deal with form and function on a constant basis. Personally, I like it when the function is so exact that it determines much of the form. It makes designing the form to be aesthetically pleasing a much more difficult conquest; often with much more interesting results that something done the other way around. I think that is the major problem in the auto industry these days; everyone seems to design the bodywork and then try to fit everything inside it. Engineering should be done at the same time as the design work; it should all work together, not appose one another.

As a technician who has been involved in prototype engineering over many years (albeit, not in the auto industry) I personally find function determining form to be aesthetically pleasing. This is just my taste though, and I have no consideration for marketing appeal or the taste of those outside of engineering or industrial design.

This being said, I personally find the DP1 to be a beautiful car.




OT Sidenote: MAGGOT, what specific field of ID are you in?

Quote from dadge :

ah the old workhorse of the American Army. I too love this machine. just like the F-15 was the benchmark for fighter/bombers. the Huey is the same for Medium lift choppers. i could talk for days about that chopper m8.

Yes it was. It has a special place in my heart. I wrenched on them for about 6 years. Then I got my commission and went to flight school where I learned to fly them. It is a real, "hands-on" kind of aircraft. Very responsive but you could never get complacent with it. It would bite back in a big hurry.

Quote from NoQuarter :

OT Sidenote: MAGGOT, what specific field of ID are you in?

Once I finish my Bachelor's Degree, I shall be in the Automotive Design field I have worked at a Product Design company, though. We did a lot of remote controls, hairdryers, as well as anything you can fit some form of massage element into. It was a good experience, worked with a great bunch of guys, and got a lot of experience with Solidworks. Plus, I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy who applied to the course who had actual real "professional" experience in the field

well, now that i have the wheel set up and working, it's like learning to drive all over again. the major revelation is just how much i rely on 'seat of pants' inputs in real life for car control. the g loads, the slip at either end, car rotation, etc. of course a simulator cannot reproduce all of those (yes, i'm aware of the force dynamics 'pc peripheral' ). so i've been working through the training lessons. i can definitely state that i'm not a 'natural talent' at sim driving. but i'm getting better - most lessons i'm now doing at 'quick' status though none at 'pro' yet. i have maybe an hour total sim time so far. now that i'm getting better calibrated to the feedbacks that are there (wheel ff, sound, visual) i can begin to make up for the missing ones.

it's definitely educational and i continue to be more and more impressed with lfs. very cool.