i just noticed some kind of bug. don't know whether i should post it here or in the bug section and i hope it has not been mentioned before.

it's about the difference between the sound in the car and the sound outside the car.
if you move the custom view out of the car on the x-axis the sound changes (correctly). but if you do the same on the y-axis it doesn't.
well, it does. but only if you move the view completely away from the car. (like y-offset=2.2m)

so the zone where you hear the muffled sound should be reduced to where the cockpit is, not where the whole car is. hope you get what i'm trying to explain

Quote from Scawen :

Master port is now selectable in cfg.txt (29339 or 8080)

Thank you very very much for this option, I can now unlock from my uni network

Quote from daNieLbuM :

...

As far as I know, Scawen said he only uses a box around the car to determine if you're "inside" or not, because it's much faster and easier to implement that way.

Quote from AndroidXP :

As far as I know, Scawen said he only uses a box around the car to determine if you're "inside" or not, because it's much faster and easier to implement that way.

so it was already known, ok. i didn't think it would be more difficult to implement.
did he also say when that could work correctly ? it's quite annoying if you're using some kind of roof-cam

Too bad we couldn't have the box adjustable, show up as a nice orange box around the track (a la 3dsmax when you use a box UVW Mapping), and we can adjust the UVW(XYZ) size of the box.

Thanks for the test patch Scawen you and rest of devs rock.

Quote from Shotglass :

The inner hair cells (IHC) of the cochlea, which convert sound to nerve impulses, have a dynamic range of less than 50 dB. But we can hear over a 120 dB dynamic range! How is this possible? It turns out that the ears have a built-in sound level compression system, created by the outer hair cells (OHC) of the cochlea. In the most active region of the cochlea basilar membrane, a 4 dB increase in sound pressure at the eardrum increases the membrane motion as little as 1 dB, due to mechanical action of the OHC.

Indeed. Even though the absolute range of information your ear passes to your brain is different, the resolution does not have to be less overall. The logarithmic nature of the "input" side of the scale may not mean a whole lot in terms of our interpretation. I realize that "10db" is "double loudness to our brain" but what does that really mean - it's a subjective quantification IMO. The greater the DR a particular sound system can reproduce, the more "natural" it sounds - yet nothing can reproduce the DR of real life events. There's a contradiction here somewhere!

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Actually it is physically possible, by either limited space for the membrane to move or the hair cells themself limiting that movement.

Well, exactly. That's what I was saying. The physically possible part was in reference to the input (it is what it is)

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But I´ve yet to find anything, that really supports limiting distortion below the point where the ears receive permanent damage

I'm still working on that, see below

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All non linearites of the ear I´ve read about so far, are intermodulations of fequencies close to each other, caused by the "spacial dispersion" one tone causes along the length of the membrane.

If I visualize that, it makes sense.

However, how then would you explain the difference in perception (edit: in terms of characteristic, not apparant loudness) between two identical sources - one at 60dB and one at 110dB? Is it just due to the natural frequency response of your ear (which is nowhere near flat obviously... little spiral thing responsible for frequencies is "tuned" quite intelligently).

Back in my audiofreak days, I used to rountinely abuse my ears with 140dB pressures at frequencies of 25-50Hz. While that may hurt a tiny bit, the same pressure at frequencies much higher than that would be catastrophic - and that "hard hard clipping" you referred to would cause me some serious difficulty.

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Level is a measurement of power so it basically refers to the mean of the waveform, whereas amplitude is the maximum of the wave.

Quote :

Level limiting will squeeze and expand the waveform to a certain (quadratic) mean, without any change to the shape of it so the only distortion/loss is in dynmaic range (effectively what the volume slider does with v2).

Opposed to that amplitude limitation just cuts off everything above a certain threshold, causing a clearly visible change in the waveform as well as lots of unwanted high frequency components.

Intensity/power (what you call level) is not necessarily "loudness" though right? Amplitude on the other hand, is.

Here is some related poop I dug up:
----------
The threshold of hearing corresponds to air vibrations on the order of a tenth of an atomic diameter. This incredible sensitivity is enhanced by an effective amplification of the sound signal by the outer and middle ear structures. Contributing to the wide dynamic range of human hearing are protective mechanisms that reduce the ear's response to very loud sounds....In response to sustained loud sounds, muscle tension tightens the tympanic membrane and, acting through the tendon connecting the hammer and anvil, repositions the ossicles to pull the stirrup back, lessening the transfer of force to the oval window of the inner ear
------------------

Note the bold - this would seem to be effectively transforming the waveform (figuratively) on the "output side of your ear"

Quote :

I´m not sure if those two are clearly sperateable.

Then I'll have to ask - what is the appropriate approach for creating the illusion of loudness? If you look at recordings from say GTR2, it appears that the same phenomenon exists there as well... And it "sounds loud"!

There's a lot more to discuss here, sorry I haven't taken the time to draw things out more. Some of the things I've been thinking are hard to articulate.

useing "davews" recent patch sound pack, if i deselect all sounds ingame except the turbo and dump valve i can not hear them at all.

not sure if this is a fault at my end or not, i was racing the gtr cars today and wonderd where the turbo whine noise had went ?

Hats off regarding the new features, fixes and the new mirrors.

There is a problem with control-S though.

The first screenshot you take is saved as lfs_001, then lfs_002 and so-on and so-forth (with more zeros). But when you close down LFS and restart it again, instead of the next one being lfs_003, it overwrites lfs_001. I just lost a few pics with that.

Already been reported in this thread

Quote from SlamDunk :

Noticed that the previous screen shots in \shots folder are overwritten if you restart LFS and start capturing images again. Can you please make it so that it just adds up?

Quote from AndroidXP :

Already been reported in this thread

Sorry, search didn't chuck it up

Most of the time I won't be using the shots thingy, because the pics are a little blurried compared to printscreen in Gimp Anyway good idea!

Quote from Riders Motion :

Most of the time I won't be using the shots thingy, because the pics are a little blurried compared to printscreen in Gimp Anyway good idea!

Printscreen and Shift+S have pretty much the same quality. You can verify by pausing the game, making one shot with Shift+S, the other with printscreen, then open one image, use the other as layer above it and set the layer mode to difference. The resulting image will be almost 100% black, because the difference is minimal.

E: Just tested it, there *are* differences over the whole screen, but it is pretty much only ±1 on R, G and/or B channel. Nothing you could make out with your eye.

Sorry if this has been reported already, but this thread is getting pretty long and I don't have time now to read it all again.

I'm using DaveWS_soundpackV3 and everything's great (thanks for all the changes!), except that when I switch to free view (shift+U), the sound gets instantly more level and much more clipping, particularly when there are lots of cars close to me. Makes a big difference with the chase view, but I'd expect the two to be very similar.

Quote from Vain :

I have a bug that is propably caused by S2.
Reproduction steps:
Start LFS 0.5V2
Go to singleplayer, Blackwood GP, select the XFG
Start a practice session
After starting, press shift+u to enter the autocross-editor
Select "Options" in the lower right corner
The screen flickers, the driver-model that should be viewable is sometimes cut in half (see first screenshot) and the car on the track can interfere with the model of the driver (second screenshot).
Use throttle and brake to incluence the flickering.

The procedure above is only *one* way to reproduce this. I had this occur to me originally on BL2 with the XRT.
The options screen works very well if I access it in a different manner (esc -> options), which leads me to believe that this is a software-internal problem.

I can't seem to reproduce the flicker. Can you describe that better, what is it that is flickering? The whole 3d picture, the text, the whole screen? If it's the whole screen, what is it flickering to? Blackness, or a background screen? Is there an easier way to reproduce the flicker? Does the game have to be paused, or not paused?

About the driver legs intersecting the ground or the car, I don't think that is related to any screen flicker. It's hard to change, and I'm not very concerned about it, it's just a z buffer thing due to drawing the options driver in the same user view place as the 3d world. Usually it's ok but sometimes there is an intersection.

Brilliant work on the latest patch! I got some screenshots from our latest league race and ctrl+s just made it SO much easier. Those mirrors sure looked nice too, can't wait to test them in race.

Now, on thing I was wondering about, I'm on a 3H2G setup and have noticed what appears to me as a small glitch - I can only see another racer's name tag when I'm almost right on top of the guy in front.

I only installed the test patch after the race so not sure if you touched anything here. Would it be possible to have the display distance as a factor in a config file or something similar to that? I kind of like not seeing the tag when they're far away, but at the moment I'd like to see it a bit earlier than what I get now.

Thanks again and keep up the great work.

I didnt notice that to start with... I am also on a TH2Go set up, and I have my draw distance set to max, every thing runnng full, and have experienced the same. I only see the player name when almost on top of the car in front.

Its not really a bug - but would prefer to see the name earlier (at a greater distance)

I also notice that bug, not with a TH2G setup, but just a normal 2 monitor setup running in Horizontal Span mode (nVidia card)

Hi Scawen !

Thanks for all u do on LFS !!!

I have tested this new patch on Xp and i haven't any problem... On Vista, i've got a bug on mirrors : about every 2-3 seconds, no picture (except wheels and smoke).

(See on the 2 attached pictures)

Computer used : C2D E6600, 2x8800 GTX (sli) - tested with 3 different drivers

Edit : after some more tests, it seems to happen always in the same locations !
Edit 2 : i know it's perhaps not a LFS bug (driver!), just i report...

Hope it can help you...
Regards,
FRH KingOfIce

Hi Scawen, would be possible to get a ToDo-List again on the first post?
So people somehow do know whats coming up..!

I won't write my to do list - because I never know what will make it to the next patch until I actually try to do it, but I can tell you what I've already done for V3. Test Patch V3 will be a fully compatible patch which fixes some bugs, improves some minor graphics elements and frame rate on most computers, and takes us another step closer to having multiple custom views per car which will make the film makers happy (not yet but we're getting there). Also some InSim updates. The idea is this should be one of the last fully compatible updates before a multiplayer incompatible version.

2D Display :

Improved small map car pointers
Improved needles and markers on clocks
Slightly more efficient 2d graphics drawing
Driver names draw distance no longer depends on FOV
FIX : Wide screen autocross object selection buttons

Graphics :

Better FPS due to removal of unecessary LOD checks
Removed option "Wider screen increases LOD"
Removed option "All scenery at maximum LOD"

Interface :

ESC now closes live suspension view and sound editor
HOME key now works correctly in single player replays
ESC in game setup screen now exits to entry screen
SHIFT+O in main entry screen now goes to options
FIX : Next screen shot number was not saved on exit
FIX : Default sound selected when deleting a colour

Views :

Separate FOV for each car's custom view
Separate steer look option per custom view
View screen rearranged to make more sense
Improved options for follow view (chase cam)

Misc :

Game setup screen stats : join / pit / spectate
New InSim packets (pit / penalty / take over / flags)

Quote from Scawen :

The idea is this should be one of the last fully compatible updates before a multiplayer incompatible version.

Exspecially this line makes me very happy! So hopefully you will be able to finish your work for V3 soon and start working on the necessary stuff (sorry if i call it that, but for me it is most important) again.

Happy going Scawen and make us happy again

Quote from a n d 1 :

Exspecially this line makes me very happy! So hopefully you will be able to finish your work for V3 soon and start working on the necessary stuff (sorry if i call it that, but for me it is most important) again.

Happy going Scawen and make us happy again

I couldn't discribe it any better

Quote from Scawen :

<Snip>

Nice list..bit suprised to see there's extra fps to be gained, LFS already runs 2x the framerate most other sims do. Nice work.

Quote from Scawen :

New InSim packets (pit / penalty / take over / flags)

Hi Scawen, could you attach the new insim.txt (if you finished wrote it) so that we can start updating our programs?
Or also for possible wish for something to change