Glad someone has FINALLY figured this out (besides me). Who in their right mind would realistically drive a car in an all out race with absolutely NO preparation? Last time I checked, I could easliy obtain 2-way adjustable dampers from Koni at 300+AUD each.
Glad someone has FINALLY figured this out (besides me). Who in their right mind would realistically drive a car in an all out race with absolutely NO preparation? Last time I checked, I could easliy obtain 2-way adjustable dampers from Koni at 300+AUD each.
Good to see some agreement guys. I was starting to think I was quite alone on this one.
And Cue, don't you think if the devs intended for there to be less adjustment, there would be? I think Scavier can speak thier own minds on what thier vision for this project is.
And Cue, don't you think if the devs intended for there to be less adjustment, there would be? I think Scavier can speak thier own minds on what thier vision for this project is.
Wouldn't mind seeing XRG (stock) and XRG (Club racing) variants to choose from, first one with only adjustments possible like in real car would have and later to have for example current range of adjustments, however gears, springs etc have way too many options compared to real life, but one can order almost any gear ratio and almost any springs he likes.
For example to my RL car I can order springs what ever specs I like to and get dampers with 18 settings, or ones I can order by spec (guess why in my car there is no these things?), I can make parts to allow more negative camber that I can choose to be from certain range (how much there is space, haven't really checked that) etc. Of course not very cheap all this
I can get gearbox ordered with specs I like, but that is going to cost truckload of cash, also can get sequential box which costs again more.
So kind of way LFS having so much adjustability is right as it is possible to do so, if wallet is enough thick.
Maybe actually it can be made with setup support so that server can limit options to few where you can choose to emulate street car behaviour, at same time you could get limited setups by rules and forced setups, this way would not be too much work and everyone could be happy.
For example to my RL car I can order springs what ever specs I like to and get dampers with 18 settings, or ones I can order by spec (guess why in my car there is no these things?), I can make parts to allow more negative camber that I can choose to be from certain range (how much there is space, haven't really checked that) etc. Of course not very cheap all this
I can get gearbox ordered with specs I like, but that is going to cost truckload of cash, also can get sequential box which costs again more.
So kind of way LFS having so much adjustability is right as it is possible to do so, if wallet is enough thick.
Maybe actually it can be made with setup support so that server can limit options to few where you can choose to emulate street car behaviour, at same time you could get limited setups by rules and forced setups, this way would not be too much work and everyone could be happy.
So tell me, why would I choose the stock version over the club racing one then?
1) It separates mens from boys
2) It is more fun to have to come over limitations
3) It is more realistic if you like to race unmodified car
4) Only sissies and geeks choose club racing as they lack of true skill to drive such car, you can fix lack of driving skill with skills in setting up a car in lame club racing version, yeah right
Some people just like to have setup options plain and simple where you can just jump in and drive without spending days to optimize your driving and setup to be able to compete with other using weeks optimize their setups and driving with such setups. Don't know how you feel about such racing, I know it is not everyone's cup of tea.
At this point, no. I think that it was quicker and easier to implement the adjustments that are there now and that is why it was done. Other than the UF1, most of the cars have the exact same adjustments. I think it was easier to put in minimums and maximums and allow everything in between. Defining a specific number of settings for each car would be time consuming and I think Scawen was more concerned with getting it in there than making it perfect on the first try.
Of course anyone COULD do any of the things that we can now do in LFS. If you were Bill Gates you could buy a totally custom suspension, transmission, etc. for your XRG for each track you want to run on. Is this something that would take place in real life? I think not.
As a few people have pointed out, getting an adjustable suspension, new shocks, new ARBs, etc. is not overly expensive. I think this is what the road cars are meant to be: lightly modified everyday cars. This is why I suggested suspension adjustment, just not to the level that the game currently permits. It's absurd to think that someone would buy a one-off transmission, costing thousands of dollars, completely adjustable suspension (caster, camber, ride height, spring rate, damping, etc.), an adjustable diff, brake bias controller, custom ARBs, etc. then put all that stuff in a 115hp FWD car, leaving the stereo and sound deadening in the car, and running around on grooved road tires. Does anyone really think this is a likely scenario?
I think the road cars need *some* adjustment, just like most of the cars that are autocrossed or used for track days. However, I do not think that what we have now is realistic, nor does it make for good racing. If anything, it only widens the gap between those who have the time and knowledge to spend on setups and those who do not. I think that should be left to the race cars and let the road cars be simpler and more straight forward.
I would love to hear Scavier's thoughts on this issue. I don't know Scawen or Eric personally, but I highly doubt that the current situation is what they intended.
Ok what I wrote before did not make any useful addition to this thread so I am re-writing my thoughs.
As far as the level aof adjustability and the costs infolved for a street car here is what I know. My car, a miata, from the factory has the ability to adjust the camber and toe. on the wheels. There are 2-3 final drive ratios that were avalable and depending on the year of transmission used there maybe three differnt ratios that were used on the 5 speed boxes. The only differences were in the first two gears and the difference were very minor.
For few thousand dollars I can get a fully adjustble suspension system which 20+ levels of damping adjustment + preload, several ARB choices and a few sets of springs. There are also a few choiced for aftermarket gearsets for the transmission that are more optimised for the power curve of the engine but each is over 3k.
Thats a lot of adjustment but is no where near what is abalable in LFS, Caster, Ackeman, Brake Bias & Pressure are not adjustable. Final drive is limited to 3 choices, an gear box ratios might as well be limited to 2 predefigned sets. The number of spring rates is also very limited as are the ARB choices. And thats all I have to work with. Everything become a ballancing act and the driver becomes more of the determining factor.
LFS allows adjustment in gear ratios down to 0.0001, and do do that you need like 10,000 teeth on the gear, you might be lucky if you have 100 in a real transmission. The number of teeth & there pitch determin the number of choices that exist. In LFS it is as if instead of gears we have friction wheels which we can very in very very small imcrements to optimise ratios and this is not in any way close to reality.
Patch W will be a multiplayer update as Scawen mentioned, avter that will be the incompatable. So the earliest I can see a fix to these issues is Patch X. As S2 has been said to be about the Cars this is the right time to take this step. Its time to recode the vehicle setup process and options, it time to move from infinate adjustbility to realistic values and number of choices. Its time to make it realistic.
As far as the level aof adjustability and the costs infolved for a street car here is what I know. My car, a miata, from the factory has the ability to adjust the camber and toe. on the wheels. There are 2-3 final drive ratios that were avalable and depending on the year of transmission used there maybe three differnt ratios that were used on the 5 speed boxes. The only differences were in the first two gears and the difference were very minor.
For few thousand dollars I can get a fully adjustble suspension system which 20+ levels of damping adjustment + preload, several ARB choices and a few sets of springs. There are also a few choiced for aftermarket gearsets for the transmission that are more optimised for the power curve of the engine but each is over 3k.
Thats a lot of adjustment but is no where near what is abalable in LFS, Caster, Ackeman, Brake Bias & Pressure are not adjustable. Final drive is limited to 3 choices, an gear box ratios might as well be limited to 2 predefigned sets. The number of spring rates is also very limited as are the ARB choices. And thats all I have to work with. Everything become a ballancing act and the driver becomes more of the determining factor.
LFS allows adjustment in gear ratios down to 0.0001, and do do that you need like 10,000 teeth on the gear, you might be lucky if you have 100 in a real transmission. The number of teeth & there pitch determin the number of choices that exist. In LFS it is as if instead of gears we have friction wheels which we can very in very very small imcrements to optimise ratios and this is not in any way close to reality.
Patch W will be a multiplayer update as Scawen mentioned, avter that will be the incompatable. So the earliest I can see a fix to these issues is Patch X. As S2 has been said to be about the Cars this is the right time to take this step. Its time to recode the vehicle setup process and options, it time to move from infinate adjustbility to realistic values and number of choices. Its time to make it realistic.
Well this has turned into a full blown argument since last I popped in. lol
Firstly. I would hate for anyone to be suggesting that options be limited within LFS. I love all the setup options, and how fine they can be adjusted. It seems the problem you are having Cue-ball, is more a struggle with your own setup. Not a shot. I suggest then you read the basic/advanced section of the manual. Print it out like I did. It's all very simple to understand, and is really very interesting, not to mention practical. It not only explains what each option does, but how to use it.
As for the argument that street cars should be actually as factory delivered, and then just assume your too poor to modify it in any way; then I think thats really very lame, and missing the point of the Sim entirely. As mentioned already. It is assumed you've already modded it out. In real life, kids spend thousands of dollars modding their cars with god knows what junk.
As for creating an equalisation, well thats so simple to implement. It just needs an option for server to create a standard setup. I guess there are leagues out there that might like that, or people who can't setup a car. I think it'd be pretty boring myself. Truth is; its a racing sim. You are racing humans, and humans like to compete, and use any advantage they can (within the bounds of the sim), and setup is just one of those.
Sounds to me what you really want; is Need for Speed.
Venus
Firstly. I would hate for anyone to be suggesting that options be limited within LFS. I love all the setup options, and how fine they can be adjusted. It seems the problem you are having Cue-ball, is more a struggle with your own setup. Not a shot. I suggest then you read the basic/advanced section of the manual. Print it out like I did. It's all very simple to understand, and is really very interesting, not to mention practical. It not only explains what each option does, but how to use it.
As for the argument that street cars should be actually as factory delivered, and then just assume your too poor to modify it in any way; then I think thats really very lame, and missing the point of the Sim entirely. As mentioned already. It is assumed you've already modded it out. In real life, kids spend thousands of dollars modding their cars with god knows what junk.
As for creating an equalisation, well thats so simple to implement. It just needs an option for server to create a standard setup. I guess there are leagues out there that might like that, or people who can't setup a car. I think it'd be pretty boring myself. Truth is; its a racing sim. You are racing humans, and humans like to compete, and use any advantage they can (within the bounds of the sim), and setup is just one of those.
Sounds to me what you really want; is Need for Speed.
Venus
That is not the case at all. The problem that I have is that the cars, as they stand now, are not the least bit like they would be in real life. Such gearing options would be, literally, impossible. And many of the other options would be possible, but at such a high price that nobody in their right mind would bother.
And you are missing out point entirely, as nobody has said that the cars should be as factory delivered. Please do not put words in my mouth (or the mouths of others who agree). We are saying that the cars need to have realistic setup options. Setup options that are not only available in the real world, but that are attainable by people who are not billionaires.
On this point we agree.
Sounds to me like you lack reading comprehension and/or don't know what the hell you are talking about.
lol maybe so. However, I think you are taking it way too seriously. Its not real life. Its a simulation, and of course you know that. In real life, I can feel how the car moves; does that mean that has to be implemented? Of course not. Its a Simulation, and yes, I agree with your point on gearing. However; since I have complete control over it now down to an nth degree; I am certainly not willing to give it up; just because you say we shouldn't have it cause it doesn't fit into what you perceive it should be about. Its a race sim. Personally; we don't have enough setup options.
I want packers, asymetric suspension setup; the ability to control brake bias in car plus a heap of other things.
Truth is, in car; you can change camber, tyre pressure, wings etc; but in real life of course you could never do that. Do I want it taken out just because of that? No way. The more options the better it is.
V
I want packers, asymetric suspension setup; the ability to control brake bias in car plus a heap of other things.
Truth is, in car; you can change camber, tyre pressure, wings etc; but in real life of course you could never do that. Do I want it taken out just because of that? No way. The more options the better it is.
V
Explain me how these gearing options would be impossible?
Make assumption that you do have unlimited amount of cash and storage space.
Order 10 000 differently setup gearboxes and differentials or what ever amount of combinations there is and you have all the options.
Or think like this, you can order one to have those certain ratios from all those options in setup screen.
It is not impossible, but it is not likely IRL.
Sure would be great if you need to choose from few options that you take with you on track, but I think that is something never happening as I have understood that there is not too much interest over these role playing kind of things coming to LFS, which I find bit sad, I would love to get this and even more depth to it, so you have to really think how to you use your car as there would be only limited amount of parts that would be not so easy to get renewed to top shape.
interesting debate. i don't really see the need to take away any options from any of the cars. just pretend not to have them if you don't want them.
but as for adding config options / modeled components, i think the priorities should be:
1) differential preload
2) 4-way dampers
3) brake temps
4) oil and water temps
and maybe sometime in the far future:
-fuel maps
but as for adding config options / modeled components, i think the priorities should be:
1) differential preload
2) 4-way dampers
3) brake temps
4) oil and water temps
and maybe sometime in the far future:
-fuel maps
Even if you had unlimited funds there are still restrictions. Many of the gear ratios that are selectable in LFS are simply not possible. They would require gears larger or smaller than is possible or they would require more teeth than is possible. You simply CANNOT select every single tiny adjustment. It is physically impossible (in the real world). Even if you could, it's asinine to do so. And even if you DID have all the money in the world, making such changes would take time. Time that is not accounted for in LFS. In the game you can change ride height by .25" with a few clicks, but in the real world it would take time to adjust all of the springs on the car, to have new rearend gears produced, to create stiffer ARBs, etc.
I would like someone to explain to me how having thirty billion different gearing options is somehow better for the game or the driving experience. What is gained by having 500 ride height adjustments, rather than having 5 of them? What is gained by having 4000 rear end ratios instead of 5? All it does is add needless complexity. Not only are these options unrealistic, but they have bad effects on racing. Newbies have difficulty with setups. People who don't know how to do setup work are at a huge disadvantage. Everyone ends up managing hundreds of different setups for each car, just to stay competitive. How are these things good for the community or the racing?
I think the point Cue-Bal is trying to make is that as it is right now the level of adjustability is so high that the driver is not forced to make as many choices in the setup. This leads to a situation where everyone runs bases their sets of the WR sets. And setups can be so fine tuned that they drive exactly like the driver wants.
This has a net result of allowing those people with very good setup skills to create a car that is perfict for them while those that don't have such finely honed skills are left with having to addapt to a not ideal setup. The end result is races that are not very close and competitive which is the point of a sim like this. To have close and fun races.
By limiting setup options to more realistic values and number of choices drivers now will all have to make compromises and adapt to the limitatios of the setup options, this also brings the racing closer togeather and makes the racing more about your racing abilities and less about your setup. This is a good thing.
I do not see a problem with very granular setup option for the suspension, wheels, brakes and tires. I do think that the transmissions and diffs need to be modeled and their setup options adjucted to be in line with what is really posible in a real car. I just spent some looking and most of the gear boxes under 10k come with a choice of a few ratio sets and rear diffs come in with 5-10 ratio choices from most of the racing gearbox vendors I could find.
The only car in LFS that woudl use a box where indifidual gears can be altered indipendantly is the BF1 and even then you might have no more then 10 choices for ratios of any 1 gear. We do not need transmission and final drive ratio adjustability down to the 1/10000th. Model a real transmission with real teeth and let us adjust within real limitations.
This has a net result of allowing those people with very good setup skills to create a car that is perfict for them while those that don't have such finely honed skills are left with having to addapt to a not ideal setup. The end result is races that are not very close and competitive which is the point of a sim like this. To have close and fun races.
By limiting setup options to more realistic values and number of choices drivers now will all have to make compromises and adapt to the limitatios of the setup options, this also brings the racing closer togeather and makes the racing more about your racing abilities and less about your setup. This is a good thing.
I do not see a problem with very granular setup option for the suspension, wheels, brakes and tires. I do think that the transmissions and diffs need to be modeled and their setup options adjucted to be in line with what is really posible in a real car. I just spent some looking and most of the gear boxes under 10k come with a choice of a few ratio sets and rear diffs come in with 5-10 ratio choices from most of the racing gearbox vendors I could find.
The only car in LFS that woudl use a box where indifidual gears can be altered indipendantly is the BF1 and even then you might have no more then 10 choices for ratios of any 1 gear. We do not need transmission and final drive ratio adjustability down to the 1/10000th. Model a real transmission with real teeth and let us adjust within real limitations.
Its a simulation, a mathematical representation of an occurance in real life. To be an accurate simulation it should accurately represent the choices faced by real life crew chiefs. The available options are beyond those available to F1, rally, Nextel or even LeMans prototype teams ...
Yes, I do think that limitations would be really a nice thing.
Problem is that specially with springs you can order whatever setting you like, now you don't have of course money to get all of possibilities, but easily few, which few from this to choose then?
There is perhaps not unlimited possibilities of gear ratios, but nearly enough to choose few from, again which one to choose?
And list goes on...
Certainly all mechanical limitations should be taken account and for example steering lock was reduced because of most cars don't have such high steering lock, some surely but quite few.
Perhaps again here is possibility to create something new and innovative instead of what we have already seen in sims past years?
Also when is limiting setup options best to do?
I think that we need to have solid and tested bug free physics and modelling of differentials etc. working as they should before we start to limit setup options as now with wide range of settings it is easier to cause some bugs show up (ARB bug and such).
Problem is that specially with springs you can order whatever setting you like, now you don't have of course money to get all of possibilities, but easily few, which few from this to choose then?
There is perhaps not unlimited possibilities of gear ratios, but nearly enough to choose few from, again which one to choose?
And list goes on...
Certainly all mechanical limitations should be taken account and for example steering lock was reduced because of most cars don't have such high steering lock, some surely but quite few.
Perhaps again here is possibility to create something new and innovative instead of what we have already seen in sims past years?
Also when is limiting setup options best to do?
I think that we need to have solid and tested bug free physics and modelling of differentials etc. working as they should before we start to limit setup options as now with wide range of settings it is easier to cause some bugs show up (ARB bug and such).
This post was about realistic set-up options. It has nothing to do with whats fair for anyone, or who has a lot of money or anything like that.
I recently got a tour of Rahal-Letterman racing (IRL team). I asked him how often they change the differential settings.
He said, "at the ovals, almost never. At the road courses we have about 10 or so different settings to choose from."
I then asked him about changing gear ratios. He gave an example. If the wind changed direction for the race they could change the ratios and often do, but, they only change them if it is a signifigant difference in mph, say a 10mph head wind changes to the opposite direction.
If teams were to spend millions on as many gear ratios as possible (which is still currently less than in LFS), they wouldn't have any money for the car!
LFS is a simulation, it is simulating real world racing. In the real world setup options are not unlimited. But trust me, and I think some people might be missing this point; You will still have more adjustability than you will need.
Some points suggesting that having no limitations on street car settings would realistic are valid, but very weak. If we are going that far, then I should be able to take my passenger seat out,put slicks on my car, or change the track width or put a 6 speed tranny in the XF GTI or blah blah blah.
Yeah sure, that stuff is possible, but when I am tuning a car in LFS, I would like for me to picture someone doing the same thing, with the same car in real life aka...what I'm doing is SIMULATING something not only possible, but FEASIBLE.(not in the same time I do it, but the physical possibility)
-Limit the gear ratio and suspension adjustments on the street cars to FEASIBLE ranges and precision. I'm sure people will still argue what is feasible, but lets be honest, do you see someone in a VW GTI with full interior 140 odd horsepower, street tires, adjusting their differential by 1% at a track day? NO, its not possible or feasible.
The race cars need more setup OPTIONS and more realistic(less precise) ranges of adjustment.
Yes, the "don't stop progress until its bug-free" argument is a popular one and I agree, but these are not only changes in ranges for the options, but new options as well, and with more options comes more bugs. Physics first, everyone says here, well, physics first, differential physics, damper and suspension physics, chassis flex physics, these are integral parts of a racing simulation, they do not need to be done now, but they do need to be done and they should be, in my opinion, not to far down the 'to do list'.
-I love LFS, and everything about it. I love the way the dev's work. I am not suggesting they need to do these now. I am only suggesting that these options/changes should be on the list, for the better of LFS in general, the community and the general idea of a racing simulation.
I recently got a tour of Rahal-Letterman racing (IRL team). I asked him how often they change the differential settings.
He said, "at the ovals, almost never. At the road courses we have about 10 or so different settings to choose from."
I then asked him about changing gear ratios. He gave an example. If the wind changed direction for the race they could change the ratios and often do, but, they only change them if it is a signifigant difference in mph, say a 10mph head wind changes to the opposite direction.
If teams were to spend millions on as many gear ratios as possible (which is still currently less than in LFS), they wouldn't have any money for the car!
LFS is a simulation, it is simulating real world racing. In the real world setup options are not unlimited. But trust me, and I think some people might be missing this point; You will still have more adjustability than you will need.
Some points suggesting that having no limitations on street car settings would realistic are valid, but very weak. If we are going that far, then I should be able to take my passenger seat out,put slicks on my car, or change the track width or put a 6 speed tranny in the XF GTI or blah blah blah.
Yeah sure, that stuff is possible, but when I am tuning a car in LFS, I would like for me to picture someone doing the same thing, with the same car in real life aka...what I'm doing is SIMULATING something not only possible, but FEASIBLE.(not in the same time I do it, but the physical possibility)
-Limit the gear ratio and suspension adjustments on the street cars to FEASIBLE ranges and precision. I'm sure people will still argue what is feasible, but lets be honest, do you see someone in a VW GTI with full interior 140 odd horsepower, street tires, adjusting their differential by 1% at a track day? NO, its not possible or feasible.
The race cars need more setup OPTIONS and more realistic(less precise) ranges of adjustment.
Yes, the "don't stop progress until its bug-free" argument is a popular one and I agree, but these are not only changes in ranges for the options, but new options as well, and with more options comes more bugs. Physics first, everyone says here, well, physics first, differential physics, damper and suspension physics, chassis flex physics, these are integral parts of a racing simulation, they do not need to be done now, but they do need to be done and they should be, in my opinion, not to far down the 'to do list'.
-I love LFS, and everything about it. I love the way the dev's work. I am not suggesting they need to do these now. I am only suggesting that these options/changes should be on the list, for the better of LFS in general, the community and the general idea of a racing simulation.
What to choose, how to make it, simple and poor or complicated and rich?
Option 1 (rich):
After choosing car player could choose for example 5 setting packs of springs and dampers, 2 setting packs of gears and diffs from unlimited pool
Or 3 settings of spring packs and dampers, 2 setting packs of gears and 3 settings of diffs from unlimited pool.
Option 2(poor):
There is what there is, few settings each and that is it, not possible to choose from unlimited pool, car just has certain options and that is it.
For me these limitations feel like S3 stuff anyway, because physics and such should be solid until limitations should be applied, but sure those should be applied at some point at some way, for road cars limitations should be rather strict too, surely I would like to see different levels here so similar car with different suspension upgrades etc.
I can choose from 4 different differential ratios each around 50€ then if I like something more special it just costs more. Feasible is that I have two or three from rather large pool to choose from.
Feasible would be also to have 2 different sets of springs from again quite full range of options and adjustable dampers with 18 settings. Perfectly possible for otherwise perfectly standard car.
Adjustable brake balance is not a problem, could get such for rather ok price.
Removing seats could be nice option
But surely there should be way to limit this so that there would not be all of these in my garage but only those few, would be bit hard if I could not pick from all those possibilities that I could buy and could be odd if there would not be restrictions, how to solve this?
Option 1 (rich):
After choosing car player could choose for example 5 setting packs of springs and dampers, 2 setting packs of gears and diffs from unlimited pool
Or 3 settings of spring packs and dampers, 2 setting packs of gears and 3 settings of diffs from unlimited pool.
Option 2(poor):
There is what there is, few settings each and that is it, not possible to choose from unlimited pool, car just has certain options and that is it.
For me these limitations feel like S3 stuff anyway, because physics and such should be solid until limitations should be applied, but sure those should be applied at some point at some way, for road cars limitations should be rather strict too, surely I would like to see different levels here so similar car with different suspension upgrades etc.
I can choose from 4 different differential ratios each around 50€ then if I like something more special it just costs more. Feasible is that I have two or three from rather large pool to choose from.
Feasible would be also to have 2 different sets of springs from again quite full range of options and adjustable dampers with 18 settings. Perfectly possible for otherwise perfectly standard car.
Adjustable brake balance is not a problem, could get such for rather ok price.
Removing seats could be nice option
But surely there should be way to limit this so that there would not be all of these in my garage but only those few, would be bit hard if I could not pick from all those possibilities that I could buy and could be odd if there would not be restrictions, how to solve this?
Removing seats could change the class of the car. And I have no problem with changign the number of gear ratios available to only those possible with current engineering, but i still wanna have those options.
differential gears should be the same. Call DANA and you can order any of thier diffs with the gears of your choice. if i need a 4.567:1 ratio and the closest i can buy is a 4.57:1 i'll take it. no problem with that. (in preparation for a rce you could calculate pretty closely what gears would be close to what you need, but no need to limit what i take to the track)
Dampers, like was said, these can be and in many cases ARE built to spec for racing. same precision as pro teams but no more? fine. do i still want full control over my suspension? hell yes.
keep this goign on down the list and we could get along. GTi and Clubman versions of the car could be interesting
differential gears should be the same. Call DANA and you can order any of thier diffs with the gears of your choice. if i need a 4.567:1 ratio and the closest i can buy is a 4.57:1 i'll take it. no problem with that. (in preparation for a rce you could calculate pretty closely what gears would be close to what you need, but no need to limit what i take to the track)
Dampers, like was said, these can be and in many cases ARE built to spec for racing. same precision as pro teams but no more? fine. do i still want full control over my suspension? hell yes.
keep this goign on down the list and we could get along. GTi and Clubman versions of the car could be interesting
I would like to see more mechanically based adjustments, like we would choose the teeth on the gears, which determine the ratio, rather than picking a random ratio directly.
Likewise I'd like to pick ramp angles and clutches for the diffs rather than just picking a locking factor.
One question is in a sim, where you can do anything, would you want to constrain yourself to the same limitations that engineers would like to escape in real life?
Likewise I'd like to pick ramp angles and clutches for the diffs rather than just picking a locking factor.
One question is in a sim, where you can do anything, would you want to constrain yourself to the same limitations that engineers would like to escape in real life?
what he said ^
Based on that logic, why bother including damage of any sort in LFS? I'm sure that engineers would also like unbreakable parts of every kind, but they have to work with limitations that real life imposes.
I'd say that component damage is a hell of a lot more essential to recreating the spirit and feel or real racing, than worrying about if certain gear ratios exist in real life.
Couldn't insim be used to do all this? (settings restrictions)
Well, obviously that's true. I'm just saying that overcoming limitations imposed by RL just because it's a sim also detracts from the spirit and feel of real racing, because those limitations are an important part of the racing experience overall.
This isn't a case of extra information compensating for lack of feel, it's something that affects competition and begins to separtate setup artists from drivers - and LFS is about competition on the track.
I don't know for sure what side of this fence I'm on to be honest. I'm not so concerned with what would be readily available for the cars in question if they were real, but rather what could possible be made for them with money being no object. That being said, it would seem odd to be able to select from any set of ratios period, and not upgrade to a 6 speed box from a 5. So with continuity in mind, I would say that only a couple of diffs and very limited number (3?) sets of ratios should be available for road cars. Second highest gear would always need to be 1:1, and the highest gear an overdrive to be consistent with most roadgoing cars.
Actually, this is quite complex to think about what the limitations really should be. There's more to it than meets the eye
Realistic Set-up options
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