Quote from joen :

Yes, I mean the nurburgring. I think there's more to it than just inputting some track data and voila there's the track. I really think you're underestimating the time needed to do all aspects of creating of such a long track.

When making a fantasy track there's no accuracy needed in the sense of making it as close to the real one as possible.

This is where I'm confused, if there where someone who knew their stuff when it comes to this area I would like to ask them this question.

Can track data from other sim engines be converted into LFS track data? If so would the conversion take more time todo than to start mapping the ring from scratch?

Quote from CSU1 :

Can track data from other sim engines be converted into LFS track data? If so would the conversion take more time todo than to start mapping the ring from scratch?

Probably a question for Scawen.

Quote from The Moose :

[old man style rant] What the bloody hell is wrong with the youth of today? Why cant anyone concentrate for more than 5 mins at a time?
Why bother playing a SIMULATION if you cant be bothered to race for more than 5 mins?
Have you ever seen a 5 min race in real life?
Pah...If you cant race at least 30 laps on a decent length track don't try and pretend your a sim racer[/old man style rant]

I do prefer longer races, but the majority of the public dont. Hence why servers set for about 6/9min races are usually the most popular.

Quote :

" How many times do you race a small 5/8mins race and a few people join and just vote to restart."

Hmm, admittedly I've only been racing LFS for 6-7 weeks, but i race nearly every day and i've never seen that happen.

It's happened to me plenty of times, namely when it's a small group of us. Say like 5 racers. Then these people who have just joined like to continue pressing restart while they can clearly see a nice battle happening. I will often type a quick message saying "Race in progress..." but often they still keep voting. Then when the race does restart they are usually the ones who mess up the start and either A) vote to restart or B) Disconnect.

Keiran

Quote from CSU1 :

This is where I'm confused, if there where someone who knew their stuff when it comes to this area I would like to ask them this question.

Can track data from other sim engines be converted into LFS track data? If so would the conversion take more time todo than to start mapping the ring from scratch?

In the case of the Ring, the topography (rise and fall of the land that the track is built on) is easy to attain, a contour map is all that is needed. Contours can be fed into 3D programs in vector format for great accuracy, then a very accurate landscape can be created. BUT, that won't give you information about the bumpy or slippery parts of the circuit, the camber of each corner, the various (and numerous) textures of the tarmac, the scenery and trackside objects/landmarks etc, or the condition of the track surface. In kiddy games like Gran Turismo nobody cares too much about the details but in LFS you could expect complaints ad nauseum about every little detail or omission.

No existing game's track data will provide what racers will undoubtedly want for LFS. There is no point doing a half-baked job of it because (as we have seen with so many aspects of LFS thus far) too many people will whinge that it isn't perfect.

Instead of Nurburgring, id love a fantasy, vibe filled fullon city track.. bridges over the tracks with banners, tunnels etc.. =D

I hope nobody has forgot that the 'Ring is in GPL, and has all the stats ya need. Just a track converter, to get the old 'Ring I Hope nobody disses the current 'Ring..........................................................................

Would be cool if we could have the opinions of the devs in this point.

A fantasy track in the style of the Nordschleife would be great. This could be devided into smaller sections, just like Aston and so we have smaller tracks and one big "Ring". All we need is some hilly forest countryside. This track could also include the hillclimb feature mentioned some time ago. or Rally sections.

It's moer than jsut converting a track. LFS has it's own Graphical syle and just converting a track will leave you with a course that looks horridly out of place.

-10 (due to scale) for Nordeschliefe
+1 for the GP course
+1 for Bathurst
+1 for Mid Ohio

i wouldnt mind seeing this track in lfs, but would much rather see a similar fantsay track based of nurburg designed by the devs. Eric is great at track making.

Quote from Gunn :

In the case of the Ring, the topography (rise and fall of the land that the track is built on) is easy to attain, a contour map is all that is needed. Contours can be fed into 3D programs in vector format for great accuracy, then a very accurate landscape can be created. BUT, that won't give you information about the bumpy or slippery parts of the circuit, the camber of each corner, the various (and numerous) textures of the tarmac, the scenery and trackside objects/landmarks etc, or the condition of the track surface. In kiddy games like Gran Turismo nobody cares too much about the details but in LFS you could expect complaints ad nauseum about every little detail or omission.

No existing game's track data will provide what racers will undoubtedly want for LFS. There is no point doing a half-baked job of it because (as we have seen with so many aspects of LFS thus far) too many people will whinge that it isn't perfect.

I see but how do other sim developers like Gran Prix series do it? Would they have had to go to the ring and physically test different sections?

So it seems that the only way to get it right is to have three things.

Track topography(easily attainable)
Physical road surface texture of every sector of the track.
Surrounding scene data.

I know you are somewhat opposed to this idea reading that fruitfully worded post of yours

Also I believe sony own the rights to a part of the track so in that case I dont think our members would complain about a few Sony ads around the ring

Quote from CSU1 :

I see but how do other sim developers like Gran Prix series do it? Would they have had to go to the ring and physically test different sections?

So it seems that the only way to get it right is to have three things.

Track topography(easily attainable)
Physical road surface texture of every sector of the track.
Surrounding scene data.

I know you are somewhat opposed to this idea reading that fruitfully worded post of yours

Also I believe sony own the rights to a part of the track so in that case I dont think our members would complain about a few Sony ads around the ring

I'm not opposed to the idea, I just think that there is no difference whatsoever between a Nurburgring track and a ficticious track of similar character. I also believe that twenty-something cars can easily lose sight of each other on such a long circuit, which negates its value as an online racing environment for LFS. The inlcusion of the old Nurburgring in LFS doesn't strike me as being much of an improvement except that it means another track area to use.

Many people seem to want this track but not many people use long tracks in LFS. I think it is safe to say that a large number of players would struggle to complete even one lap without an incident. I'm keen for tough circuits and I love long circuits too, but I don't need this track and I think hype and history are playing a large role in people's desire for such a circuit.

Its a nice track, but a better idea would be Scwarzwald, a mythical track set in the German Black Forest with huge elavation changes

Personally I think the ring would be great in LFS, but NEVER EVER have a fantasy replacement - there is no point.

However, for the time being we shouldn't be worried about extra tracks and / or cars in LFS until the game is finished. There is just still too much stuff to do to LFS before we can even THINK about a new track / car.

everyone his own opinion, but the one from the devs will make the diference, idcare if there is going to be a Nordschleife track or not, i wouldnt race it that much just because its very long and lets say u hold a 5lap race, allot of people wouldnt made the 3 first laps. Gimme something like pikes peak, Scwarzwald, or bathurst

Kevin

Now might be a good time to point out that the correct spelling of the track is Nürburgring Nordschleife.

Do not even try to tell me that the umlaut does not matter.

There's been some good points fielded, but although I'd love to be able to drive the Nordschleife in LFS, the costs (both financial and as far as workload is concerned) would be immense. It took development teams of hundreds to get it into games like GT4 - can you really expect three mortals (the term 'mortal' is disputable, I'm still staggered at how three people can create such a game) to do the same job? It's just not possible for a small team to render a thirteen-mile-long track to anything like being accurate within any reasonable time scale. It'd be nice to have (I'd certainly never become tired of it), but let's think about practicalities.

DE

Quote from Dark Elite :

...I'm still staggered at how three people can create such a game...

No shit! Im floored to how this trio has made this game so good and no big wig company has tried to buy the game!

Id rather see them take this already awesome game and make it even more...awesome-er...then taking the time and effort to make a track that personaly, Im sick of driving. Id ride it, but not drive.

How many peole who Race at the real Nürburgring would love to have a decent Simulation of that Track, for practise purposes, there are people who only picked up Grand Prix Legends because they could drive the Nordschleife on it.
The value of having a real track in a driving Simulation cannot be overestimated, LFS is doing good without it so far, but it would be great and open a whole new Market if it could be used for Training purposes, and I'm sure alot of people would love to practise the Ring virtually and learn the track before they get out and drive it for real.

I have practised the A1 GP Track in Austria for hours on the PC before I drove on it for real, and I felt immediately comfortable and could push the car because I knew the track well before I did my first laps there.

Quote from Dark Elite :

Now might be a good time to point out that the correct spelling of the track is Nürburgring Nordschleife.

Do not even try to tell me that the umlaut does not matter.

IIRC it is acceptable if you cannot be arsed to use character map or cannot get umlauts to spell it Nuerburgring Norschleife.

Quote from duke_toaster :

IIRC it is acceptable if you cannot be arsed to use character map or cannot get umlauts to spell it Nuerburgring Norschleife.

Yep. Websites often replace umlauts with a suffixed 'e', as browsers don't like them. It's better than nothing

(I use ALT + 0 2 5 2 on the NumPad, which, interestingly, doesn't need to be turned on at the time)

DE

Quote from George Kuyumji :

How many peole who Race at the real Nürburgring would love to have a decent Simulation of that Track, for practise purposes, there are people who only picked up Grand Prix Legends because they could drive the Nordschleife on it.
The value of having a real track in a driving Simulation cannot be overestimated, LFS is doing good without it so far, but it would be great and open a whole new Market if it could be used for Training purposes, and I'm sure alot of people would love to practise the Ring virtually and learn the track before they get out and drive it for real.

I have practised the A1 GP Track in Austria for hours on the PC before I drove on it for real, and I felt immediately comfortable and could push the car because I knew the track well before I did my first laps there.

I second that As super as LFS is as a racing sim the only barrier it needs to overcome to become that-much-closer to reality is to have real tracks.

Why we want this type of content is not just address the latest fad or to buy into brands overhyped by media but to be able to say "I drove a real track in the worlds most technically advanced racing simulator, but the current nature of the way this sim is being develped leaves slim chance of acquiring copyrighted goodies into the sim...which is an awfull shame...but not a whole shame because as we all know if you want something that someone else has, they will want some of yours(keeping the fat cat's claws out of the larder).

Quote from CSU1 :

I second that As super as LFS is as a racing sim the only barrier it needs to overcome to become that-much-closer to reality is to have real tracks.

There is no barrier to overcome. LFS doesn't need real tracks.

Quote from Gunn :

There is no barrier to overcome. LFS doesn't need real tracks.

Everyone to his own, but I'd bet there are hoards of racing nut's with money in-hand who would also like drive tracks which have stood the test of time and are nostalgicly stimulating to drive on Me for one.

Quote from CSU1 :

Everyone to his own, but I'd bet there are hoards of racing nut's with money in-hand who would also like drive tracks which have stood the test of time and are nostalgically stimulating to drive on Me for one.

+1

Quote from Gunn :

There is no barrier to overcome. LFS doesn't need real tracks.

It doesnt "need" it, but it should of course have one. Any serious Simulator should have a real Track.

Why? Personally, I couldn't care less if there is a RL track in there, although it surely would be nice to have one...