I'd rather have a bus in LFS, and yes, I am being serious, that would be some ****ing hilarious racing.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I'd rather have a bus in LFS, and yes, I am being serious, that would be some ****ing hilarious racing.

i think the uf1 is as slow as a bus. I know I'll go make a bus skin for the uf1!

Quote from EvilVendingMachine :

Well, no oval driver has moved into F1(to my knowledge), so there is no way to tell if they would be successfull. Jeff Gordon took a spin in an
F1 car a couple of years ago and was running competitive laps fairly quickly. If any oval driver has moved to F1, please tell me about it.
I would be very interested.

Well that's because most of them cannot make it into F1.

Micheal Andretti, the indy500 winner, raced in F1 in 1993, only scored 7 points in his 13 race season( while his team mate senna, in the same car, won 5 races, took second place in the world championship) before he quit and returned to america.

This is quite a good thread actually.

WTH is Cascar?

I don't think anyone can deny that all forms of motorsport have their challenges, and they are diverse challenges for different forms. Motocross for example always tilts my chicken; those guys are amazing! Even drag as Cueball pointed out is a lot more involved than it appears. I once saw a 9.x second car that could not put one decent run together. One of them was laying rubber all the way down the track because his suspension setup was poop. His competitor's car got the front of the car about 15 inches off the ground on every launch and ran 9s, whilst all Mr Smoke was able to do was light em up no matter what he did.

I guess this is just another endless debate

At least this isn't as nasty as the other ones

I don't want a bus until the collision physics are complete

Quote from JJ72 :

Well that's because most of them cannot make it into F1.

Micheal Andretti, the indy500 winner, raced in F1 in 1993, only scored 7 points in his 13 race season( while his team mate senna, in the same car, won 5 races, took second place in the world championship) before he quit and returned to america.

Ah i feel much better after that few hour nap

It goes both ways. I have yet to see a F1 driver, do well in Nascar. Montoya so far is comming the closest (15th in points, not bad not bad at all) and he might win a race in the near future. However, his team needs to work on his CoT races. He could barely keep up with even Kenny Wallace at Bristol LOL.

Cascar: Canadian association for stock car auto racing. From what I've been told by the ppl here, Cascar is not popular what so ever.

There's millions of stock car racing, just Nascar, ARCA, and USAR are the most popular ones. (And they all are coincidentally in the USA)

Mansell did well in the Champcar oval rounds, so that counts? it's not nascar but it's still oval.

I for one think it's rather slim chance for circuit racers to enter the oval scene cos it's still very strictly an american sport, most accomplised drivers won't like to go there, they will rather race sports car or GT. Be it a factor of the generalization towards oval racing or the cause of it.

For the other way though, Oval racers ain't always interested in F1 since F1 isn't that popular in the states, and where Nascar is a much bigger sport.

Please can you explain to me how it being easier to gain places makes it more competitive? I was under the impression, mainly due to the English language, that competition increases when your competitors are more competitive; not less. If one guy is massively ahead it's because he's massively better, thus making the competition harder.

I've nothing against people loving NASCAR although it does nothing for me. But there seems to be a growing trend lately with NASCAR fans on international car forums of a kind of pro-active paranoid defence of their beloved sport. To the point of trying to make it out to be the pinnacle of motorsport, instead of just accepting it for what it is and enjoying it no matter what.

Quote from JJ72 :

...
Micheal Andretti, the indy500 winner, ...

Err when?

For me the only car type that would be of any significant difference to what we already have in LFS would be prototypes. Imagine hacking round Aston National in an Audi R8 equivalent.

These cars have major grunt and top end speed and would be a buzz to drive on high speed circuits. Aston Historic would be perfect for these cars.

A few things i have remembered-
I beleive Montoya actually raced CART before going to F1, or maybe it Champcar, or maybe this was before the two series split, I don't know.

Cascar was actually bought by Nascar not too long ago.

Quote from mrodgers :

And finally, Robby Gordon came FROM Baja racing and, did he do Indycar? I think. THEN he got into Nascar.

Yes, Robby Gordon did race Indy cars. (I remember him bitching a few years back about Danika Patrick being so light and it being an unfair advantage.)

Quote from EvilVendingMachine :

Cascar was actually bought by Nascar not too long ago.

CASCAR Super Series is becoming the NASCAR Canadian Tyre Series - NASCAR are also starting a Mexican series as well. Rumour has it that for 2008 or 2009 they will change over to the Busch series regulations.

I think CASCAR run a silly A1GP style season, but I'm not sure.

The sooner Canadian Tyre Series and Corona Mexico change to Busch rulebooks. Corona Mexico uses the previous Mexican series' rules, and Canadian Tyre Series uses the old CASCAR cars.

The CaTS (Note the "a" to not get confused with the trucks) probably will act as a support event at Pocono unless the Trucks or Busch race at NASCAR's most interesting track. The only problem is that 500 miles is too much for Pocono and maybe 400 miles would be more appropriate, it's very shallow and very odd.

Actually, Nextel Cup Stock Cars (NASCAR's top class) is quite a bit different to anything we have in LFS:

Weight. ~3400+lbs ~1550kg Heavy.
Tires. The tires are much narrower than the GTR class.
Power. V8 with ~800hp. Powerband 5500-9000+RPM
Downforce. Very little.
Solid Rear Axle. 4-Speed manual.

Around Kyoto, a cup car would really be tricky, able to get some huge speed 200+ mph, but would really take a lot of skill and patience to get through the turns. It would be a real handful to go side-by-side esp round the start-finish area. Definatly requiring braking in the turns.

Driving them around a road course would really require a lot of skill/patience. So much power with so little tire/downforce would really be very tricky & frustrating to 'n00bs'. The really aren't particularly rewarding cars to drive as far as I can tell.

Do I want one in LFS.... Not particularly.

There are NASCAR games already out there.
Oval racing around kyoto would Not be easy, therefore unpopular.
A talladega track would provide good Cup racing, but a total waste for everything else in LFS.
Short-track might be fun, but the thrill would wear off quick, too much wrecking for casual online.

There are Many things I'd like in LFS before NASCAR (more AI racers).

Quote from EeekiE :

Please can you explain to me how it being easier to gain places makes it more competitive? I was under the impression, mainly due to the English language, that competition increases when your competitors are more competitive; not less. If one guy is massively ahead it's because he's massively better, thus making the competition harder.

Well if that was true, then F1 would be considered competitive. IMO, a motorsport is competitive when more than just 5 cars are fast. In F1, after the start of the race you can tell that about 3 to 5 cars have a chance to win. In Nascar, even if there is only 25 laps to go, there is still about 10 to 15 cars that are fast [I know there is only like 5 to 10, but something could happen(pit strategy) that changes the whole race]. So I think Nascar is more competitive because they have many more cars that have a chance to win.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Well if that was true, then F1 would be considered competitive. IMO, a motorsport is competitive when more than just 5 cars are fast. In F1, after the start of the race you can tell that about 3 to 5 cars have a chance to win. In Nascar, even if there is only 25 laps to go, there is still about 10 to 15 cars that are fast [I know there is only like 5 to 10, but something could happen(pit strategy) that changes the whole race]. So I think Nascar is more competitive because they have many more cars that have a chance to win.

Yeah, because they have 43 entrants every weekend, mainly 3 and 4 car teams. You let all the F1 teams have 4 cars and 40+ entries, there will be the same number of competative cars as NASCAR.

I was looking at it in a Darwin sense, in that, if you fall behind in skill/tech you're out of the race.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Yeah, because they have 43 entrants every weekend, mainly 3 and 4 car teams. You let all the F1 teams have 4 cars and 40+ entries, there will be the same number of competative cars as NASCAR.

Not really. Not all teams have 4 cars, only a few. Most teams just have 1 or 2. Lots of teams are stuggling with just 1 or 2 cars in the field. Only the big or compedative teams like Childress, DEI, Hendrick and Roush has 3-4 cars.

Furnature Row Racing has only 1 car, Front Row Motorsports has only 1 car, BAM Racing has only 1 car, Ganassi has 2 cars, and Red Bull has 2 cars, Petty Enterprise has only 2 cars.
And dont forget the independent teams like Faith Motorsports, Ash Racing, and Shelmerdine Racing with only, once again, 1 car.

And they dont have 43 entries, they have around 49-55 each race. Just the top 43 make it into the race. Dont compare nascar to F1, nascar has millions of teams.

Dont forget in Nascar, ALL THE CARS, are a factor. It's an oval not a road course so the field wont be so spread out. Lapped cars will make a huge difference in the out come of a race (especially since they restart double file).

In a road course, after a few minutes the field will be so spread out that you'll end up racing only a few people. In nascar, you almost always race in a pack because the field is so bunched up.

Quote from lizardfolk :

Not really. Not all teams have 4 cars, only a few. Most teams just have 1 or 2. Lots of teams are stuggling with just 1 or 2 cars in the field. Only the big or compedative teams like Childress, DEI, Hendrick and Roush has 3-4 cars.

Furnature Row Racing has only 1 car, Front Row Motorsports has only 1 car, BAM Racing has only 1 car, Ganassi has 2 cars, and Red Bull has 2 cars, Petty Enterprise has only 2 cars.
And dont forget the independent teams like Faith Motorsports, Ash Racing, and Shelmerdine Racing with only, once again, 1 car.

And they dont have 43 entries, they have around 49-55 each race. Just the top 43 make it into the race. Dont compare nascar to F1, nascar has millions of teams.

Dont forget in Nascar, ALL THE CARS, are a factor. It's an oval not a road course so the field wont be so spread out. Lapped cars will make a huge difference in the out come of a race (especially since they restart double file).

In a road course, after a few minutes the field will be so spread out that you'll end up racing only a few people. In nascar, you almost always race in a pack because the field is so bunched up.

Yeah but you're assuming everyone wants to see cars all bunched up. I for one don't. I like the how circuit races end up being loads of personal 1v1 battles. I like how circuits are that demanding it carves up the pack.
The fact NASCAR is easy enough for them all to group hug ISN'T a bonus in my eyes, it's a negative.

Quote from EeekiE :

Yeah but you're assuming everyone wants to see cars all bunched up. I for one don't. I like the how circuit races end up being loads of personal 1v1 battles. I like how circuits are that demanding it carves up the pack.
The fact NASCAR is easy enough for them all to group hug ISN'T a bonus in my eyes, it's a negative.

Here's where there's a difference in taste and probably the ultimate reason for a division between road courses and oval fans.

I love racing in a pack. It's incredibly fun and the race could be won by anyone.

You'll get 1vs1 battles in ovals but it doesnt happen as often as a road course. Where ovals are fun is going 3-4 wide with 20 cars within 2 seconds of you and trying still to beat everyone to the finish.

Of course what is fun and what is not really depends on your racing taste.

Quote from EeekiE :

I've nothing against people loving NASCAR although it does nothing for me. But there seems to be a growing trend lately with NASCAR fans on international car forums of a kind of pro-active paranoid defence of their beloved sport. To the point of trying to make it out to be the pinnacle of motorsport, instead of just accepting it for what it is and enjoying it no matter what.

Replying to your previous post Eeekie:

Your probably refering to me. However, I never said ovals is the best kind of racing there is. I love road courses as much as the next guy, however I'd prefer ovals over road courses. (for reasons i explained in my previous post)

I was probably too hostile when I came here and I apologize for that. However, since this is mainly international forum, I expected everyone who's not a nascar fan (which I assumed that everyone here isen't a nascar or oval fan) to bash on ovals.

There's been countless of time where I've been banned just because I prefer ovals more than road courses. Oval fans may be a little "paranoid", but there's a cause for it.

I've no problems with that like I said, but for a while the thread went off on a tangent trying to show how more challenging than anything else, when it isn't; but that's OK. It's like you can be a fan of running, but be utterly disinterested in triathlon, because swimming and cycling don't entertain you as much as the running. That doesn't mean running is easy, but it doesn't mean just running is harder than triathlon. Where more and different skills are required. But perhaps the running side of moving about is what really gets you going and you live for, that's cool.

Atleast we're reasoning rather than resorting to insults or that shockwave flash insult you've been dying to use because you saw it used somewhere else

Quote from lizardfolk :

Not really. Not all teams have 4 cars, only a few. Most teams just have 1 or 2. Lots of teams are stuggling with just 1 or 2 cars in the field. Only the big or competitive teams like Childress, DEI, Hendrick and Roush has 3-4 cars.

You drunk again? lol anyway, you seem to be exgagerating a little. At most Nascar
races, the battles are 2 to 5 car battles. The cars still get spread out, just not as
much as in road course racing.

Quote from EvilVendingMachine :

You drunk again? lol anyway, you seem to be exgagerating a little. At most Nascar
races, the battles are 2 to 5 car battles. The cars still get spread out, just not as
much as in road course racing.

I've been drinking a bit but not to the point where i'm drunk (i think )

I really depends on the track. In Pheonix the racing is usually single file. But in Daytona and Talladega (and all short tracks) it's exactly like how I descibed it.

I may have exaggerated a little, but of course i've been watching USAR (short track series) more than nascar recently.

Quote from lizardfolk :

And they dont have 43 entries, they have around 49-55 each race. Just the top 43 make it into the race. Dont compare nascar to F1, nascar has millions of teams.

Dont forget in Nascar, ALL THE CARS, are a factor. It's an oval not a road course so the field wont be so spread out. Lapped cars will make a huge difference in the out come of a race (especially since they restart double file).

Nascar doesn't have Millions of teams, stop being rediculous.

Last time I checked, NASCAR and F1 are both forms of Motorsports, so Why can't I compare them? Montoya has done both, so can he compare them?

Like I said, each Nextel Cup race has 43 entrants. And No, its not the top 43 of the ~50 qualifiers that make the race. After last weekend, the top 35 in points are gaurenteed spots, then past championship provisionals, then the rest of the 43 spots are determined by speed.

There is no "Nascar". NASCAR stands for the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing.

All cars don't matter in NASCAR. In the Busch Series, Truck Series, and other regional circuits, many many cars don't finish the race, and not because of crashes. Lesser funded teams in Busch will qualify, race a couple of laps, then pull off with "handling issues" just to collect the last place money. The Truck series usually only has 25-35 trucks per race, many without major sponsorship. And I suppose all the cars that DNF for mechanical and crashes really impact the remaining cars.

Actually NASCAR competes on road courses across the country and beyond. Did you miss Montoya taking the Busch racers to school in Mexico City, Mexico?

Lapped cars impact the races, sometimes. Superspeedways, not really. Road courses, infrequently. Californa and Michigan, maybe. 1.5 mile ovals, every now and then. Short tracks, sure, but they're not taking leaders out every race. Double file restarts are only with more than 10 laps to go.

Stop the overexagerating.

And F1 isn't the biggest Motorsport in my neck of the woods by a long way anyway. Biggest thing at the moment seems to be the Superbikes, followed by WRC and BTCC.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Nascar doesn't have Millions of teams, stop being rediculous.

There is no "Nascar". NASCAR stands for the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing.

Ya ok I'm exaggerating. But did you even read my previous post??? That's EXACTLY what I've said. It's easier to refer to Nascar, but of you want to be technical then I'll say Stock Car Racing from now on.

Quote from srdsprinter :

All cars don't matter in NASCAR. In the Busch Series, Truck Series, and other regional circuits, many many cars don't finish the race, and not because of crashes. Lesser funded teams in Busch will qualify, race a couple of laps, then pull off with "handling issues" just to collect the last place money. The Truck series usually only has 25-35 trucks per race, many without major sponsorship. And I suppose all the cars that DNF for mechanical and crashes really impact the remaining cars.

Actually NASCAR competes on road courses across the country and beyond. Did you miss Montoya taking the Busch racers to school in Mexico City, Mexico?

Lapped cars impact the races, sometimes. Superspeedways, not really. Road courses, infrequently. Californa and Michigan, maybe. 1.5 mile ovals, every now and then. Short tracks, sure, but they're not taking leaders out every race. Double file restarts are only with more than 10 laps to go.

You did not see the race where 7 laps down car Kevin Lepage ruined the win for Jimmie Johnson. Johnson was cool about it, but it pissed a lot of people fans. This happens quite often where leaders will sometimes sometimes get bogged down in lap traffic. Sometimes the victim is the lapped car itself. Expecially in short tracks. I agree, in superspeedways (except talladega) the cars are greatly spread out. In 1.5 miles not as much but there's still large empty spots on the track. Still a lot bunched up then a road course.

Road courses in nascar happen only 2 races. At Infinion, and Watkins Glen. That's it. 2 out of 35 races is really nothing special. (This is Nextel only, I dont watch Busch so I dont know their schedual, but I believe they add another road course: Mexico City)

The mexican nascar series (Corona series) will probably have more road courses.