Hey,

We hear so much about wheels, but not all of us can afford them. So I'm wondering how many fast guys are out there using joysticks, and what type of settings they use. Also, how they find using it in terms of lap times. I mostly race fox at as2, and i'm about 1.8 off WR sometimes it seems so hard to get the car through the first part of the chicane to make the apex. I have to use over half wheel turn (in car), while I notice most wheel users are using less than half; some only use a quarter. Obviously this is about controller setup.

Cause steering is so quick with most setups, I have to run smoothing at max, and steering lock between 9-16 deg (depending on car - 10 in the fox). Any more, and the steering is too quick to finess.

So I'm curious how some of you other joystick users fair.

Venus

Driving a car with a Joystick?
Why don't you look for a flight sim fan who flies his Boeing with a wheel and change controllers?

Anyway I have the feeling that a mouse is better suited for controlling a car and you can see lots of mouse drivers pretty close to wr's at some tracks (mainly with slower cars though).

But I would recommend a wheel, a used Momo from Ebay won't empty your bank account IMO

Quote from csimpok :

Anyway I have the feeling that a mouse is better suited for controlling a car and you can see lots of mouse drivers pretty close to wr's at some tracks (mainly with slower cars though).

But I would recommend a wheel, a used Momo from Ebay won't empty your bank account IMO

or a driving force pro

If you don't have much money, have a look for a cheaper wheel, like a Logitech Formula Force GP - you can get a second hand one now for hardly anything, ie. half the price of S2. I had one before my DFP and it was a good wheel. I would still be using it if I hadn't killed the motor connector pins.

I used to drive GPL with a joystick. I remember when I changed to a wheel and pedals (the FF GP), I wondered if I would ever be able to control it. For a while I was actually slower than I was with the joystick.

Some of the fastest guys in oz use a joystick. Bugle and Chaz, look em up Although I don't think they're human.

my teammate rcpilot, who is very very quick, uses a joystick almost exclusively.

yeh I don't doubt you can be quick. As for get a wheel... sigh... if I could afford a wheel, I'd get one lol... as it is, I'm lucky if I can afford food tomorrow (and thats the truth). lol

I'm just wondering, what sort of controller setups some of those fast joystick guys use. I might learn something. lol

V

I use an old MS Sidewinder Pro and have to admit I struggle with it, so I would also be interested in how others have their joysticks setup. Throttle and brake response are ok but steering is an issue. I can change the steering lock values in the car setup from one extreme to another but don't get any feel for the changes

The main problem I have is a deadzone issue. It may well be that I have a junk joystick but I can't figure out how to increase the deadzone. The result is that I always have to pull back on the stick except when braking and have to constantly correct the steering as letting go of the stick steers the car to one side or the other. No wonder I can hardly move my hand and have to quit after an hour

Unfortunately a wheel setup is not an option for several reasons, so should I get a different stick or is there a setting I can tweak?

I would be grateful for any advice.

Well; I don't know about others. But these are the settings I use:

Options/Misc. Smoothing set to max 0.90
Options/Controls:
Controller Wheel turns: 180 deg
Wheel turn compensation: Full 1:00

Steering lock varies between 9-16 deg. In the Fox I use 10 (at as2), in the UF1000 at SO5 I use 12. XFG BL1 is 16.

I'm not fast; but I can keep the car pretty much pointed where I want it (though once you get past 180 deg of car wheel; wheel turn is more sudden n harder to finess.

As for deadzone; I'd love to add some deadzone; particularly in the centre. But as for car going straight. Really there's only one option. Toe In. Typically; I'll use -0.1 to -0.2, unless it will slow me down too much; then I live with the wandering.

Some of the fast guys configs would help alot... anyone?

V

Thanks Venus, I'll give your settings a try and see how I get on.

I use a joystick. I set it to wheel turns 90deg and wheel compensation 1.00.

For me, it's much better than kb/mouse. You can properly control the throttle and brake (just not both at once).

I'm using an old Micrcosoft Sidewinder joystick, and I feel just fine. Not only are wheels expensive, but they take up space. A joystick is the right choice if you can't afford a wheel but don't want to use the mouse .

Quote from csimpok :

Driving a car with a Joystick?
Why don't you look for a flight sim fan who flies his Boeing with a wheel and change controllers?

I know a racer who uses a joystick. Why? he can not walk. The mice are boring

Quote from Richardf :

Unfortunately a wheel setup is not an option for several reasons, so should I get a different stick or is there a setting I can tweak?

I used to use an original xbox controller (not the small one) and found I could get quite good prescion, so if you have one of them lying arround it would be worth getting it to work on a PC

Otherwise look at the post in the link below for more ideas. I was able to get within 1 sec of WR times with an xbox controller most times and now with a wheel I'm a little faster but not radically faster, so imo there is nothing wrong with joystick control, infact it has many advantages like takes up less space and you can setup and jump into a race within seconds

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=59157#post59157

One thing I notice is people tend to go too far in getting rid of sensitivity in joysticks, when for being fast you want a high reponsiveness to some degree. I recommend not using dead zones and moderating the use of steer smooth etc. and allowing time to get used to the settings.

Quote from Glenn67 :

One thing I notice is people tend to go too far in getting rid of sensitivity in joysticks, when for being fast you want a high reponsiveness to some degree. I recommend not using dead zones and moderating the use of steer smooth etc. and allowing time to get used to the settings.

I am going to give this approach a try. I tried the settings posted by Venus and found that I needed huge amounts of steering lock to compensate for the smoothness, I just didn't feel comfortable.

A few months ago I tried a gamepad type controller for a couple of weeks and found myself doing the same sort of laptimes as with the joystick. I think this tells me that my speed is mostly not down to the controller I use, I just lack the basic coordination.

Edit: I just tried the ultra sensitive approach and it worked quite well. It allowed me to drop the steering lock setting which I think give a more controlled turn-in. I didn't improve my laptimes at all though, they were the same as usual so I need to work more on setups I think. One setting I could not reduce was throttle/brake centre reduction. Even if I have it set fully to 1 I still have some braking input when I let go of the stick because after calibration the neutral postion on the stick gives me 50% brake applied. I use forward on the joystick for braking and assume others do too.

I tried using the more sensitive settings, but found it totally impossible to be precise. The wheel was constantly all over the place. My problem with controller; is once the car wheel gets to 180, it quickly jumps to 270. Unfortunately, the 0-270 range is just the range i need precision..

Yes it does steer more, but I compensate for that with wheel lock. I"m constantly changing lock on diffnt cars/tracks.

Wish I had a pad around, might be interesting method. Question about the gamepad (PS), they don't really plug into USB though do they?

Venus

Quote from Venus :

I tried using the more sensitive settings, but found it totally impossible to be precise. The wheel was constantly all over the place. My problem with controller; is once the car wheel gets to 180, it quickly jumps to 270. Unfortunately, the 0-270 range is just the range i need precision..

Yes it does steer more, but I compensate for that with wheel lock. I"m constantly changing lock on diffnt cars/tracks.

Wish I had a pad around, might be interesting method. Question about the gamepad (PS), they don't really plug into USB though do they?

Venus

Well maybe if you all post in the right forum you might get an answer to the questions you have, I dont se how this is a 'general LFS discussion'

Quote from Venus :

I tried using the more sensitive settings, but found it totally impossible to be precise. The wheel was constantly all over the place. My problem with controller; is once the car wheel gets to 180, it quickly jumps to 270. Unfortunately, the 0-270 range is just the range i need precision..

I always went with 100% linear response on the steering and found that much more easy to get good prescion in corners. Oversteering in LFS has a very large hit on lap times and should be avoided at all costs

The xbox controller was great for that because it had 2 analog triggers as well as 2 sticks I had it set so that one trigger was brake the other throttle, the right stick as steering and the left stick the look function. It's fairly easy to make the xbox controller work on a PC USB port, if you do a search on xbox looking for posts by B2B@300 you will find some info about it.

Quote from Richardf :

I just tried the ultra sensitive approach and it worked quite well. It allowed me to drop the steering lock setting which I think give a more controlled turn-in. I didn't improve my laptimes at all though, they were the same as usual so I need to work more on setups I think. One setting I could not reduce was throttle/brake centre reduction. Even if I have it set fully to 1 I still have some braking input when I let go of the stick because after calibration the neutral postion on the stick gives me 50% brake applied. I use forward on the joystick for braking and assume others do too.

Give it more time to get used to the new settings and your lap times will improve also I was going to make the suggestion before that you use keyboard for brake and accelerate and the joystick just for steering. Doing steering and throttle/brake on the same stick would make it dificult to be consistently precise imo

I'm still using my XBox 1 controller, all default settings in LFS, seperate axis for accellerator/brake (using the triggers), it works well as at the mo I'm just using a laptop on my lap! No problem with dead zones, I adjusted myself to the sensitivity rather than vica versa, which took a little practise

Still, at some point I'll get a wheel ...

Quote from JamesK :

Still, at some point I'll get a wheel ...

The only reason I got a momo wheel was because the xbox controller finally died from over use!

Yeah, they do have a limited lifespan, lol

Quote from Glenn67 :

I was going to make the suggestion before that you use keyboard for brake and accelerate and the joystick just for steering. Doing steering and throttle/brake on the same stick would make it dificult to be consistently precise imo

I am an idiot. I always thought that having throttle or brake on a button would give an uncontrollable digital response but I was wrong. I took this advice and mapped the throttle and brake to the joystick's trigger and thumb buttons and within 5 laps I was faster than using the analogue throttle and brake I've been using for the last 3 and half years. Braking and turn in are now so much more relaxed. Thanks Glenn67.