Okay, here's the question:

Suppose there's a skin that contains inflammatory language to some or perhaps graphics and it's posted in the skin forum.

Suppose some in the LFS community complain to the skinner about the undertones of the skin, would it be illegal for a user to adopt that skin removing the offensive stuff and replacing it with accepatable language?

On the other hand, reading the posts in the skin forum and reading about the intent of posting skins there, it leads me to believe that we can use any skin uploaded there unless the skinner states that it's private. Maybe I'm wrong, but if it's private why upload it?

When uploading to LFSW it states quite clearly
Rules and regulations:
DO NOT upload skins which contain offensive images!
If a skin that contains nudity, pornographic, racist or any other extremely offensive content is uploaded, the skin(s) will be removed without notice and you will no longer be allowed to upload skins here.

So 'illegal' no, it doesnt exactly break laws as such, but as it says, it'd be removed and before long you'd be shown the door.


If you dont upload it to LFSW then nobody can see it but yourself, if you upload it onto the forum to show it off, then thats simply all your doing. You can look at photos all over the net, but you try using some of them without the expressed right to and see how that goes. Its the property of the owner, and its their call.
But regardless of that if something is NOT for other people, then thats how it is, if i do something and say nobody else can have what i've made then thats my right as the creator, just because someone choses to show something off doesnt make it acceptable to ignore the request of the maker.
No ifs, buts, or maybe's.

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

Hi,

today i saw two people who are using our team skins... i spent several hours to create them.... and then there are thefts.... is there a possibility to prevent thefts from stealing team skins? or to tell an admin?

MfG

Trekker

I think you mean theaves...
(if i spelt it right)

Quote from Jakg :

nope, only way is to follow them an have a go at them - and to make sure your skins have private written on them.

What i did when someone who refused to talk to me about nicking my skins was rather cunning - re-upload a new skin to LFSW, they will see the skin on their PC (as LFS will not download if a version exists in Skins), while everyone else see's the new one - here is the new skin

brilliant

It woulden't be to hard to make an archive file called skins_x and have LFS dump them there instead of the folder.

It's even possible to just use a .zip file and have a password on it so only LFS can change it's contents or even see the contents.

I know this because the Duke Nukem HRP, a third party high ress mod for Duke3d uses zip files to store the contents and the port just simply reads the contents, its a bit slower if they are actualy compressed but they don't have to be.
If you write it properly then LFS will be able to use a password to get into it and no one else will know (unless they REALY want to)

and to solve the problem of wanting to clean the folder (archive), you can delete the skins from inside LFS but can't do anything else with them.

It's not hack proof, but it would add just that much more security.
You could even have it compress the files so people can't complain so much about the number of skins they have to download and the size it takes on there HDD.

and in case team size comes in to play, I belive it's only one man who works on the port that actualy uses the files, the content is made by some people who just simply asked him if they could use it.

Quote from DragonCommando :

It woulden't be to hard to make an archive file called skins_x and have LFS dump them there instead of the folder.

It's even possible to just use a .zip file and have a password on it so only LFS can change it's contents or even see the contents.

I know this because the Duke Nukem HRP, a third party high ress mod for Duke3d uses zip files to store the contents and the port just simply reads the contents, its a bit slower if they are actualy compressed but they don't have to be.
If you write it properly then LFS will be able to use a password to get into it and no one else will know (unless they REALY want to)

and to solve the problem of wanting to clean the folder (archive), you can delete the skins from inside LFS but can't do anything else with them.

It's not hack proof, but it would add just that much more security.
You could even have it compress the files so people can't complain so much about the number of skins they have to download and the size it takes on there HDD.

and in case team size comes in to play, I belive it's only one man who works on the port that actualy uses the files, the content is made by some people who just simply asked him if they could use it.

or make a skins_private folder and have LFSW upload skins marked "private" in there. and encriped that folder

Quote from l1k3z0mg :

I think you mean theaves...
(if i spelt it right)

Ahem.

"thieves"

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Ahem.

"thieves"

hehe, pedantic sods the pair of you (and if thats spelt wrong i dont care for the correct spelling either )



Dragon/Zoomy
Its one way of doing it i guess, a little messy and could be slow or problematic trying to check that the skins havent been updated or arent in your archive.
Still, whatever protection is given its always going to be complicated and more hassle than the issue really warrants.

I dont want the skins i've created being used by anyone i havent given expressed permission to, just like many other people, however the whole issue is rather isolated and minor that its quite tricky trying to justify someone taking the time to do all that just because a handful or muppets voilate people's requests. Take a look at LFS and the stage its at, the size of the workforce and then look at the other alternatives out there in comparison, and then say time needs to be spent stopping this from happening. It would be nice to see this implemented, but i wouldnt hold my breath on anything materialising (as with 99% of suggestions in general) for any resonable period of time if ever.
Still, as a solution to a problem it seems viable and more managable compared to alternatives (esp as its a mix of web and game coding required).

Quote from PaulC2K :

hehe, pedantic sods the pair of you (and if thats spelt wrong i dont care for the correct spelling either )



Dragon/Zoomy
Its one way of doing it i guess, a little messy and could be slow or problematic trying to check that the skins havent been updated or arent in your archive.
Still, whatever protection is given its always going to be complicated and more hassle than the issue really warrants.

I dont want the skins i've created being used by anyone i havent given expressed permission to, just like many other people, however the whole issue is rather isolated and minor that its quite tricky trying to justify someone taking the time to do all that just because a handful or muppets voilate people's requests. Take a look at LFS and the stage its at, the size of the workforce and then look at the other alternatives out there in comparison, and then say time needs to be spent stopping this from happening. It would be nice to see this implemented, but i wouldnt hold my breath on anything materialising (as with 99% of suggestions in general) for any resonable period of time if ever.
Still, as a solution to a problem it seems viable and more managable compared to alternatives (esp as its a mix of web and game coding required).

after looking through my skins_x folder I see that most are 512x512 format anyway. so hardly usable

They all come at 512x512 over LFSW, but people still steal them...

Quote from l1k3z0mg :

I think you mean theaves...
(if i spelt it right)

No lol he was right. And your spelling was wrong. The correct word was theft... your version was theives. lol... pedantic yeh lol...

V

If were going to be pedantic at least make sure your being pedantic about the right word

"today i saw two people who are using our team skins... i spent several hours to create them.... and then there are thefts.... is there a possibility to prevent thefts from stealing team skins? or to tell an admin?"
Hence the word 'Thieves' which was being corrected.

'Theft' is the act
'Thieves' are the people doing it.
'Theaves' is what bad spellers accuse Thieves of being
'Theives' is how i my fingers keep wanting to type 'Thieves'

Quote from PaulC2K :

If were going to be pedantic at least make sure your being pedantic about the right word

"today i saw two people who are using our team skins... i spent several hours to create them.... and then there are thefts.... is there a possibility to prevent thefts from stealing team skins? or to tell an admin?"
Hence the word 'Thieves' which was being corrected.

'Theft' is the act
'Thieves' are the people doing it.
'Theaves' is what bad spellers accuse Thieves of being
'Theives' is how i my fingers keep wanting to type 'Thieves'

lol... u're right

I've seen someone wearing the n1Racing team skin too. Being a nice person ( ), I asked him to change skin and he did. He just didn't know it was a team skin

I pitched up on the STCC server once using a CRC skin and someone accused me of stealing it immediately. I was racing and they said "Gentlefoot - thats a CRC skin". I ignored them because I was racing. Then they said "Are you a member of the CRC?" I was racing so I just hit the button because I can't type and drive. Then they accused me of stealing it. lol

I wish people wouldn't ask for my sets, accuse me of things when I don't have the time to respond.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

I pitched up on the STCC server once using a CRC skin and someone accused me of stealing it immediately. I was racing and they said "Gentlefoot - thats a CRC skin". I ignored them because I was racing. Then they said "Are you a member of the CRC?" I was racing so I just hit the button because I can't type and drive. Then they accused me of stealing it. lol

I wish people wouldn't ask for my sets, accuse me of things when I don't have the time to respond.

I use to block messages when I get serious on track, mostly because I often start reading some of chat and miss braking points but that helps with questions and stuff too

Anyway I would think that it is good driver code not to chat those who are in race at the moment, at least when I join to server I usually wait for race to end before saying Hi or getting on track at all, seems polite and correct to do it like this.

Those who are not polite don't deserve attention, imo

Quote from Vykos69 :

Just my 2 cents:

About 99.9% of all skins use non licensed textures, logos etc. itself, you want to license them? And who's gonna pay the lawsuits from the big companies then?

The moment, you upload the skin, you give it free to everyone to use, and should be proud, if people use them. It's one of the coolest way to show that you like something, if you use it.

I just wanted to comment this. Forza 2 has similar skin downloading system that LFS has and Forza offers the user the option to "lock" the skins so the others are not able to edit them. Of course it gets more complicated on a PC but the threat of law suit doesn't seem to be a problem for Forza 2. After all, the system would not "lisence" skin files, it would just make it harder to edit them after being automatically downloaded. LFS uses the skin name, not user name. Basically the skin is "licensed" to that skin name

Bad link: http://videogames.yahoo.com/ga ... amp;page=0&eid=507936

Not having a go but i do find it funny when people get soo worked up because some one has their skin then say it's copyrighted... it's not copyrighted, the actual game is but the skins.. not.

Quote from orange_boy_uk :

Not having a go but i do find it funny when people get soo worked up because some one has their skin then say it's copyrighted... it's not copyrighted, the actual game is but the skins.. not.

Have to agree - Ive been skinning for years - made a fair few - some good - some not so bad - some in LFS some in NAscar...

I dont see the point in getting worked up about it - Take the fact that its a compliment that some one uses your skin..

I did get a lil bit vexed when some one took my Clio V6 skin - and Riced it up by writing v6 power down the side... lol

But all in all - your never gonna stop anyone using your skin - whether it says Copyrighted/do not use/this is mine not yours or not. Its not as if your going to be able to prosecute them for it... cos I would like to see anyone try - Thats one hell of a lot of cash to fork out - for something that would not even make it to a court.

Dont get hung up on it - move on - lifes to short.

Like I said, it's not hard to use an archive file for Skins_x. And it'll reduce the file size if you compress it. Although compressing it will increase load times for skins just by a bit.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

An entire sub-subculture of them, even. "Bears," I think the word is.

Now someone ask why I know that.

I have to ask.....not that there's anything wrong with that

Quote from orange_boy_uk :

Not having a go but i do find it funny when people get soo worked up because some one has their skin then say it's copyrighted... it's not copyrighted, the actual game is but the skins.. not.

Wrong - The designer of any artwork owns the copyright of the artwork, unless he/she sells the copyright, gives away the the copyright, or declares that the artwork can be used freely.

Quote from ev0 :

Wrong - The designer of any artwork owns the copyright of the artwork, unless he/she sells the copyright, gives away the the copyright, or declares that the artwork can be used freely.

I think you are the wrong one. I agree Orange boy, the only way to prevent people to use your skin is to take the patent of your artwork but i suggest you to take the international one , then when people use your skin you can have rights on courts Will you struggle with this?

Quote from hmmmz :

I think you are the wrong one. I agree Orange boy, the only way to prevent people to use your skin is to take the patent of your artwork but i suggest you to take the international one , then when people use your skin you can have rights on courts Will you struggle with this?

Patents and artwork do not exist in same universe. Patent is for certain solution or method - you can't patent just about anything (in certain countries you can patent pretty much everything ), including artwork, logos and "looks".

Basically there are no ways to legally pursue your copyrights over a skin because you have actually taken exactly the same path when you have made your own skins in the first place.

Every individual has the right to make/create or copy any art work and then puclicly show it. You can take a picture of mona lisa or logo of ford, add some nice purple moustach or green dust layer on it, glue it on the hood of your car and all is ok by law.

Skinners use that same principle when they make their own skins. Using decals on the skin that either aren't made by the skinner or used without official permission is not illegal as long as there is no money involved. Also copying others' skins isn't illegal because you are just making a single copy from it for yourself. If you paint a painting and show it to everybody, that everybody can make exactly similar painting and show it to everyone as well or even sell it as long as he doesn't start mass producing those paintings.

That doesn't mean that it is ok to copy others' work. And all the above is all about artowork, it doesn't work that way with software, for example. LFS, howver, could provide some kind of skins_x folder protection and as I see it; it wouldn't be illegal in any ways. But it wouldn't really take away all the problems either. You could just come here on the forum, go to skins section and download all the skins you want and edit them to death. Protecting skins_x would protect only small portion of skins.

Imho.

Quote from ev0 :

Wrong - The designer of any artwork owns the copyright of the artwork, unless he/she sells the copyright, gives away the the copyright, or declares that the artwork can be used freely.

So you or "others" will sue some one for taking their skin from a game? I very doubt you would go for the suing option.