The trouble is there is no punishment for a driver that doesn't move over under a blue flag in LFS. all it needs is a stop go penalty after a certain amount of time. but the blue flag message does pop up way to soon for my liking.
Personally, I always use 'best judgment' when deciding what to do. If I'm at a technical section of track (say... T1-combo on BLGP) and the Flagger is only a short distance behind, I will pull off to the side, so if the Flagger is lapping faster than I am (Likely), I won't cause a delay during a technical section of track.
If, on the other hand, I'm flagged on a straight, I'll simply hold my line so he can go around me safely.
In my opinion, Blue flags call not for 'Move outta the way' or 'Slow down!', but more for 'Use common sense, don't block'. Each situation should be handled differently, depending on the track/cars/location (Would you pull over as soon as you were blue-flagged in Uf1000s?)
I often had to point out to people (During my Ovalite days) that Blue-flag does not mean you have to swing off to the side and drive along the track wall.
If, on the other hand, I'm flagged on a straight, I'll simply hold my line so he can go around me safely.
In my opinion, Blue flags call not for 'Move outta the way' or 'Slow down!', but more for 'Use common sense, don't block'. Each situation should be handled differently, depending on the track/cars/location (Would you pull over as soon as you were blue-flagged in Uf1000s?)
I often had to point out to people (During my Ovalite days) that Blue-flag does not mean you have to swing off to the side and drive along the track wall.
No that's wrong, mainly because it can be shown where the backmarker is running at the same speed as the lapping car but not pulling away and in a car such as the UF1 LFS puts the blue flags out a few minutes in advance. We've just got to live with it really like there is no punishment for taking out a backmarker or for disobeying yellows.
OK ok , but does this rules apply to drivers that got on track in the middle of the race ??
I dont think so. Its good to remember about that
cause some guys may take ur opinions wrongly and ill get blocked by some smartass that just joined up the race when im doing the last lap. "Hey ! i got all the rights to block u i ve read it on the internet , go check it"
illepallDupson
Demo Racer
^^^^^^^^
See, there's your problem...
Demo Racer
^^^^^^^^
See, there's your problem...
I belive that when you got a blue flag you have to let the leaders overtake you, but that doesn't mean that I'll break and let you pass in the straight lane, what I usually do is to drive to the point that the leader is really close to me and then when going in to a corner I take a wider line than the usual one, by doing that I don't even have to break more than usual and I only lose no more than ten hundredth of a second.
It really annoys me when I'm for example in third position and making fast laps to get near the leaders and when I am going to hotlap someone he sticks to the inside of the track going really slow, I loose all my progress for reaching the leaders.
It really annoys me when I'm for example in third position and making fast laps to get near the leaders and when I am going to hotlap someone he sticks to the inside of the track going really slow, I loose all my progress for reaching the leaders.
Yes put a track marshal can only see a little part of the track, so a blue flag should come out later. look at F1 when a blue flag comes out the backmarker as a car very big in his mirrors. thats if he gets one at all.
Why's that a problem? I've had races that are just as good if not better on demo as I have had on S2
It's just a matter of joining a server being admined and has a reputation for attracting good, fast and fair racers Which is also good practise to find good racing on S2 servers...I hate it when you get lapped for what ever reason but your faster than the lapper. and so you catch up with them and then sometimes have ago at you because you passed them even tho you was faster. what do they expect you to do, sit behind them for 10laps or something
Blue flags are there for a purpose, so take note of them and watch your mirrors as its a horrible feeling when the leader laps you and you make a mistake and take him out, GUILT
hehehe
Blue flags are there for a purpose, so take note of them and watch your mirrors as its a horrible feeling when the leader laps you and you make a mistake and take him out, GUILT
heheheI agree with most of the stuff you have written, but not this. This is just BS.
If the faster car tries to pass someone, of course the car with the blue flag should give way. I'm not saying they should stop, but if the faster car tries to pass on the straight or into a corner, the slower car should definately let the leader pass easily.
No point int fighting, you won't lose a position.
Unless, say you are having a battle with someone infront or maybe behind the leader, if you give way to the leader, you're gonna get passed by the straggler who's following the leaders line.
No! That's not always true.
Apparently at least part of the confusion about passing exists because there are four different situations with slightly different 'rules,' at least in my view: 1) when overtaken by leaders (being lapped), 2) when dicing with other cars on the same lap, 3) when you're a late entrant and weren't on the start grid, and 4) when your car has spun off and is re-entering the track.
In case #1, I submit, the overtaken car should be as predictable as possible, and make an effort to allow the leaders to pass safely; the driver is however perfectly at right to maintain a proper racing line, unless significantly slower--and arguably should as part of being predictable. The leaders, in any event, are still responsible for a safe and clean pass. If an accident occurs it is the fault of the overtaking car, of the leaders. I know there will be howls of disagreement to that statement, but the way I read the various rules that's what they say. If someone can show me a published rule that has it the other way around I'll certainly change my view.
In case #2, the blue flag really shouldn't be shown--and probably wouldn't on a real track. The car in front doesn't have to move over at all, is perfectly within his rights to take an inside line, and may make one blocking (but not dangerous) move on the straight. Again, the overtaking car is responsible for ensuring a clean and safe pass. If an accident occurs it is (usually) the fault of the overtaking car.
In case #3, the overtaken car has no 'rights,' and carries a heavy burden to stay the hell out of the way, to drive in a very predictable manner and avoid obstructing the racers in any way, including pulling into the grass if necessary. On a real track, after all, no one would be allowed on the track to just do laps during a race. In any event, the overtaking car still must ensure a safe pass, out of self-preservation if nothing else. If an accident occurs the overtaken car is at fault in my book.
In case #4, while not a blue flag situation, the issue of who has the right of way and who is burdened to ensure there is no obstruction or collision is black and white: the car attempting to retake the track is entirely responsible. Because visibility in our cars is difficult, using the track map will tell you if a car is coming. If a driver pulls onto a track in the path of an oncoming car he is entirely responsible if an accident occurs.
Yes?
Note that in many rule books going "on to the grass" is illegal because you have left the defines of the track. Deliberately leaving the track is usually frowned upon because it is unsafe and unpredictable. Under no circumstances must a blue-flagged driver ever leave the circuit to allow a faster car pass. The driver being overtaken has the same rights as every other driver. Blue flag rules go hand-in hand with overtaking rules, together thay cover most situations.
I broadly agree,
#1: Responsibility to let the lead car past is the backmarkers, responsibility to perform a clean overtake is the leaders.
#2: Not a blue flag, but remember only 1 blocking move is allowed then you may return to your line
#3: This is unique to sim racing of course, and so no real precedent exists except in test/practice sessions where no racing or blue flag occurs (except at pit exit). However I wouldn't say the backmarker has to take to the grass, in many circumstances this can be more dangerous.
#4: The off-track car has no 'rights' until back up to racing speed. An exception to this is the pit exit where the car has no rights until reaching the end of the pit lane exit line where it then has full rights.
#1: Responsibility to let the lead car past is the backmarkers, responsibility to perform a clean overtake is the leaders.
#2: Not a blue flag, but remember only 1 blocking move is allowed then you may return to your line
#3: This is unique to sim racing of course, and so no real precedent exists except in test/practice sessions where no racing or blue flag occurs (except at pit exit). However I wouldn't say the backmarker has to take to the grass, in many circumstances this can be more dangerous.
#4: The off-track car has no 'rights' until back up to racing speed. An exception to this is the pit exit where the car has no rights until reaching the end of the pit lane exit line where it then has full rights.
Blue flag !?
Where I come from, which is Denmark, we read a blue flag like this : Prepare to get overhoaled. Do this when its SAFE !!! And only then. It means, leave raceline, first time possible. There by you give the leader his chanche to get by.
I must admit it pis... me off, when people writes "BLUE FLAG BLUE FLAG ... Get out of my way ****s" They should be banned instantly. Same way goes the guys (and girls) who uses their car horns in a race.
Text communication between racers, should not be possible, during a race, and honking neither. It doesn`t happen in IRL racing.
Where I come from, which is Denmark, we read a blue flag like this : Prepare to get overhoaled. Do this when its SAFE !!! And only then. It means, leave raceline, first time possible. There by you give the leader his chanche to get by.
I must admit it pis... me off, when people writes "BLUE FLAG BLUE FLAG ... Get out of my way ****s" They should be banned instantly. Same way goes the guys (and girls) who uses their car horns in a race.
Text communication between racers, should not be possible, during a race, and honking neither. It doesn`t happen in IRL racing.
In my opinion the real blue flag rules shouldn't be used in all LFS situations.
Like if the leaders are on lap 4/10 and someone joins the race, when the guy who just joined is about to be passed by the leaders he should not compramise the leaders line at all, IE: Make them have to drive on a slower line to get past or whatever.
Then in situations when someone started the race at the same time as the leaders he shouldn't be so obliged to slow down but should stay off the racing line, i've had many encounters when going passed people who have been blue flagged and they just turn in and take us both out.
I think it's just to do with how much respect the guy with the blue flags has for his fellow racers.
Like if the leaders are on lap 4/10 and someone joins the race, when the guy who just joined is about to be passed by the leaders he should not compramise the leaders line at all, IE: Make them have to drive on a slower line to get past or whatever.
Then in situations when someone started the race at the same time as the leaders he shouldn't be so obliged to slow down but should stay off the racing line, i've had many encounters when going passed people who have been blue flagged and they just turn in and take us both out.
I think it's just to do with how much respect the guy with the blue flags has for his fellow racers.
Grrrrr !
People joining a race, have to learn - NOT TO INTERACT WITH THE ONGOING RACE - To many just pit out in front of the leaders and causes many problems. I pitty a racer which is capable of doing that. I don`t think you can explain him why he have to be carefull - He is born dumb !!
All you people who have referenced rulebooks from the FIA and NASCAR and NASA and the International United Nations Federation for Blue Flag Etiquette are overlooking the one point that makes all the preceding arguments moot.
That being, the FIA, NASCAR, NASA, SCCA and any other sanctioning body you feel the need to mention will not let dudes who have never been on a race track before go out and race in a real live race. LFS's blue flag policy should be the same as mine. That is, if you have a blue flag and you have less than one month with the game, you need to stop, get into the grass and wait until the next race starts where after the first turn you wont have a chance of ruining any one's race that may have a shot at winning.
Here's the primary reason why. I cannot tell you how many times I've approached some dude who just left the pits. I mean, I'm not on his ass yet, but I'm close enough so he gets a Blue Flag just in time for the next set of turns. He sees the BF and immediately panics, hitting a wall, which rockets him back out onto the track right in front of yours truly. BAM! My race is done. Thanks for the memories. And you know, it's not even the dudes who've only had the game for 2 days. This same shit happens with guys who've raced regularly for weeks. Guys I've even helped out with sets or pointers in spec mode. They get all nervous, run out of talent and use my car as an anvil. Every time I get within 300 meters of someone who is orange on my mini-map, I cringe and hope that the (what seems like) inevitable spin he does isn't directly in my path, leaving me no room to avoid it. And you know, Even if he somehow manages to keep it together for me to make a pass on the straight, that's no guarantee he wont forget his freakin' break point and try to ram his headlights up my tail pipe in the process. Believe me, it's happened before.
It's mildly irritating when it happens with someone who's on the same lap and your trying a legitimate pass on, but for it to happen from someone who's three laps down is infuriating.
I guess I get so worked up over shit like this because I try so damned hard to make sure I don't ruin anyone elses fun only to get shafted in the end from people who either don't think, don't know or just don't care.
What we need is a script that will only let racers join if they have X number of total laps under their belt. Or X number of credits..or something...anything. Imagine, a dedicated LFS veterans only server that doesn't have to be PW protected. We can dream can't we?
That being, the FIA, NASCAR, NASA, SCCA and any other sanctioning body you feel the need to mention will not let dudes who have never been on a race track before go out and race in a real live race. LFS's blue flag policy should be the same as mine. That is, if you have a blue flag and you have less than one month with the game, you need to stop, get into the grass and wait until the next race starts where after the first turn you wont have a chance of ruining any one's race that may have a shot at winning.
Here's the primary reason why. I cannot tell you how many times I've approached some dude who just left the pits. I mean, I'm not on his ass yet, but I'm close enough so he gets a Blue Flag just in time for the next set of turns. He sees the BF and immediately panics, hitting a wall, which rockets him back out onto the track right in front of yours truly. BAM! My race is done. Thanks for the memories. And you know, it's not even the dudes who've only had the game for 2 days. This same shit happens with guys who've raced regularly for weeks. Guys I've even helped out with sets or pointers in spec mode. They get all nervous, run out of talent and use my car as an anvil. Every time I get within 300 meters of someone who is orange on my mini-map, I cringe and hope that the (what seems like) inevitable spin he does isn't directly in my path, leaving me no room to avoid it. And you know, Even if he somehow manages to keep it together for me to make a pass on the straight, that's no guarantee he wont forget his freakin' break point and try to ram his headlights up my tail pipe in the process. Believe me, it's happened before.
It's mildly irritating when it happens with someone who's on the same lap and your trying a legitimate pass on, but for it to happen from someone who's three laps down is infuriating.
I guess I get so worked up over shit like this because I try so damned hard to make sure I don't ruin anyone elses fun only to get shafted in the end from people who either don't think, don't know or just don't care.
What we need is a script that will only let racers join if they have X number of total laps under their belt. Or X number of credits..or something...anything. Imagine, a dedicated LFS veterans only server that doesn't have to be PW protected. We can dream can't we?
Wow you take the game too seriously
I understand where you're coming from. You really try to be a clean racer and then some schmo comes in and causes problems. But that is the nature of public servers, you run into those types of "obstacles". I actually enjoy passing them (or surviving them), its part of the fun. You just have to expect a little of that on public servers. I don't think its that rampant.
I understand where you're coming from. You really try to be a clean racer and then some schmo comes in and causes problems. But that is the nature of public servers, you run into those types of "obstacles". I actually enjoy passing them (or surviving them), its part of the fun. You just have to expect a little of that on public servers. I don't think its that rampant.
(Tailspin)
DELETED
by Tailspin
There comes a limit though, in real racing anything that forces a following car to make an abrupt change of course will be considered dangerous and is a sure way to get you a serious bollocking IRL.
Too many people throw their cars off the road as soon as they see a blue flag, and personally I hate the people that spam the chat saying 'BLUE FLAG MOVE OVER!!!!'
The reason I play LFS is because I enjoy the art of overtaking and racing wheel to wheel with other people, being out infront lapping on my own does not interest me in the slightest so I quite like it when a backmarker doesn't jump off the road when they see me coming to lap them.
But if you end up side by side with a leader heading into a potentially dodgy area you can just lift off the throttle a bit to make sure its safe, too many people keep their foot in it and that could cause an accident if the lead car is like me and uses the bumper cam with rear mirror (huge blind spots)
The reason I play LFS is because I enjoy the art of overtaking and racing wheel to wheel with other people, being out infront lapping on my own does not interest me in the slightest so I quite like it when a backmarker doesn't jump off the road when they see me coming to lap them.
But if you end up side by side with a leader heading into a potentially dodgy area you can just lift off the throttle a bit to make sure its safe, too many people keep their foot in it and that could cause an accident if the lead car is like me and uses the bumper cam with rear mirror (huge blind spots)
Yup, if for some reason I find myself getting lapped and the person lapping starts that then I just make it harder for them to lap me in the hope they slip up. Then I'll attempt to explain to them why I stretched the actual blue flag rule. It's surprising how many of them chuck it off the road by getting sucked into braking too late
I hate it when your racing people and you start hitting back markers and they start spamming `BLUE FLAG MOVE OVER` etc. Countless times the people that do this just take no consideration for the back marker and plough into them :/ Then they have a go at the back marker for getting in there way... Me personally I think if you run into the back of someone it's 100% your fault unless you get brake tested etc, it's far easier to avoid a car in front than it's for a car to avoid someone from behind.
Based on this and the other discussions here, anyone want to draft up the LFS RULES OF RACE CONDUCT GUIDE ?
We can then vote on it point by point and once we get a general consensus it can be adopted as ver.1, hosts who are in accordance with the guide can then tag their server name something like: RRC-<hostname>
edit
I'm thinking someone like Becky (cause you need MORE to do :P) or one of the other major leagues who could just modify their existing rule set
We can then vote on it point by point and once we get a general consensus it can be adopted as ver.1, hosts who are in accordance with the guide can then tag their server name something like: RRC-<hostname>
edit
I'm thinking someone like Becky (cause you need MORE to do :P) or one of the other major leagues who could just modify their existing rule set
Hear-hear!!!!
Wide misunderstanding of blue flag
(81 posts, started )
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