Quote from U4IK ST8 :

Just browsed the official FIA site in the FAQ section and found this.LINK So Gunn, I don't know what rules you read but this looks like the flagged driver should pull over to let the faster driver past.


I always, when I am about to be lapped, pull off the racing line or take the wide line on a corner. I don't see the point in holding up a faster driver.

F1 uses non-standard rules, I think my and Alan Dove's interpretation's are more the ones used for closed wheel racing. And that is for OBSTRUCTION, not failing to stomp on the brakes.

I was about to say about the same thing as the previous poster (keiran). The name of the penalty clearly states what should happen. "Penalty for obstruction". So when you start blocking the lapper, you're wrong, nothing is saying you should brake or leave your race line. A good racer that deserves to lap someone has the skill to pass the lapee while on a racing line.

Hehe: I searched for blue flag regulations on google and it gave me a complete serie of how to hang the American flag in specific cases.

Quote from keiran :

That is not what is says. You are interpetating it all wrong.

"The blue flag during the race tells a driver he is about to be lapped and to let the other car overtake, on pain of a time penalty for obstruction"

What this is stating that a waved blue flag is telling the driver he is about to be lapped. He must let the other car overtake. It doesn#t say give up the racing line, all it says you must let him overtake so in other words don't defend the position.

I'm not interpreting it wrong. The driver who is flagged should let the lapping driver overtake, yes? They must let him by or recieve a time penalty.

I just said that that's what I do, pull off the racing line or take the wide line on a corner.

Quote from U4IK ST8 :

I'm not interpreting it wrong. The driver who is flagged should let the lapping driver overtake, yes? They must let him by or recieve a time penalty.

I just said that that's what I do, pull off the racing line or take the wide line on a corner.

If you stay on the racing line, and the lapper passes you on whatever side. Then you still let them by, no? It's obstruction when you DON'T stay on the racing line, and try to block him from overtaking you.

This is a difficult case, the only solution is to contact FIA and ask I guess, might do that, to finish this discussion off for now and ever

The problem is not a rules interpretation - at least for most decent people
playing the game ( fast or slow, it doesn't matter, a lot of people do follow
the correct methods for dealing with blue flags).

The big problem comes with people doing mid race joins - jumping in on lap
4 of 6, directly in front of the lead pack, then refusing to move, or trying
desperatly to race with the leader, to prove something.

There is no valid excuse for this - people often say they want to practice for the next race. Chances are if they aren't alert enough to check the map and consider what they are doing in leaving the pits, they aren't going to be very alert on the track, and will usually end up taking people out.

There is no valid excuse for this, and it's usually what gets people so
angry. Imagine any form of real life racing in which the weakest team
enters it's car into the race at lap 30 of 60, directly in front of the lead pack, and refuses to obey a blue flag because they 'need to get ready
for the next race'.

Quote from SabersKunk :

In F1 you must let the car pass within '3 blue flags' or risk being penalised by the race official.

You don't have to "let" them pass, you have to not keep them from passing. Hold your line is all it means. If the race officials see you are holding your line, and not blocking the faster car they will not penalize you, it's the other driver's fault for not taking that opportunity to pass you that you have given them.

Quote from duke_toaster :

O... go for some unscheduled rallycross...

Hehe

All the blue flag says is that you must let the faster car coming up behind you pass. It does not say that jump out of the way immediately, slow down, or sacrifice your own lap. Simply put, just let the guy behind pass without too much hassle.

I don't appreciate the people who start yelling at someone just because they didn't jump off the track for the person coming up behind. Usually though I see blue flags handled quite nicely on public servers.

Please don't use F1 rules when discussing LFS blue flag rules. Okay, we have a Sauber, but all the other cars would use national rules - e.g. MSA competition rules.

And they do not tell you to get off the racing line.

And if someone 'Blue Flag - Let me pass's me, then I am going to make sure life (and lapping me) becomes a whole lot harder.

Like a broken record...

If I see a blue flag, and the person behind me is on the same lap I'm going to make it as hard as possible for them to get past me. If I'm being lapped, I'll hold my line and the responsibility to pull off a safe pass in on them.

If I jumped in on a race half way through I'll put my car into a wall (if that's what it takes) to avoid disturbing the competition.

ego trips anyone?

seriously, when i read these threads about blue flags, all i can think to myself is that all the nit-picking about interpretation of the rules is just a cover up for the real issue, which is with the inflated egos of both the lappers and lappees.

to me, it's really simple:

if you joined mid-race and get a blue flag, make 100% sure you don't spoil the race. if you have the car handling skills to let the faster car lap you safely, then do so. if you don't, then shift-s. no excuses. if you didn't start the race, you have no rights whatsoever.

if you started the race and are being legitimately lapped, then stick to your race, but let the faster car pass at the earliest safe place, which may be 2 or 3 corners down the track, depending on how fast you are. if you know how to drive, it should be obvious what a safe place to pass is, so no need to split hairs about it.

is it annoying when people spam the screen with "blue flag - let me pass!"? maybe. childish? maybe. egotistical? maybe. but remember, not everyone reads the forum, and there really are ignorant people who don't know or care about blue flags, so what may be an insult to your intelligence may be appropriate for some of the idiots on the public servers, and whether you get offended by it or not is really up to you.

which brings me to my final point... people who say that they will deliberately block someone who spams them with a blue flag message are the most egotistical and selfish of all! spite has no place in a gentleman's sport. if you are being lapped, you are being lapped, and there is no excuse for treating one faster car different than another. that's the definition of poor sportsmanship.

Quote from Mykl :

Like a broken record...

If I see a blue flag, and the person behind me is on the same lap I'm going to make it as hard as possible for them to get past me. .

you don't get a blue flag if the person behind you is on the same lap!!!!!!

see my post here: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=10424&page=3

Quote from tristancliffe :

Please don't use F1 rules when discussing LFS blue flag rules. Okay, we have a Sauber, but all the other cars would use national rules - e.g. MSA competition rules.

If someone could post what the Blue Book has to say post it - why the hell can't they make it avaliable as a PDF on the site like the FIA and everyone else

I agree with Tristan here... it's pretty frustrating (especially for those of us who aren't European) when FIA rules are held up as the end-all-be-all. There are many equally valid rules you could go by, and none of them (not even the FIA rules, as has been pointed out) require you to jump out of line to let the leaders by.

Quote :

Het is nooit de bedoeling dat een tragere auto van zijn lijn afwijkt noch op zijn rem gaat staan. De snellere auto moet het manoeuver doen. Maar een trager racewagen mag ook niet echt hinderen. Op een recht stuk is dat geen probleem. De tragere auto blijft de lijn behouden en de snellere auto heeft ruimte zat.
In een bocht echter kan de tragere piloot een autobreedte van de binnenlijn wijken om zodoende de andere auto probleemloos voorbij te laten. Zo verliezen de twee auto's weinig tijd en verloopt het sportief.

This is a Dutch quote from a race driver, I asked him how it is done in the Belcar races and most other races. Here is the translation:

Quote :

It's never meant to be that the slower car yields from his line or brakes. The faster car has to do the manouvre. But a slower racecar also isn't allowed to obstruct. On a straight away there isn't any problem. The slower car keeps his line and the faster car has all the room it needs.
In a turn, the slower pilot can yield the wide of a car, so the other car can pass without any problem. That way both cars don't lose much time and it's fair.

Quote from MAGGOT :

You don't have to "let" them pass, you have to not keep them from passing. Hold your line is all it means. If the race officials see you are holding your line, and not blocking the faster car they will not penalize you, it's the other driver's fault for not taking that opportunity to pass you that you have given them.

Not always the case. Imagine a leader catching a lapped car who is only 1 or 2 seconds per lap slower. If the lapped car just kept driving it could be very very hard for the leader to safely pass him, even worse somewhere like Monaco, but he would be held up significantly. The officials wouldn't hesitate to penalise the lapped car, and rightly so. Nobody is interested in lapped traffic, and it's only the arrogant self-important drivers (in all forms of racing) that do anything but make every possible effort to have as little impact on the actual race as is humanly possible.

Quote from U4IK ST8 :

I'm not interpreting it wrong. The driver who is flagged should let the lapping driver overtake, yes? They must let him by or recieve a time penalty.

I just said that that's what I do, pull off the racing line or take the wide line on a corner.

Quote from U4IK ST8 :

Just browsed the official FIA site in the FAQ section and found this.LINK So Gunn, I don't know what rules you read but this looks like the flagged driver should pull over to let the faster driver past.

All the driver being lapped has to do is not obstruct the lapping driver from passing. If he starts defending the position then he will be penalised.

The problem with Formula One and this rule is overtaking is difficult. So this rule is very strictly enforced, so unfortunately back markers are now too scared to get penalised and jump out of the way of faster cars. The reason drivers make such a fuss is obviously because any time lost could mean they fall behind another driver they are racing in pit stops.

Too many people believe blue flags means jump out the way and it's annoying to say the least. Especially when it starts making newbies think that is actually what it means so anytime they are blue flagged they fly off the road

It's the same rule as in the MSA handbook.

Quote from evilgeek :

you don't get a blue flag if the person behind you is on the same lap!!!!!!

Quote :

Mykl
Demo Racer

Typical mistake of many newcomer's and generally slower drivers: They thoroughly try to stay away from the ideal line, often crossing it many times...

So here 3 easy-to-understand, easy-to-follow guidelines:

1. When you get a blue-flag message, stay calm... It's not the end of the world... Check your mirrors to determine how fast the lapper is approaching, but keep on going normally...
Once the lapper is close enough,
2. choose a side(/line) and STAY there, it doesn't matter where you are (straight or corner)... On two connected corners, that can also mean the lapper has to pass you on the outside of the second corner: Do NOT swerve to avoid the ideal line! Being the faster driver, the lapper WILL find a way to pass you, even on the outside...
3. To shorten the passing maneuvre and to make it easier to pass you, ease up the throttle a bit (don't forget to check for drafters!) and continue to go on normally once the lapper is past you...

Those three rules should cover pretty much any blue flag-situation you can come across... If the lapper still hits you although you followed this guidelines, HE is the one to blame, as he was unable to pass safely (which is HIS responsibility, not yours)...

and another thing we have turn signals, use them to let others know what you are intending to do...if your gonna stay left then put your left blinker on

Quote from KSheppard :

and another thing we have turn signals, use them to let others know what you are intending to do...if your gonna stay left then put your left blinker on

I totally agree, but some people seem to think that flashing left means pass on the left. However, on road cars (where indicators come from), indicating left means YOU are moving left, and thus the quoted technique is best.

Quote from sinbad :

it's only the arrogant self-important drivers (in all forms of racing) that do anything but make every possible effort to have as little impact on the actual race as is humanly possible.

This isn't really true.

For series where caution periods/safety cars aren't common, I agree 100%, but when you come to leagues like NASCAR, CCWS, IRL, etc (the vast majority of western hemisphere series, really), it's perfectly acceptable and expected to fight as hard as you can to stay on the lead lap. The reason, of course, being that in the event of a caution period you can catch up to the back of the lead lap pack, adjust the car, and improve your position--even possibly win. You still shouldn't do anything stupid to block or otherwise harm the lapping car, but you certainly aren't expected to make it easy for them either.

Obviously this doesn't apply to LFS at the moment as it lacks full course cautions, and so the F1-style passiveness toward being lapped is the preferred and proper form of blue flag behavior. But it's disingenuous to say that it should be that way across all motorsport.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I totally agree, but some people seem to think that flashing left means pass on the left. However, on road cars (where indicators come from), indicating left means YOU are moving left, and thus the quoted technique is best.

This is what i'd like to see, and use myself. But it's hard because you have to have 3 buttons to use the indicators (left, right, off - 4 if you count hazards). It would be better if you could press a button for left indicator, then press the same button again to turn it off.
For those of us that can type easily while racing, as it is it's not a problem, but for guys like me (By the time i've looked at the keyboard i'm in the gravel) it's too hard as it is, i'd like to bind the indicators to my wheel, i could just manage 2 buttons for this, but not 3.

I have L and R 2 set on my dfp as indicators, triangle to stop the indicators and R3 is the four blinkers.