Now this probably isn't the case for all WR setups, certainly a lot of them.
They are often built to be 'on the edge' of what's possible. They are very easy to damage, twitchy, highly unstable, offer a lot of oversteer and only built for 1-2 laps (even though they can easily do 10+).
Therefore, including them as a base setup, for newbies, would be frustrating as they would most likely crash more than anything else. (I crash with my WR setup)
Team setups? Designed for endurance? Yes, all the way. Often these sets are slightly slower but will offer more control, be more forgiving and allow you to do 50+ laps.
My opinion: Gathering 50-100 setups on this forum thread isn't feasible. It would be better to ask a team for their setups, and then they would be the sponsor of the setup pack.
The merge, because so manny different tracks are involved, appears to take much of the "edge" out the sets. The ones I produced from the inferno sets feel very stable.
I did include bobs sets so they might have helped tone down the edgy sets.
I would love to include your team endurance sets if possible. Please post them in the related thread if possible.
Hi, If you look back up a few posts there are the V0.1 beta sets. They don't have a big enough sample for me yet to iorn out the slight subtle kinks.
Also I have used Clutch pack for all sets now pre-load is in place which makes many of the sets feel natural now.
definately an intersting idea, like rc10racer says, with current w patch phase, and x not to far away, sets will be invalid or just not right/optimal.
Im currently putting together a collection of race and qual sets for FXO and XRT majority are my own and from team members, and some others from respected racers/peers.
Will the base setup project have archived areas for different eras of LFS ? ie U V W etc
Its a pure proof of concept at the moment. Once things are known to produce workable sets and people are interested in the sets it might go that way.
But keep the sets coming.
I have noticed that the currents base sets work better in W over W9/10 as the preload changes car character. That said the overall feel of the suspension is good. Nice travel and feel of weight behind them.
While I commend your efforts and I am not suggesting that you stop what you are doing, I have some reservations about this project. These may not be 'game breakers', but they may lead to unexpected results.
1. The relationship between car behaviour/performance and its setup is a multi-dimensional nonlinear function. There is no mathematical reason to expect that the 'average' setup will result in 'average' behaviour. i.e., combining an understeering set with an oversteering set will not necessarily result in a set with less pronounced understeer & oversteer.
2. How do you 'average' different differential types? i.e., if set A has an open diff and set B has a clutch-pack diff, what is the average of these two sets?
The first point is what I see as the biggest problem. Like I said, it may not be a problem at all, but if things don't turn out like you expect, then it could be the cause.
As you're using W sets in W10, I would advise going through them and setting the preload to 0 because that's the way they were designed. Obviously as people starting using W10 (and later patches) more, sets will get updated to take advantage of preload.
clutch pack/open is rather easy actually as an open diff is a clutch pack with 0 ramp and 0 preload (same logic applies to locked ones) ... things get dicy with vicous diffs
Yes you are right on point one and there are many subtle things that effect car handling. That said if I can get enough of a sample set I think they might produce some good results. Early indications for cars with setups for many of the tracks have shown this. Take a look at the lower speed cars like the TBO range and the LX cars, the GTT set has come out very nice so far. It is not perfect but very stable and solid on the road.
The OW and GTR cars are the least perfect but I expected that this early on. The added complexity of downforce and its effect on suspension means I need a far bigger sample than I currently had before I can see if they will work. That saidd the FXR set is feeling very nice to drive.
The second one is far easier. There are a number of things such as Diff types, tyre selection, steering range that I set from selections on a form. I only perform the average on settings that have a "value" instead of a "choice". For the samples produced to date I have used clutch pack (locked always sounded wrong ) where possible and if not viscous (Central).
At the moment this is a proof of concept to see what happens. So I will not be gutted if it does not work. Either way it will be interesting to see what it produces.
I would love to get the top 30HL setups for each track and car combo. If I could get that I feel it would give a good enough sample to prove oncee and for all if the project will fly
What I do is only pull diff related settings, such as power/coast lock etc, from cars with the correct diff type in that location. That means I know the values are not polluted with possible garbage in the cars that don't have the correct type of diff.
I like to keep the locked and open diffs from effecting the clutch pack using the technique you describe because the locked diff is of far more use in LFS than it should be. It would skew the settings.
The full source for all this is in the Programmers section. I have a more up to date version here that I will post if people want the update. Just request in the programmer section.
I set the preload to 0 in the file but when they are used in W10 0 means use the default for the car so they get the value set.
The new preload, for me anyway, has had a huge impact on the cars. They feel much more natural on the road. I can see clutch pack becoming far more popular now
Each ones goood for as long as it says in the name, or about 20-35 laps, and they're all good for quick laps (although the FE1 one may not be that great)
I really like this idea.
The setups I have found or tried to edit or create my own, are all really bad. The WR sets are setup for 1 laptop which is very very hard to control / unstable for your average racer.
Trouble is setups are so track specific that at best all you'll end up with are a few sets that aren't particularly fast and feel different from track to track.
In addition tracks require completely different downforce settings from one another so a FOX set fast at Aston National will be slow at KY GP Long. And you can't just change downforce settings in isolation because spring rates, ARB and damper rates are dependant on the level of downforce. Change any of these settings and you'll need different camber settings too.
The whole point of setups is that they ARE track specific.
The best cars so far have been the S1 cars. That said I was on a server last night pimping my sets for people to test. Tested on City Long one of the city sprint circuits and also KY National. One person put down a PB with the lastest XXR generic and the FXR was within 1 sec of the fastest laps put down. The FXR is a real tyre shredder though but has stunning turn in with little or no understeer.
I personally use the sets sets now over anything else, they just feel solid on the road like Bobs road sets yet have a fair lick of speed. Also means I know what the car will do in every situation without learning loads of sets so I am faster in pickups.
No they wont work well as well as track specific and at extremes, KY Oval, they will be dire. Some tracks have very specific requirements but so far I am far more pleased with the sets than I thought I would be.
I could see people using them as a solid base to make track specifics from. But for noobs they will be a god send compared to the defaults.
I will be posting the next zip of setups tonight after I build including the latest sets I have been sent by people. I would be interested if people could test them and give feebback compared to their current track specific setups for a selection of tracks.
Thanks for the update, will test tonight, and let you know. But the few test before are all very stable, long distance, and quick for me.
Again like people say for experienced people they may not be good, and have an idea about car setup and what to do to correct any issues but few like myself are unsure!!
Hmm. I just took at look at the FO8 set you compiled and I have to say, I fail to see where my sets made any impact at all. Perhaps the biggest problem with your set is the tire pressures are so low that on some tracks, the tires will be massively overheated in just 2 laps. The massively understeer-biased aero split will also expediate the process.
Yep, The OW sets are the weakest with the Fo8 and BF1 being the worst. Much to be expected I guess as that sort of car has far more subtle effects from aero than others. I might drop them if they dont come right over time.
Things like tyre pressures just reflect the trends people use for their sets, so I guess low pressure must be v common in the sets out there. I wonder if the inferno sets are the issue as many of the sets appear to be made to be fast above other things.
One set alone will only make a very slight impact on the setup overall as I have at least 20+ sets for each car. I will keep an eye on the OW and decide what to do with them. TBH I never drive the OW out of choice as I prefer the feel of a tinny.
