OK, here is my idea. A second exhaust simulation should be generated alongside the present one. The first exhaust simulation should cover the low frequency sounds, and the second one with different settings, should produce higher frequency sounds. This way the sound will have two layers.

I have attached a mix compromising of two different sound settings to produce the multilayered sound I'm looking for.

P.S. Ignore the reverb like sound in the recordings, it's where I haven't quite matched up the two recordings exactly in the mix.

That isn't too bad.
Obviously it's the wrong way to generate them, but it's nice to know that there indeed seems to be an issue about low frequencies.
The first step to an improvement in the simulation is the step from "There is something wrong" to "That's what's wrong".

Vain

I think the relative volume of the sound change too little with load on the engine as well... It should change with revs of course, but also more with load and also the character of the noise should change. Your mix sounds a good step in the right direction. With even more dynamics it should be awesome.

Hi Dave..

Quote from DaveWS :

I agree that the echo is far too great around trees, however under bridges etc it gives a good sense of environment.

Now we're talking the same language

As mentioned, running alongside the cliff walls at Fern Bay for example sounds fine.. but not amongst trees. If the trees part can be fixed it'll make it a whole load better



Regards,

Ian

Quote from DaveWS :

LX4 dual layer.zip

I like the LX4 sound a lot!
That's the kind of sound I expect for the FZR.
Would be nice if you could post the .eng file

There is some kind of high pitched loop in the LX6 sound that doesn't please me though

Quote :

Originally Posted by DaveWS
LX4 dual layer.zip

Quote :

I like the LX4 sound a lot!

Yep.

Seems like this is the problem- at the moment everything's in a kind of muddy mid-range, without real highs and lows, which makes the sound come across as compressed and muffled...

Quote :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q8ZNkhxT04

Listening to this made me realise that the LFS engines could do with a few more handfuls of pebbles in the blender, so to speak . The transition between gears in LFS is also quite simple/uneventful and lacks that spasming, temporarily out of control/between states jumpiness, which makes the sound that much more exciting.

Quote from DaveWS :

OK, here is my idea. A second exhaust simulation should be generated alongside the present one. The first exhaust simulation should cover the low frequency sounds, and the second one with different settings, should produce higher frequency sounds. This way the sound will have two layers.

I have attached a mix compromising of two different sound settings to produce the multilayered sound I'm looking for.

P.S. Ignore the reverb like sound in the recordings, it's where I haven't quite matched up the two recordings exactly in the mix.

That sounds better, it now covers the low frequency noise, but I think it still lacks high frequency noise (by a third layer or just shifting the original layer higher up the frequency band)... If it had those as well, it would be perfect...

Quote from Vain :

2. Many high end vehicles sound very much like a trumpet. Click here for a real vehicle (...with wrong description...) and here for an LFS car.

I thought about it for a while. Is it possible that this sound effect may be cause by changing diameters of the exhaust pipe?
I originally compared the sound to a trumpet, and what makes a trumpet special is that it's diameter changes. This is also very possible for real exhaust systems. Even if you try to avoid it, the different parts of the exhaust system need different diameters. This could cause the same effect and thus contribute to that sound.

I wonder wether the mathematical solution of such a differential wave-equotation is simple enough to be used as an element in the LFS sound simulation.

Vain

Quote from DaveWS :

Yeah. Possibly another simulation. Currently we have an exhaust simulation only. It would be good if another metallic (property) type object could be simulated which would vibrate based on the engine strokes, and resonate loudly at certain frequencies based on its mass to produce more "layers" to the sound. Just an idea.

thats something a lot further down the line though whereas my suggestion can be done as a relatively quick hack job
going along the same trail of though you went what would help a lot is physical modeling of the pipes ... if im not mistaken currently the simulation is basically jsut a bunch of low passes stacked on top of each other ... if you were to add some delay between those with the possibility for waves to travel both ways things should change dramatically for the better

one thing which i think is way off is that the transmission whine doesnt change at all with the gear settings and final drive

Quote from Lotesdelere :

Do you still have patch U installed ? Compare patch U and patch V/W BF1 sounds and tell me which one sounds more like a F1.

Do you mean Patch U sounded better? I don't understand who so many people still prefer the old sounds... I mean in general not only BF1. Maybe Patch V was bad because it was so muffled but that was before DaveWS's sounds got included officially.

I hope one thing gets sorted out maybe in patch Y, it's not really a sound improvement but directly related to that... I'm talking about the goddamn autoblip option aka flat shifting. It really ruins engine note makes it sound totally ridiculous during shifts. So horrible that I can't anymore play with autoblip off, even that even it gives slight advance but I rather loose that 0.0xx secs than kill my ears.

Quote from Dj-Aeri :

I really need backfiring sound

CSR is still useful for that if you want to have it just for kicks..

Quote from deggis :

Do you mean Patch U sounded better? I don't understand who so many people still prefer the old sounds... I mean in general not only BF1. Maybe Patch V was bad because it was so muffled but that was before DaveWS's sounds got included officially.

The only reason why I kep using the U30 as long as I did was the simple reason that I had got used to the bad old sounds. With the new bad sounds my ears were bleeding all the time and I couldn't concentrate on driving. It was so damn messy! With the old sound my ears had got used to them and only ever I had problems with the sounds was when I was watching a replay or onboard movie etc. but with the (then) new sounds there wasn't even any reason why bother. Now that I can edit the sounds it is slightly better than the old (<U31) ones but I still have no idea if the distortion/clipping is bad for my sound systems etc..

The sound editor is good (and very useful atm, would make very hard to listen LFS without it) but I fail to see the logic what goes to let us tweak the sounds so deeply. Agreed, the V (and later) sounds should have been a lot better but imho just the volume sliders for different sounds would have been enough.

I have pretty much given all hope that the sounds are going to be updated in S2 anymore, although my I will still be disappointed if there won't be any updates

I'd use CSR more if it was possible to make it automatically load when I double click LFS...

Quote from Hyperactive :

The only reason why I kep using the U30 as long as I did was the simple reason that I had got used to the bad old sounds. With the new bad sounds my ears were bleeding all the time and I couldn't concentrate on driving. It was so damn messy! With the old sound my ears had got used to them and only ever I had problems with the sounds was when I was watching a replay or onboard movie etc. but with the (then) new sounds there wasn't even any reason why bother. Now that I can edit the sounds it is slightly better than the old (<U31) ones but I still have no idea if the distortion/clipping is bad for my sound systems etc..

The sound editor is good (and very useful atm, would make very hard to listen LFS without it) but I fail to see the logic what goes to let us tweak the sounds so deeply. Agreed, the V (and later) sounds should have been a lot better but imho just the volume sliders for different sounds would have been enough.

I have pretty much given all hope that the sounds are going to be updated in S2 anymore, although my I will still be disappointed if there won't be any updates

I'd use CSR more if it was possible to make it automatically load when I double click LFS...

Blimey, we need to get you on some antidepressants...

I love the new sounds Kudos to Dave. Haven't played LFS for over a year since I've moved out from home and my DFP is left back there, but when I heard the new patch with new sounds was out I just had to try it, and I love them. The new sounds for the GTRs really make me feel like I'm driving a charged monster ready to explode and not to mention the LX4/6 and FZ5. I've always felt that the sound department is where LFS was lacking the most. Physics are superb.

Just a quick question though. I see some people mentioning exhaust volume. Is this a default setting in options which I'm just too blind to see, or is it a mod? I would love to increase the volume a little bit. Right now I've got echo a bit down and car sound maxed.

Quote from [Viking] :

I love the new sounds Kudos to Dave. Haven't played LFS for over a year since I've moved out from home and my DFP is left back there, but when I heard the new patch with new sounds was out I just had to try it, and I love them. The new sounds for the GTRs really make me feel like I'm driving a charged monster ready to explode and not to mention the LX4/6 and FZ5. I've always felt that the sound department is where LFS was lacking the most. Physics are superb.

Just a quick question though. I see some people mentioning exhaust volume. Is this a default setting in options which I'm just too blind to see, or is it a mod? I would love to increase the volume a little bit. Right now I've got echo a bit down and car sound maxed.

Simply press Shift+A to see the editing menu.

Quote from deggis :

Do you mean Patch U sounded better? I don't understand who so many people still prefer the old sounds... I mean in general not only BF1.

I still prefer the FZR and BF1 sounds from U-U30 and overall I prefer how the general ambiance / environment sounds in U-U30 than it does in V-W+.
Example: when I'm in pits at Westhill, with U-U30 I can hear the sounds of the cars coming on the back straight but I don't hear these sounds at all with V-W.
I can hardly hear some of my own sounds (horn, skid) and I don't hear them at all from other cars.

Quote from Hyperactive :

With the new bad sounds my ears were bleeding all the time

Indeed, same here.
Lack of body / low frequencies, everything seems so compressed / muffled.

Quote from Hyperactive :

The sound editor is good...but imho just the volume sliders for different sounds would have been enough.

I second that, let us make the sound balance we want.

Quote from DaveWS :

LX4 dual layer.zip

Please, can you post the .eng file of this LX4 sound ?

Couple more suggestions..

Horn that after a time runs down in pitch if you press the horn key down for too long (would probably annoy the **** out of people though). Quite a frivolous suggestion really, but novel!...

Also, the low fuel warning tone for the FOX (don't know about other cars) stays on even when you've turned the car off. This is a bug as I see it.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I have pretty much given all hope that the sounds are going to be updated in S2 anymore, although my I will still be disappointed if there won't be any updates

I would have said so few months ago, before patch V. But now that the sounds already got a lot better it's maybe easier for Scawen to make little improvements than to start from zero... or not.

Actually interesting how much popularity of CSR might have affected that Scawen started working on the sounds in the first place. And wasn't it that certain monkey (Kid) who leaked the command to the sound editor? Without that we'd be still stuck with the patch V sounds that imho wasn't a huge improvement, luckily we had DaveWS who put the potential of the sound editor to work.

But I really don't understand your view that the current sounds would be just "slightly better" than before. Most of the cars sounds now at least remotely like cars and few of them sounds very good, but definately not bees like before. Sounds have given some character to the cars. Best thing since April patch and you shouldn't hear anymore "I can't that play that game because of the sounds" coming from people's mouth that have used to sampled sounds.

Quote :

I'd use CSR more if it was possible to make it automatically load when I double click LFS...

You can use .bat file to open both programs at the same click.

bit off topic of ideas etc for other people, but if you can make a XRT sound like a V8 nascar id be over the moon

doubt its possible tho, xrt hasnt got the right engine to even sound like a stock car in anyway

watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDfNZYNb66s&NR=1
i noticed the wind noise changes when the car start to slide (is the guy driving with open windows?). maybe this can be put into LFS too?

Quote from DaveWS :

The problem is this, due to copyright issues, the only way to extract a usable gear whine from within the law is to record the whine from an in-car video.

Perhaps there are some folks in the GPL community willing to help? IIRC there was a sound expert involved in making the '65 and '69 mods.

Quote from Jimmy_Lemon :

bit off topic of ideas etc for other people, but if you can make a XRT sound like a V8 nascar id be over the moon

doubt its possible tho, xrt hasnt got the right engine to even sound like a stock car in anyway

@icyocean: Nice vid . I am fairly certain his windows are open. Whether or not windows will be able to be opened in LFS I don't know.

heh thats awsome. thanks.

but shame you had to use a 4 letre flat 8 tho :S, stock cars are 5.7-5.8 letre V8's with 650bhp to around 800 unrestricted.

god how i hope they make a lfs stock car some day lol

Definitely tyre impact sounds, preferably linked to quickness and severity of the tyre deflection.

Other than that, find a way to greatly increase the sound "range" of a car, like switching to a simpler and less detailed (and appropriately muffled) output for the cars around the track. The deep growling of a race engine under load should be audible from all over the track, well, depending on track size of course.

Quote from AndroidXP :

The deep growling of a race engine under load should be audible from all over the track, well, depending on track size of course.

i agree 100%, i was running some V8's on oval with lfs twk at 1000bhp at about 190mph in 12ai cars, and you couldnt hear them after they go about 90% down the streight befor the next corner if your using a camera in the same position that is.

so i think it should be heard from anywere too

Quote from Jimmy_Lemon :

heh thats awsome. thanks.

but shame you had to use a 4 letre flat 8 tho :S, stock cars are 5.7-5.8 letre V8's with 650bhp to around 800 unrestricted.

god how i hope they make a lfs stock car some day lol

I don't have my wheel with me atm, so if I made it more powerful I wouldn't be able to cope with it. Flat 8 sounds more like a V8, than a V8 in LFS.