Quote from thisnameistaken :

That's in the bible? I practice self-love all the time - I never realised it might get me into the afterlife.

Thus proving heaven must be full of wankers.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Thus proving heaven must be full of wankers.

so the internet is the closest thing to heaven we got ?

Quote from Bob Smith :

Thus proving heaven must be full of wankers.

Quote from Shotglass :

so the internet is the closest thing to heaven we got ?

No, that's the BMW owners club

Quote from duke_toaster :

No, that's the BMW owners club

What? Did you just say that Scawen is a wanker?

Quote from duke_toaster :

No, that's the BMW owners club

Phew! Having a lousy car saved me.

(And remember what that wonderful t-shirt said: Jesus saves, and only takes half damage)

Quote from JamesF1 :

I love how so many people find it necessary to take Bible verses entirely out of context so they can make it say what the want to. It annoys me no end when people, like the guy this thread is about, take everything so far out of context they seemingly justify their killing and own selfish ends. Just like you couldn't grab any old few words from an autobiography and understand the life context.

Thunderhead, you might actually want to look at Luke 19:27 in context before attempting to discredit it. It's part of a parable... parables are used for illustration (metaphors, if you will) and, as such, should not be taken literally. Parables are symbolic allegories.

Small rant, about context, over.

Thanks James for summing up what I feel, too.

The actual Ten Commandments do NOT say that you are not allowed to kill. You can kill all you want, but you cannot murder.

Quote from Albieg :

(And remember what that wonderful t-shirt said: Jesus saves, and only takes half damage)

I thought it said "Jesus saves, but Satan scores on the rebound"

Technically I could mix up the discussion a bit by saying that the ten commandments are deprecated and made obsolete by Jesus dying on the cross, but that would start a big mess with "and then you're allowed to kill" thingy.

So I'll keep my mouth shut.

Quote from JamesF1 :

What, you mean like NOT killing people? Stupid 2000-year-old laws...

Explain to me then how a true believer George Bush says he is on a mission from god to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and in the process he (by proxy) kills depending on sources 30 000 - 950 000 men, women and children? "Thou shalt not kill" is a metaphor too?

Or how I see all the time in the news from US that this or that religious group is protesting/terrorizing that abortion clinic / womens clinic. And no news about religious groups protesting at the pentagon or white house.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

The actual Ten Commandments do NOT say that you are not allowed to kill. You can kill all you want, but you cannot murder.

Not quite correct. For starters, the 10 commandments only applied to the Jews. Aside from that, there was context to the 10 commandments. The Jews were not allowed to pre-meditate a killing on any other Jew, as the Jews were God's chosen people. However, since the death of Jesus, it's no longer applicable, and the whole 'love your neighbour' thing comes in...

Quote from Yaamboo :

Technically I could mix up the discussion a bit by saying that the ten commandments are deprecated and made obsolete by Jesus dying on the cross, but that would start a big mess with "and then you're allowed to kill" thingy.

You're quite right about the first part. The ten commandments were only relevant to the Jews to begin with, and were made obsolete by the Jesus' death - as it was the beginning of the new covenant... However, then it falls to obey the previously-mentioned two commandments found in Matthew

Quote from Krane :

Explain to me then how a true believer George Bush says he is on a mission from god to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and in the process he (by proxy) kills depending on sources 30 000 - 950 000 men, women and children? "Thou shalt not kill" is a metaphor too?

If Bush is contrary to the Bible - then he's not a true believer. So if you want to find out if he's a true believer, check what he does against what the Bible says... and you're sorted. I think you'll find that the whole pre-meditated murder thing takes out war as a viable option. And where was the love in war? 'Love your neighbour' is entirely inclusive.

Quote from JamesF1 :

You're quite right about the first part. The ten commandments were only relevant to the Jews to begin with, and were made obsolete by the Jesus' death - as it was the beginning of the new covenant... However, then it falls to obey the previously-mentioned two commandments found in Matthew

Yup, usually most people fail to realise that when discussing about it.

Quote from JamesF1 :

Not quite correct. For starters, the 10 commandments only applied to the Jews. Aside from that, there was context to the 10 commandments. The Jews were not allowed to pre-meditate a killing on any other Jew, as the Jews were God's chosen people. However, since the death of Jesus, it's no longer applicable, and the whole 'love your neighbour' thing comes in...

As far as I can understand wheel4hummer is Jewish, so he's correct as long as he applies to himself that interpretation of the 10 commandments. I agree that the New Testament gives, as you say, a different interpretation of the word of God, and in this context the same words have a different meaning that applies to Christians. Something not so subtle may be added in translation too: In Italian, for instance, it's "non uccidere", "don't kill".

Quote :

'Love your neighbour' is entirely inclusive.

I imagine some people believe it's - 'Love your next-door neighbour'.

edit: with the ppl over the hill being obviously fair-game...

Quote from Albieg :

As far as I can understand wheel4hummer is Jewish, so he's correct as long as he applies to himself that interpretation of the 10 commandments. I agree that the New Testament gives, as you say, a different interpretation of the word of God, and in this context the same words have a different meaning that applies to Christians. Something not so subtle may be added in translation too: In Italian, for instance, it's "non uccidere", "don't kill".

That's actually slightly irrelevant. Christ's death was for all, which means that the New Testament applies to the Jews, too, and that the Old Testament is no longer relevant for anyone

Quote from JamesF1 :

That's actually slightly irrelevant. Christ's death was for all

I can tell you for sure that the New Testament doesn't apply to me as a layman, and I can tell you for sure there's no way, in Italy, to make me forcibly swallow the Old or the New Testament. Despite living in a Catholic country with a strong religious interference we're still free to choose to follow religious laws or not, and if Man wants we will always be.

That's the problem, all religions believe their religion applies to everybody else. Hense we're at war with half the middle east.

religion leads the way in most modern wars

Quote from Xaid0n :

religion leads the way in most modern wars

Nothing new..its been the basis for most wars in the last 5000 years

There are more then 6 billion different religions on this planet.

It is one thing to believe there is a God and something completely different to believe he is actually concerned about us and wants us to live our lives according to his master plan.

Quote from Xaid0n :

religion leads the way in most modern wars

IMHO the (illegal) war the USA starts against iraq is not really a question of believe. More a question about who gets te oil/money.
As long as christs stick there noses into something they don´t understand/tolerate we will have this kind of wars. For me it´s ok if a country don´t like us "non-believers" in there countrys. It´s there business and I don´t have the right to judge.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

The actual Ten Commandments do NOT say that you are not allowed to kill. You can kill all you want, but you cannot murder.

Actually, the ten commandments don't mention murder, killing, adultery, or any of the other stuff that most people think (unless you work on the sabbath. In that case, you are to be put to death. Gee, thanks, God). The actual "Ten Commandments" are listed only once in the bible, starting with Exodus 34.11: "Observe thou that which I command thee this day." My personal favorite is the tenth commandment: "Don't boil a kid in its mother's milk."

The ten commandments that preachers refer to, and that everyone thinks they know, are never referred to as the ten commandments by Moses or by "God". God simply says that he will re-write on the stone tablets what he had written before Moses smashed the first tablets. But, the two writings do not match, and they do not match the ten commandments given in Exodus 34.11.

The bottom line is that the bible is a hodge-podge of conflicting stories, and that anyone who is looking for morality in that book is condemned to failure.

Quote from JamesF1 :

The ten commandments were only relevant to the Jews to begin with, and were made obsolete by the Jesus' death

you jsut managed to completely contradict all catholic and lutherian theology ... luther himself wrote interpretations of the 10 commandments to make clear what youre supposed to do to act according to them

Quote from Becky Rose :

That's the problem, all religions believe their religion applies to everybody else. Hense we're at war with half the middle east.

I didn't say that at all, and once again a misunderstanding is down to context. The sacrifice was for all, but the salvation and, thus, any commandments, are for believers.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

The bottom line is that the bible is a hodge-podge of conflicting stories, and that anyone who is looking for morality in that book is condemned to failure.

Well, show me any conflict in the Bible that can't be resolved by context and perhaps I'll have to rethink my beliefs

As for the ten commandments... they're not called that by God or Moses, no. But guess what... they're commandments, and there's ten of them. Can you make the mental link? If you want to be pedantic, there are hundreds of commandments in the Old Testament and the New Testament... so maybe it's time to stop being picky for the sake of it?

Quote from Shotglass :

you jsut managed to completely contradict all catholic and lutherian theology ... luther himself wrote interpretations of the 10 commandments to make clear what youre supposed to do to act according to them

Wait... but I didn't contradict the Bible... Surely that's what should matter to Christians?