tried out the GTR's again. Is it just me or do the pentalty's make the FXR and XRR more fun to drive than the FZR? Regardless of speed, all my FZR setups just became less sharp even with tweaking them. I guess its just a matter of totally rethinking setups?

Think of it this way: With the penalties the FZR now handles with an empty tank as it did before with a full tank. Yes, of course it is a bit more clumsy, especially if your old setup's spring rates were calculated with the wrong sprung mass. I wonder where the added mass will be put in patch X. Either in the front, which will increase moment of inertia, or in the rear, which will worsen the front/rear weight distribution.

@TBO:
Currently it's a bit difficult to see the balancing of the TBO class since the XRT is so popular in W9+. The FXO is the least popular car now. Only seldomly someone chooses it who can really drive it on the limit. That's why the FXO seldomly scores the quickest laptimes though it happens once in a while.
Right now I can't see any car as too superior or too inferior. After patch X has settled and we know the new WR times we can perhaps change the hp figures by one or two for patch Y.

Vain

Quote from s1m0n :

With extra weight car uses more fuel, wears more tires, driver has to break earlier, acceleration is slower and overall handling is ruined.

In other way, narrower tires do actually the same - you have to break earlier, accleration is slower too and handling through the cornes is worse too. That's all due to less grip.

But yes, I with this balast and intake restriction, FXO has just amazingly slow starts... But in long race, with good driver, it could compete with RB4 and XRT.

Quote from Vain :

@TBO:
Currently it's a bit difficult to see the balancing of the TBO class since the XRT is so popular in W9+. The FXO is the least popular car now. Only seldomly someone chooses it who can really drive it on the limit. That's why the FXO seldomly scores the quickest laptimes though it happens once in a while.
Right now I can't see any car as too superior or too inferior. After patch X has settled and we know the new WR times we can perhaps change the hp figures by one or two for patch Y.

Vain

Well imo you drive too much STCC (or whaeva its called now). There the xrt is the best couse fxo has its throtle blip a must have and such, it is just not fast enough. Even with the weight added, one can find great fun driving it, and not just overtake evryone at streight in lap1 as it used to be until now, it just needs some more work to get infront thats all. And balancing is what all wanted so there it is now. And i think it is just right.

Why do people think narrower tyres will make the handling worse? It will lower outright grip, but most cars in real life are RUINED by the fitment of wider tyres in terms of handling.

MX-5/Miata - crap on wider tyres
Lancia Fulvia - crap on wider tyres
Reynard F3 car - crap on wider tyres (apparently)
Lamborghini Diablo - crapper on wider tyres.

Please do not confuse handling and grip...

Scawen, is there any chance that you might reduce the FZR's ballast by 20 kg or so before the 24 hour race? At the moment, it's using 50% more fuel per lap than the XRR, is slower and wears it's tyres more. After a lot of practice, the FZR teams will be hopelessly uncompetitive in the race.

Quote from joshdifabio :

Scawen, is there any chance that you might reduce the FZR's ballast by 20 kg or so before the 24 hour race? At the moment, it's using 50% more fuel per lap than the XRR, is slower and wears it's tyres more. After a lot of practice, the FZR teams will be hopelessly uncompetitive in the race.

+1

Im looking forward for sticker/subforum in the servers section to resolve these questions - with ideas/examples for combo balancing.


and one question - why not balance LRF also? at this moment LX6 is the winner at any combo so LRF is completely left for drifters with uncompetetive FZ50s and RAs

Quote from AndRand :

Im looking forward for sticker/subforum in the servers section to resolve these questions - with ideas/examples of combo balancing.


and one question - why not balance LRF also? at this moment LX6 is the winner on any combo so LRF is completely left for drifters with uncompetetive FZ50s and RAs

RAC - Real car, can't really fudge the specs
FZ5 - 996 GT3 Specs, see above
LX6 - R400(but heavier)/westfield whatever could be tweaked.

Edit -> even though its 50 years old in design, just about any '7' with any power will be faster round a track than most all traditional sports cars.

LRF is perfectly balanced right now. Of course the FZ5 gets it's 1.4 tons a*s kicked by the LX6 around So City, but I pity the fool who drives down the Aston Gp straight in an LX6 and watches a FZ5 blow past with 50km/h more speed (yes, that'd be you, Hyperactive ).
The LX6 edges slightly ahead around the sum of all LFS tracks as far as I can see, but really, LRF and STD are the best balanced classes right now.

Vain

Quote from Vain :

The LX6 edges slightly ahead around the sum of all LFS tracks as far as I can see, but really, LRF and STD are the best balanced classes right now.

Imho they are not. RA and FZ5 are balanced pretty good. But the LX6 is faster on pretty much every track, including Aston GP.
RA is kind of tied to the real cars specs (on a side note which don't match the 02 specs or 05 specs currently). FZ5 and LX6 aren't tied to anything. LX6 is the one that should have something done, not sure what though.

EDIT [dreaming]LX6 could have a 1.3l I4 motorcycle engine with ~170hp, but then it wouldn't be LX6 anymore [/dreaming]

FZ5 is not a real car, though so can be altered a bit. More power would be nice.

FZ50 - 265bhp/ton
RA - 311
LX6 - 358

but with different mass (braking) and max speed could be balanced for competetive racing

Quote from AndRand :

FZ50 - 265bhp/ton
RA - 311
LX6 - 358

but with different mass (braking) and max speed could be balanced for competetive racing

without the driver in, those numbers mean nothing
The LX6 is still having a big advantage, but maybe with a new physics patch for the tires (very low pressure has too much advantages and not as much inconvenients) could balance a little more the class.
FZ50 seems to be a bit too quick compare to RAC, but ...when the problems with the differential will be solved may be they could compete

Quote from joshdifabio :

Scawen, is there any chance that you might reduce the FZR's ballast by 20 kg or so before the 24 hour race? At the moment, it's using 50% more fuel per lap than the XRR, is slower and wears it's tyres more. After a lot of practice, the FZR teams will be hopelessly uncompetitive in the race.

When is the 24 hour race?

I've done your request, I've taken it as a well researched value and I've made the ballast 80 kg, so you can start testing the new weight as soon as possible.

If the FZR becomes the overwhelming car of choice again now then we've gone too far.

Quote from Scawen :

When is the 24 hour race?

I've done your request, I've taken it as a well researched value and I've made the ballast 80 kg, so you can start testing the new weight as soon as possible.

If the FZR becomes the overwhelming car of choice again now then we've gone too far.

The 26th is the 24 hour race... It should be pretty popular. 90 teams and hundreds of LFS drivers!

Quote from Scawen :

When is the 24 hour race?

I've done your request, I've taken it as a well researched value and I've made the ballast 80 kg, so you can start testing the new weight as soon as possible.

If the FZR becomes the overwhelming car of choice again now then we've gone too far.

Ok great. We will be practicing most nights from now until the race on the 26th, and if a decent number of drivers turn up to the practice races throughout the next week, they should give a good indication of the balance of the class with the revised FZR handicap. The race should obviously provide an accurate idea of the competitiveness of the cars over a long distance too.

yea great and Clownpaint Gaming changed car because of 100kg.... (from FZR to XRR) now it's 80kg and FZR is again the best
I think it should be 100kg for this event cuz lot of teams picked XRR or FXR not FZR because of 100kg, we can't change car now week before race.... After 24h race get it down to 80kg again, cuz FZR deserves to be fastest car

edit: Maybe to give them 90kg, because with 80kg they are too fast and with 100kg too slow.
Scawen can you add 90kg to FZR?

Quote from N I K I :

yea great and Clownpaint Gaming changed car because of 100kg.... (from FZR to XRR) now it's 80kg and FZR is again the best
I think it should be 100kg for this event cuz lot of teams picked XRR or FXR not FZR because of 100kg, we can't change car now week before race.... After 24h race get it down to 80kg again, cuz FZR deserves to be fastest car

edit: Maybe to give them 90kg, because with 80kg they are too fast and with 100kg too slow.
Scawen can you add 90kg to FZR?

Remember that the FZR consumes a lot more fuel and needs to pit more often. You should be fine in the XRR.

By the way, I didn't expect Scawen to actually react to the 80kg request at all. I'm surprised, really.

Vain

50kg killes XRR front tires and XRR can stay out shorter then FZR... i'm not telling lies! Maybe if Scawen reduce it to 40kg it would be better.

XRR can do 20 laps
FZR can do 23 laps

I believe XRR could do 23 laps with to 40kg (i'm talking about R2 tires)

I'm testing XRR with 40kg. I'm doing same lap time and i spent 2.4% fuel per lap like before. It's just now XRR doesn't wear tires crazy. We all know XRR should stay out longer then FZR. We all know XRR should be slower then FZR.

With 50kg to XRR and 80kg to FZR situation is next:
-FZR can stay out longer and do faster lap times

With 40kg to XRR and 80kg to FZR situation is next:
-FZR is faster but it can stay out just like XRR or 1-2 laps shorter

what about fxr?

Quote from Vain :

Remember that the FZR consumes a lot more fuel and needs to pit more often. You should be fine in the XRR.

In LFS you dont pit because of the fuel, you never even reach the capacity limit because the tyres dont last long enough. Actually all tyres are the same, the ones with the higher numbers just get hot slower.

+1 for 90kg


@Flotch:
For the 24h race, FXR and XRR seem to be very equal right now. The FZR is maybe 0.3 seconds slower.

And if the FZR can really do 3 laps more, its evel as its now i'd say (now = like in W24)

They do same lap times like XRR (0.2sec slower maybe) and they can stay out longer then us too (3-5 laps longer). This really looks like XRR is worst car ATM .

Quote from ORION :

@Flotch:
For the 24h race, FXR and XRR seem to be very equal right now. The FZR is maybe 0.3 seconds slower.

And if the FZR can really do 3 laps more, its evel as its now i'd say (now = like in W24)

with 80kg FZR is 0.3 faster