i might be the only one who doesnt even think of it as a team order in the usual meaning of the word
after all they didnt interfere with the result of the race in any way and only ordered their drivers to take the victory safely ... basically all they told them was to do the smart thing

Formula 1 is more a team sport than it is individual, theres a reason the teams care about constructors more than the driver title. Its just the fans are more interested in the drivers.

Anyway, those were not team orders. My view of team orders is barrichello slamming on his brakes at A1 ring to let the cheating sc(h)um through. Ron dennis protecting a lead with his 2 cars in front is not. INdeed, Lewis was still hard after alonso right up until the second stops, if he had been a bit faster and not got caught in traffic he may have got it.

It just makes good sense to protect a 1 - 2 lead.

TBH, the FIA should be looking at ways to increase overtaking in F1 rather than give ferrari a handjob every time. I mean come on, even if hamilton had caught up to alonso in normal racing, there was no way he was going to get past him. Theres a fundamental flaw in the sport, yet they cant seem to recognise and would rather just piss about investigating complete bollocks?

Quote from DeKo :

TBH, the FIA should be looking at ways to increase overtaking in F1

when was this great time in f1 where cars overtook each other left and right anyway ?
last time i checked f1 has largely been a parade ever since and naturally so as this is the nature of non customer car races ... as such it rarely happens that there are 2 competitve drivers in cars at roughly the same strength or 2 fast drivers in the same car (interestingly enough the last time i know of was with mclaren as well back when prost and senna competed on the same team)

there is a reason why the most iconic 2 minutes in f1 happened over 30 years ago and its not that f1 has gone downhill ever since
afaik such moments have been rare in the entire history of the sport

the irionic bit is that the number one racetrack that makes most everybody dive for a new pair of pants just from hearing its name and probably many would love to see make a comeback is too bumpy too twisty and most of all too long to ever see more than one car at a time on the tv

Quote from h3adbang3r :

Montoya has a great personality, he just can't drive a car worth a damn... He needs to come back to F1 as a doughnut merchant.

That's what I thought you said.

Quote from DeKo :

TBH, the FIA should be looking at ways to increase overtaking in F1 rather than give ferrari a handjob every time. I mean come on, even if hamilton had caught up to alonso in normal racing, there was no way he was going to get past him. Theres a fundamental flaw in the sport, yet they cant seem to recognise and would rather just piss about investigating complete bollocks?

The problem with F1 is the current technical regulations.

With the current orgy on anything other than ground effect, teams have fins sprouting off everywhere. Compare it to GP2 and ChampCar , where the cars have ground effect and smaller wings.

I suggest F1 brings back ground effect and bans all aerodynamic appendages on the car's bodywork inside the wheelbase. Then the FIA should provide teams with spec front and rear wings. 3 types of front wing would be made, 1 for street circuits, 1 for Monza and 1 for all other tracks. That way drafting other cars will be much easier.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=426409#post426409 - how F1 should be.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Then the FIA should provide teams with spec front and rear wings. 3 types of front wing would be made, 1 for street circuits, 1 for Monza and 1 for all other tracks. That way drafting other cars will be much easier.

Wings made by FIA? I can agree with the rest of you post but that would be ridiculous. The cars should still be built by the teams, FIA could force teams to use smaller wings without extra bits sticking out easily, but obviously the idiot baboons don't realise it.

Quote from Blackout :

Wings made by FIA? I can agree with the rest of you post but that would be ridiculous. The cars should still be built by the teams, FIA could force teams to use smaller wings without extra bits sticking out easily, but obviously the idiot baboons don't realise it.

It would also cut costs, a lot of R and D is on aero so by having spec wings it would be cheaper - also the FIA could adjust the cornering speeds of the cars if they are too grippy. The ECUs will be made by Microsoft (complete with DRM, IE and the ability for some goon to lock the computer over your shoulder)



The old chassis could be used for teams for driver development and, for cases like SA and Honda would cut costs. One way to increase the car count is to allow (say) Ferrari to enter their old cars as Alfa Romeos/Maseratis/Fiats/Lancias/Ivecos/Innocentis/Arbaths. On the homoglation of production based engines suggested in the other thread, I forgot to mention a parent company rule. Any engine or chassis made by Fiat could be used under any Fiat badge (Ferrari, Alfa, Fiat, Lancia etc). This would massively increase car counts.

The lack of a teams limit would benefit teams. If they instead of going for a big piece of a small pie went for a small piece of a bigger pie, they would get more in the long run. F1 would get higher TV ratings if instead of the current qualifying there were two very short qualifying heats with the grid based on current WDC points with the positions that make the main race reversed.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Actually this team orders thing this time has annoyed me, and it's never annoyed me before, the reason is that they came into force so darned early. After all the pit stops where done and dusted I would not mind, but to issue team orders with no championship at steak as early as the first round of pit stops, I feel like the kid was robbed - and I was robbed as a spectator.

Strange, because usually I dont see the harm in team orders. I think I might be slowly becoming a Lewis fan.

Suprising, as I thought I supported Alonso.

Heh?

Alonso and Hamilton were lapping as fast as they were in the first stint after the first stops. They only dropped off the pace when they switched to the super soft tyre.

Both drivers set their fastest laps in the second stint, so if they were issuing team orders that early it certinaly wasn't making them back off...

But the team orders might have been 'Hold station - do not pass Alonso'. They then pitted Hamilton a few laps earlier than needs be to make sure he couldn't pass him...

Oh well, 10/10 to Lewis for not doing a Pironi.

Quote from tristancliffe :

But the team orders might have been 'Hold station - do not pass Alonso'. They then pitted Hamilton a few laps earlier than needs be to make sure he couldn't pass him...

Oh well, 10/10 to Lewis for not doing a Pironi.

I'd have thought the idea behind telling Lewis to hold station would be to stop them pushing each other? Both drivers were pushing hard after the first stops. Lewis even scuffed the wall twice, no wander Ron would have wanted them to take the pace down a notch. Wasn't like they were pushing very hard to get a gap to the cars behind, by the first stops they had the race in the bag...

In my view Lewis had no chance even if he got the extra 2/3 laps that he `supposedly` had in the car. Alonso's laps after his pitstops were pegging Lewis who had a lighter car. Lewis only took (0"009) and that was his fastest lap of the race.

He was very ragged and leery but still not going quicker than Alonso. I just can't believe the big deal that's being made of this `team orders.` I've never heard Formula One being mentioned on the radio so much, they were still mentioning it today...

My opinion is that Mclaren let them race up until it became clear that Alonso had the pace, and they decided to let Alonso win the race and save both the cars for the next race. Remember Alonso has never been good in america, so the roles may be reversed if Hamilton is fast. I don't think its cheating, its just common sense to not let your drivers push each other too hard.

No, I don't mind them either. If people want a team order free sport they should watch Tennis singles or something...

Why did Lewis immediately tuck in behind Alonso from the start? He did this even before knowing how good a start Alonso had made....strange! I'm sure he was aware that overtaking was never really going to be an option further on in the race...his best chance of winning was to go for the lead into T1. I wonder if he was told to do this?

Quote from AlienT. :

Why did Lewis immediately tuck in behind Alonso from the start? He did this even before knowing how good a start Alonso had made....strange! I'm sure he was aware that overtaking was never really going to be an option further on in the race...his best chance of winning was to go for the lead into T1. I wonder if he was told to do this?

Overtaking at T1 around the outside at the best of times is risky, at Monaco it's just stupid. Had he gone for the outside he'd have either A)Had to back right out of it and let a good few cars pass or B) Hit the wall.

Not to mention the fact he was driving the same car with the same electronic gizmos they use to make an almost perfect get away...

All I saw was Lewis being smart and not giving Massa the chance to overtake.

Anyway, even if Hamilton had 2 - 3 laps fuel left in the car, wouldnt he have pulled him in when he did anyway? If he was running on fumes, on his last lap before going into the pits and the safety car got called out, because of the new rules he would have probably ran out of fuel. Especially in monaco, its handy to have at least 2 laps of fuel going spare.

Unless it just means that he had 2 - 3 laps plus the extra margin.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Oh well, 10/10 to Lewis for not doing a Pironi.

He never had a chance to 'do a Pironi'. Alonso had him covered at every stage.

Quote from tristancliffe :

That's what I thought you said.

Nice editing my posts, but Montoya being a doughnut merchant would definately beat him racing in ANY series

McLaren have been cleared of any shenanigans...

Quote :

McLaren cleared over Hamilton row

McLaren have been cleared of any wrongdoing following an investigation into whether they illegally used team orders at the Monaco Grand Prix.

Governing body the FIA said after studying the race that McLaren "did nothing which could be described as interfering with the race result".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/h ... t/formula_one/6704973.stm

Full FIA report: http://www.fia.com/mediacentre ... t/2007/May/300507-01.html

What do you expect, I don't think even the driver himself will think it's worth the risk trying to pass on monaco