Quote from faster111 :

It would be if the damage was Realistic.

I think if discussion is more about the feel, does the car move, handle and react like it would in real life.

Quote from garph :

I think if discussion is more about the feel, does the car move, handle and react like it would in real life.

yeah it dose but when real cars crash they lose bits where this cars dont lose bits.

Quote from faster111 :

yeah it dose but when real cars crash they lose bits where this cars dont lose bits.

You can also open doors and windows on real cars but that wouldn't improve the driving realness of LFS.

and when a real car drives WITHOUT hitting stuff it's (imo) the most realistic sim on the market - this is a RACING sim, not a crashing one!

Quote from garph :

You can also open doors and windows on real cars but that wouldn't improve the driving realness of LFS.

well whats the point of open doors am on about bits falling off.

Quote from faster111 :

well whats the point of open doors am on about bits falling off.

Nevermind, you've missed the point of this thread and my point as well.

Quote from Jakg :

and when a real car drives WITHOUT hitting stuff it's (imo) the most realistic sim on the market - this is a RACING sim, not a crashing one!

I know that but come on.

Quote from faster111 :

well whats the point of open doors am on about bits falling off.

your right, what IS the point?

Yes, LFS collision detection is pissing me off atm (League race + FE2 chicane = Retirement) but if that's all i cared about i'd place TRD3

i think the cars Feel a bit like there real life counterpart but thats the fxo not too sure bout the rest , ive driven plenty of fr style cars and none of them handle as bad as the xrt


i think the xfg should probably under steer more as we all know when you hit 100 or more in a ff style car you dont steer them you pray you don't crash ( unless the car is really modded with suspension and all the other junk )

Quote from Jakg :

Yes, LFS collision detection is pissing me off atm (League race + FE2 chicane = Retirement) but if that's all i cared about i'd place TRD3

collision detection != damage handling

Quote from rovens :

chicane, people.

Gerhard Berger used to call them Chickens. Fitting, eh?

Quote from ramsy66 :

I just went out to the airfield again with my Mum, in her new car (It's a Mini, one of the new ones)

I noticed how much different it is compared to driving with my G25. Firstly, the accelerator is much more sensetive in real life, I hardly put my foot down and the revs were already up high, also changing gears doesn't feel as smooth. I feel I improved a bit since using my G25 though, as I have a deeper understanding of how cars work (at a faster speed, lol).

The thing with IRL and LFS is that in LFS you have 99% of the feedback of what the car is doing removed as you are not feeling G force through your body. Your balance centres (you ears) are not telling you about tiny changes in G. LFS does communicate weight shifts well when you know how to read it. It is then you get to notice how brutal most people are with the controls in LFS. Not having fear of injury and also no feeling of G means most people will not feed in power as they would IRL. Lead feet syndrome lol

In LFS the clutch is still semi auto in that if the engine would stall the clutch is pushed in to stop the revs dropping too low. This acts to smooth out bad clutching a lot.

First thing all people that use a clutch pedal should do is change the axis with DXTweak. IRL the clutch only operates over a small band of the travel, less than 1/3 in most cars. In LFS the clutch operates over the entire travel range.

I had the BMW Mini when I still lived in the UK. I had my Cooper for 18000 miles, but took a Works Cooper S on a 500mile tst drive/blast through Scotland as well . The BMW Mini is a strange one in that below about 4000rpm there is no real power to talk of at all, it feels like a normal FWD shopping cart. Above 4000 is where the power band starts to kick in but to get the best out of the car you have to sit above 4500rpm at all times.

Once you are in the powerband the car changes character for the better, it starts to come alive. The gear ratio is tuned such that changing at redline drops you back to 4500rpm, this is where mine most of its 18000 miles service

Quote from theirishnoob :

i think the cars Feel a bit like there real life counterpart but thats the fxo not too sure bout the rest , ive driven plenty of fr style cars and none of them handle as bad as the xrt


i think the xfg should probably under steer more as we all know when you hit 100 or more in a ff style car you dont steer them you pray you don't crash ( unless the car is really modded with suspension and all the other junk )

Try Bobs road going sets. These handle more like road going cars with bags of understeer. All production cars are made to understeer because that is a safer configuration for "normal" people. Cars tuned to go fast are made more neutral or with more bias to oversteer because that is faster and give more control during turn in and through the corner.

Also most road cars run an open diff. Try the open diff in LFS, the cars are far easier to deal with. Too many setups in LFS use a locked diff which never hapens IRL apart from certain situations. Now we are getting preload on the clutch pack this should change a lot. It means you can drive more natural with clutch pack and not get the button-off overtsteer during a corner.

While LFS is the most realistic driving sim i ever played, the damage can't be neglected.. And now i mean the engine, transmision, gearbox etc damage, not parts falling off..
Our driving style in LFS is VERY unrealistic, because of the lack of proper car mechanics damage..
We downshift from 6th to 2nd in half a second, we don't lift off gas even in the XFG, we ride the curbs like nobody (the reason why i simply ignore that Fern Bay track is in the game)... You simply CAN'T drive those Fern Bay curbs like we do..
And not to mention the RPM's of the say XFG... It idle's at what, 3000?
We simply need better damage ASAP, i know that Scawen is perfecionist, and that he doesn't want to add unfinished stuff, but better make it primitive WHILE you are perfecting it, than to let the LFS community race unrealistic.. As someone already mentioned, make a "if front of the car smashes 20%, the engine dies), something like that, primitive, but VERY useful, and certanly more realistic...
I see peoples comments after the False start implenatation, and how they are unsatisfied because the starts are radnom now, and T1 carnage is more of a problem now, you can't predict it like before, when everyone starts at the same time.. well, guess what, it's called realism...

GTR2 has engine stalling, it has engine failure, while very unrealistic probably, it adds some randomness to the game, we need randomness...
While we are racing very realistically in one point, we are racing VERY unrealistically in other..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

GTR2 has engine stalling, it has engine failure, while very unrealistic probably, it adds some randomness to the game, we need randomness...
While we are racing very realistically in one point, we are racing VERY unrealistically in other..

Take comfort in the fact that engine stalling, random malfunctions and component damages are all features easy to code and implement.

Well... at least easier than writing a proper physics engine, which LFS's main rivals lack.

In every game I played up to now, I've turned off all the "random breakdowns" offered as I feel the computer / monitor / wheel / cheap desk environment offers enough random problems on it's own to compensate for the lack of random problems in the game.

On the other hand, I would love to see wear implemeted, especially for the street cars. Boiling hot brakes have always been an issue in sedan racing, it's a decisive factor in a lot of GT and Touring races I've come to watch and would be a great addition to LFS!

I've thought a lot about this in the past. Random failures will be more irritation than immersion. Now if you input some failures related to how hard you are pushing the mechanics, then there's the gamble that can add loads to gameplay, style and strategy. But random failures - no way, it woould drive people away. It's not life, it's a game, it's a sim. People want to have fun. Random failures may be too realistic for a leisure sim, IMO.

Off course, i didn't meant randomness as a random engine failure or something like that, i meant that we need randomness as it doesn't make any sence in driving like this anymore, while we can have MUCH better experience very easily... For a start, it would be more than enough if there was a system preventing those Fern Bay redicolous curb riding, if you smack your car in a wall at more than 30, 40 km/h your engine dies, or downshift from 6th to 2nd in miliseconds, resulting in killing your transmission/engine, etc, etc... i bet that's a two days of coding, but than again, i am not even sure does Scawen even wants that in the first place, and that makes me sad..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Off course, i didn't meant randomness as a random engine failure or something like that, i meant that we need randomness as it doesn't make any sence in driving like this anymore, while we can have MUCH better experience very easily... For a start, it would be more than enough if there was a system preventing those Fern Bay redicolous curb riding, if you smack your car in a wall at more than 30, 40 km/h your engine dies, or downshift from 6th to 2nd in miliseconds, resulting in killing your transmission/engine, etc, etc... i bet that's a two days of coding, but than again, i am not even sure does Scawen even wants that in the first place, and that makes me sad..

All bets are off when it comes to coding.

I'm rather positive we'll get internal component damages some day. Would be rather silly to have a suspension that can break or bend in multiple different ways and have no engine, radiator or drivetrain damage to go with it.

I figured the random breakdowns would be more like, 'I might be able to run over the kerb this time but next time might pop my tyre' or 'Phew, glad I didn't bust my radiator this time when the guy in front of me suddenly braked'.

If you get the idea...

Quote from Boris Lozac :

We simply need better damage ASAP, i know that Scawen is perfecionist, and that he doesn't want to add unfinished stuff

The damage was already unfinished when it was added to S2. Wasn't it added because it was hoped to solve ridiculous curb cutting? Obviously it didn't solve that

Yea, you're right...
Is there a programer here, is a visual damage totally different thing than mechanical damage? I mean, is it simple to add a string that if my front end is smashed all the way to my windshield to make the engine die, and not able to continue?

Quote from Boris Lozac :

i am not even sure does Scawen even wants that in the first place, and that makes me sad..

Don't be sad about an assumption you make that may have no grounding in fact or truth. Be happy he's given us such a great sim to play with.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Yea, you're right...
Is there a programer here, is a visual damage totally different thing than mechanical damage? I mean, is it simple to add a string that if my front end is smashed all the way to my windshield to make the engine die, and not able to continue?

I'd think calculating accelerations and G-forces during collision detection would be one solution to decide whether the engine had suffered catastrophic damage (severed from chassis, bent stuff inside, etc). Of course over-reving would blow bolts through aluminum too, but we have that already in some form.

Radiator damage might be linked to body deformation (vertice thisandthat moves -50 units on X-axis -> punctures radiator -> roll 1D10 how many minutes it'll keep working until dying).

EDIT: Is there any Insim apps that can receive telemetry data in high detail? Info about inertia, de-acceleration, G-forces and so on?

Quote from al heeley :

I've thought a lot about this in the past. Random failures will be more irritation than immersion. Now if you input some failures related to how hard you are pushing the mechanics, then there's the gamble that can add loads to gameplay, style and strategy. But random failures - no way, it woould drive people away. It's not life, it's a game, it's a sim. People want to have fun. Random failures may be too realistic for a leisure sim, IMO.

I agree. If you do something stupid that causes the car damage etc thats fine. Then its teh drivers fault but random... no

Quote from Mike85 :

It shouldn't be random. Because it would kill the competition. But the "randomnes" would come later when the engine model is complete. Then it would be exciting.

Its already exciting racing wheel to wheel in LFS. Atleast that thing works in LFS.

There is no such thing as random engine failure. It's always down to human errors such as driver mistreatment, engineering/technical faults, unforseen environmental factors, etc.

Until the day engines are properly simulated along with environmental factors e.g. dust and LFS becomes a true racing simulator that covers both the driving and engineering side, there shouldn't be "random" engine failures.

On the flipside, if a car hits a wall at any speed over say 0-30km/h it should suffer coolant leaks, engine misalignment, etc and effectively DNFed. Same for silly kerbing, where it should result in broken suspension and of course another DNF. These are what I agree should be there because these cases have real causes and aren't random.