Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Well the biased moderators close any similar threads started in the LFS section, so what else can you do if someone is looking for a balanced poll.

:ices_rofl Yep, nobody over at RSC likes LFS. illepall

Someday, people may actually know what they're talking about before posting. Have you ever stopped and wondered why the thread isn't in either section and instead can be found where it belongs???

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Whats the point? RSC are full of people who think that because they spin lots and the cars are shiney the game is realistic, so they will always vote for GTR2

You seem to be forgetting the GPL crowd - the most obsessive compulsive simracers in The World It's likely they wouldn't pick GTR2 over LFS in a fit! But then most GPL'ers won't vote unless GPL is an option ...

Now, just out of interest, since GPL is the only section at RSC that I visit (since LFS moved here) and is pretty civilised, can someone tell me where this attitude towards RSC comes from?

edit: reading further through the thread it seems both sides of the coin could stand to pull their horns in a little bit. This simracing thing really pours sand in some peoples' underpants doesn't it?

Dude and dudes, who cares about what they think, horny graphics and fancy stuff makes them believe GTR2 is better than Lfs, i think the best way to show this up is not going into a low arss fanboy style discussion, simply because WE KNOW LFS IS IN FACT the best overall out there so far, it's not something that needs to be proved, it just needs to be realised by them.

ok thats enough care, what i want to say is **** them, **** them

You've got the wrong idea slidaaa

For once GTR2 members and LFS members are actually getting along, thats what its all about. It's also pretty interesting too.

Quote from Slidaaaa :

Dude and dudes, who cares about what they think, horny graphics and fancy stuff makes them believe GTR2 is better than Lfs, i think the best way to show this up is not going into a low arss fanboy style discussion, simply because WE KNOW LFS IS IN FACT the best overall out there so far, it's not something that needs to be proved, it just needs to be realised by them.

ok thats enough care, what i want to say is **** them, **** them

I wonder why there's friction between different groups of people, then I read stuff like that^ *sigh*

What we "know" is that LFS'ers prefer LFS to other sims based on their experiences. That doesn't mean it's the best! What I'm starting to understand is that there are some LFS'ers who are like fundy evangelists with a "you're with us or you're against us!" kind of attitude, which really isn't cool. Thankfully those people are in the minority. Gawd, just play what you like and please don't slam other people for doing the same!

@ XCNuse: the conversation has smartened up a bit over there, it's true. Kudos to those involved :up: I do know it's possible to have a civilised discussion about GTR2 and LFS over here, however I'm not sure how probable it is. I've seen many threads here start out fine but, sooner or later, someone comes in with a Zippo and a can of kerosense ..

Quote from XCNuse :

You've got the wrong idea slidaaa

For once GTR2 members and LFS members are actually getting along, thats what its all about. It's also pretty interesting too.

NO !!!

Not talking about the decent people! im talking about the guys (lame kids) that bash LFS like if it was shit!

Respect to be respected, right?

But still, what im trying to say is *** them, and im tired of coments of these GTR2 fanboys in my videos on youtube, check by yourself, really offensive stuff by GTR players (the lame ones im talking about), see
http://youtube.com/watch?v=K8AtbP5UCks check LFS videos on youtube and you will see several other bashing too

Quote from Hankstar :

You seem to be forgetting the GPL crowd - the most obsessive compulsive simracers in The World It's likely they wouldn't pick GTR2 over LFS in a fit! But then most GPL'ers won't vote unless GPL is an option ...

Now, just out of interest, since GPL is the only section at RSC that I visit (since LFS moved here) and is pretty civilised, can someone tell me where this attitude towards RSC comes from?

edit: reading further through the thread it seems both sides of the coin could stand to pull their horns in a little bit. This simracing thing really pours sand in some peoples' underpants doesn't it?

In RSC some bits are OK, some bits aren't. GPL is civilised, as is GeneRally, but I don't post in the GTR2 sections - GTR2 is a better sim that GT4, but it supposedly has shite netcode. And for that matter GT racing doesn't really float my boat (Single seaters and tourers FTW).

Quote from duke_toaster :

In RSC some bits are OK, some bits aren't. GPL is civilised, as is GeneRally, but I don't post in the GTR2 sections - GTR2 is a better sim that GT4, but it supposedly has shite netcode. And for that matter GT racing doesn't really float my boat (Single seaters and tourers FTW).

It's interesting, the more advanced the physics engine the more polite and sportsman like the racers.

I play both LFS and GTR2. There are so many aspects that I wish could be merged. LFS has great physics and feedback. It also has great multiplayer, no other sim comes close. But it's all to clean.

GTR has all the things that put you off driving that perfect line. The dirt, the bumps, the noise, the rain. This make the racing more exciting.

They are both great sims and you should just play which ever takes your fancy that day, in the same way you don't always drive the same car.

But if I had to choose one it would be LFS

Quote from moeFinley :

It's interesting, the more advanced the physics engine the more polite and sportsman like the racers. :

If that was the case, the GeneRally section would be like Brixton

GeneRally is great though, I wonder if the LFS tracks have been made for it....

Just to give you guys a laugh:
http://forum.rscnet.org/showpo ... 3466414&postcount=146

Some good shit right there. :doh:

I can't believe they actually left such a flamebait thread open, but then again it's RSC, so who cares?

The RSC forum users were very happy after the lfs subfolder was closed. IMHO lfs fans are even more hardheaded so I can understand rsc very well.

Most realistic physics goes to lfs. But thats all. LFS never can´t win against graphics, feeling and realism of GTL/GTR(2). LFS graphics are just crappy in 2007, also the sound.

It goes both ways and at the end of the day it's up to the moderators to curb this type of behavior, which they do nothing about besides add their own spam to the thread instead of closing it, which should have been done on Page 1 to begin with... showing you why NOT to use RSC, at least on other forums there is an attempt to prevent outbursts...

Quote from Crazy Harry :

The RSC forum users were very happy after the lfs subfolder was closed. IMHO lfs fans are even more hardheaded so I can understand rsc very well.

Most realistic physics goes to lfs. But thats all. LFS never can´t win against graphics, feeling and realism of GTL/GTR(2). LFS graphics are just crappy in 2007, also the sound.

LOL!

I'll let you get away with the graphics and sound being better in GTR2 (although you are clearly wrong, unless you like cartoons and crappy mixing), but to say the feel is better is laughable.

As for realism, physics aside (which includes feel!), I might give it to GTR2, if only because they have real teams, cars, tracks and nicer cockpits, and 'real' rules. But realism (as opposed to realistic physics) is such a tiny priority for me, and usually means you can only simulate a single series or two.

Quote from tristancliffe :

... because they have real teams, cars, tracks and nicer cockpits, and 'real' rules...

That´s my definition of "feeling".

Ohok. My definition of feeling is the car responding, via sound, movement and FFB, vaguely like a real car does. You cannot possibly say that GTR has this.

And the language barrier kicks in

Quote from tristancliffe :

Ohok. My definition of feeling is the car responding, via sound, movement and FFB, vaguely like a real car does. You cannot possibly say that GTR has this.

I can't say that it does much in those areas for me either, sadly. It could have been an awesome game. I guess it is there , in a way, but it's even more vague than LFS is...then we are back onto bashing and flaming which these topics will always bring up. Personally I will stick with my fake cars better physics to the souped up arcade games. I do like the night/day stuff with GTR2, but thats graphics not physics.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Ohok. My definition of feeling is the car responding, via sound, movement and FFB, vaguely like a real car does. You cannot possibly say that GTR has this.

I never feel any kind of realism in any kind of computer game because of the missing g-forces in front of my pc. Even FFB in ANY game with ANY wheel feels completly unrealitic to me. My front wheels irl never act like a ffb wheel. Thats the reason I always disable ffb and enalbe center spring. Brings me a kind of a realistic steering feeling.

Quote from Crazy Harry :

I never feel any kind of realism in any kind of computer game because of the missing g-forces in front of my pc. Even FFB in ANY game with ANY wheel feels completly unrealitic to me. My front wheels irl never act like a ffb wheel. Thats the reason I always disable ffb and enalbe center spring. Brings me a kind of a realistic steering feeling.

If you cannot feel anything through your RL wheel then you are not going fast enough. I feel every bump, curb and even the road paint through my wheel in my car. Going through a corner I can feel the suspension moving and if I hit a bump in the road the wheel jerks, if I light up the fronts the wheel goes dead and light. When I apply the throttle the wheel pulls in the direction I am steering ever so slightly.

I have also been on the track with various other cars and can say that while not perfect out of all the games I have played LFS and NKpro do the best job of simulating FFB, too bad NK has poor netcode. Again it's not perfect but it's the best out there and doesn't do too bad of a job. (was a track-day type event, drove all of Dodge's SRT vehicles around Road America, including the Viper)

IIRC an F1 driver tested LFS and Rfactor in a simulator. I believe his words were "wow this feels really good, I could almost be on the track" while he didn't say anything bad about RFactor he didn't say anything good besides "fun Game" or something like that.

I did not say that I can´t feel my front wheels, I just sayed that my front wheel did NOT act like a ffb wheel..... and if you feel your suspension in the wheel: The steering or the suspension must be damaged.

Hehe wording got me again =)

What kind of car do you have? I guess what your saying is that the FFB is so horrible it doesn't even remotely feel like your wheel in your car?

I originally took your statement as your wheel in your car was just like a wheel in LFS with FFB off and spring strength on, which I hope would never happen! =) (Saturn uses an electric power steering system which because of the electric motor reduces feedback so much that they had to simulate wheel movements IIRC, I could be wrong)

I´m driving old Opel cars for ages now. Mostly without power steering. Can´t exactly tell you what ffb does wrong but imho its way too much motion in the wheel at the pc. (used momo, dfp and now G25)

I´m getting older so i get also calmer on the street but in my younger days I use to do a lot of crazy driving, specially drifting on the streets. A pc game gives me no feeling if the rear is trying to overtake. Maybe I´m missing the g forces. IRL is completly no problem to drift and re-enter a straight line. Can´t do that on the pc using the cockpit view because the wheel gives me no realistic response. So I always use chase view to "see" the cars tail. =)

Ahh I think what you mean. With any FFB wheel there is a set minimum movement due to many things, like gearplay. And the small tiny little tugs that happen in a RL are not there, the motors simply cannot change direction that fast =) not without running a very expensive motor, you could possibly make it better with a 2 motor system but that would cause more issues.

I do agree that LFS or any simulation doesn't do these, but for me the basics are there and if I forget about the little things that are missing it's not too far off =)

Nice car =) Here is a gallery of my car. http://www.front-runners.net/g ... 2/main.php?g2_itemId=1130

The G25 feels good to me. Feels like my MX-5, like my racing Fulvia, like an F3 car. It's good. It DOESN'T feel like modern things like Audis with far too much power steering assistance, but they are not designed for sporty driving.

As for feeling suspension and the rear of the car, I can feel the rear in the steering wheel in real life (albeit supplemented by 'seat-of-my-pants' forces) and in LFS (and nKP, but not ISI games), and I can feel the effects of suspension movement (causing a loading of the tyre which translates to steering feedback) in both reality and in game.

If you can't, either you drive rubbish cars (Opels ), don't understand how cars feel (unlikely, as you're not slow), or are so reliant on g-forces that you could be even better in reality by 'listening' to your steering wheel.