Damned if you do...
Do licensed players really use demo servers that much anyway?

If I were a dev respecting the rule of not negotiating with whines of mass distraction terrorists, the sensible choice would be to give players what they play the game for: more speed.

1) Scawen does not want there to be "different versions" of cars from server to server. It causes a lot of confusion, especially with setups.

2) Scawen wants to balance the cars so one car no longer dominates. An obvious move and you'd be silly to disagree with that.

Something's got to give, surely you can see that?



LFS won't stay unbalanced and exactly the same forever just so you and your buddies can drive your XRT's without any changes.

Put it this way, what about REAL racing series? They change every year, teams and drivers have to adapt to the changes every year and they don't complain because something worked differently last year. Suck it up and adapt. If this changed every month I'd agree with you, but it doesn't. I find it amazing that you are even complaining that things have changed since S1... What do you think this sim is called? "Live For Wasaabi"???

Quote from wasaabi :

I very rarely see TBO class races on S2 servers

you must have been living under a rock for the last 6 months there was at least 1 tbo server which was full 24/7

Quote from Breizh :

Do licensed players really use demo servers that much anyway?

not too long ago it was the only place to get a decent tbo race (ie one that isnt a fxo only competition)

while i agree that there isnt that much point in having the balancing in place on single car an dorifto servers its not like 20 kg really makes that much of a difference

God help us when we get changing track conditions like temperatures and stuff... And how about wind?

It's the same for everyone, deal with it.

Quote from Shotglass :

while i agree that there isnt that much point in having the balancing in place on single car an dorifto servers its not like 20 kg really makes that much of a difference

Yes, it's actually just like you had taken 40% fuel instead of 10%

Quote from Breizh :

He has a point, though, whiny or not. What's the use of ballasting the XRT in the Demo servers?

#

So People don't whine and make a post all over again when they move to S2 and discover the car is 20kg heavier and they have to redo a setup that is perfect, took thousand of their precious hours, feel like losing a arm for not being able to use it.


come on....if you cannot change a set for 20kg of handicap, maybe you should learn how to setup, all over again?

Quote from atledreier :

God help us when we get changing track conditions like temperatures and stuff... And how about wind?

It's the same for everyone, deal with it.

"Aaaargh, no, now I have to make different setups for different track temperatures and air temperatures."

There will always be people who bitch about a patch... we saw it last year in the April update and this year again. 99% of the paying customers (and some new ones I'm sure) are more than thrilled with the changes.

Seriously... boohoo, 20kg, raise the rear a mm or two and stiffen the rear springs by a kN/m or two and your car will drive just the same even if it's .2s slower per lap. The important thing is the classes are now balanced and you can have proper multi-car races online. That means that everyone can drive the car they actually enjoy rather than the fastest car in the class.

Balancing? nice idea, but its sim, right? i think car difference is natural and no need to be balanced. else why not adding more power to xrg? lets put a ton to bf1, and then try to race balanced

okay, its just opinion.

:doh:

Obviously you're a demo racer, so you don't actually know why the classes were balanced - I guess you wouldn't like a class where the cars are different but have on average equal chances to win then, but rather you'd like the old system where the FXO completely dominated XRT and RB4 on every track (bar rallyX)?

The current class balancing is very good and while maybe not perfect, it's already much better than the absolute FXO/FZR ownage we had beforehand. And just because the cars drive about equal lap times now does not mean they handle all the same. The different cars still have different advantages depending on the track layout.

Quote from xt :

Balancing? nice idea, but its sim, right? i think car difference is natural and no need to be balanced. else why not adding more power to xrg? lets put a ton to bf1, and then try to race balanced

:doh:
Difference is normal yes, but this is still a game and it's more fun if every car in the same class are competitive. LFS' cars aren't even bound by real life specs so there is no reason why the specs couldn't be changed. Ballast/Restrictor plate system was used because it doesn't screw up the WRs and it has other uses too (leagues). It is also T E M P O R A R Y.

Quote from xt :

Balancing? nice idea, but its sim, right? i think car difference is natural and no need to be balanced. else why not adding more power to xrg? lets put a ton to bf1, and then try to race balanced

okay, its just opinion.

Yes, car difference is normal, but there are severall car classes in LFS and those classes had a clearly strongest car making the other cars hardly used because they were almost always uncompetitive. This requires adjustments, it´s something the community has been asking for for a long time.
If one of the cars in a class is clearly the best, it´s not of much use to create car classes in the first place.
The BF1 is a real car so it should have the real specs. And besides that, the BF1 is alone in it´s class so balancing wouldn´t be needed anyway.

Quote from AndroidXP :

:doh:

Obviously you're a demo racer, so you don't actually know why the classes were balanced - I guess you wouldn't like a class where the cars are different but have on average equal chances to win then, but rather you'd like the old system where the FXO completely dominated XRT and RB4 on every track (bar rallyX)?

The current class balancing is very good and while maybe not perfect, it's already much better than the absolute FXO/FZR ownage we had beforehand. And just because the cars drive about equal lap times now does not mean they handle all the same. The different cars still have different advantages depending on the track layout.

anyways, demo or licensed, this do not changes the topic, and handicaps to car is kinda unlogical (its temporary or not). okay, lets leave it and look at it from other point of view. lets say that im super pro, and i dont see a challenge online, then i can increase handicap to myself and then challenge others. another ponint of view. im good at some car but cant beat the car that owns ohter cars, then i switch to that car and learn to drive her to be the owner.

personaly i will deal with ALL changes, but im suggesting this if Live for Speed will be going with sim tag. (XRT simulated with 20 kg sandbag in trunk?.. also simulation, cant disagree )

Quote from xt :

personaly i will deal with ALL changes, but im suggesting this if Live for Speed will be going with sim tag. (XRT simulated with 20 kg sandbag in trunk?.. also simulation, cant disagree )

It's not a sandbag. The car just weighs 20kg more than before..

Quote from wasaabi :

I took a quick poll in the demo server that I was in before making this post and out of 14 people no one liked the idea of this handicap... I very rarely see TBO class races on S2 servers which is why I race in demo.

CTRA Silver & Gold? OLT Pro server?

Quote from AndroidXP :

Please don't take it personally, and maybe I'm wrong, but something just really irks me about your posts.

Nail on the head, it's not like you just don't like something, irrespective of what it is you complain.

Quote from xt :

anyways, demo or licensed, this do not changes the topic, and handicaps to car is kinda unlogical (its temporary or not). okay, lets leave it and look at it from other point of view. lets say that im super pro, and i dont see a challenge online, then i can increase handicap to myself and then challenge others. another ponint of view. im good at some car but cant beat the car that owns ohter cars, then i switch to that car and learn to drive her to be the owner.

erm - it used to be that if you got in one car (the FXO) you WOULD win because it was massively faster, and now this has been fixed (almost - but thats something else)

You can already increase your own handicrap

Quote from xt :

anyways, demo or licensed, this do not changes the topic

Yes it does. Because demo racers do not have access to the TBO class, but just to the XRT. Of course the 20kg don't make sense to you, because you have never raced in the TBO class. But everyone who has will agree with the changes, because now all three cars have quite equal chances of winning, instead of the FXO dominating the class.

reduce performance of those cars or do heavier and all TBO will be balanced. not that temporary handicap option!

Erm, how do you think they were ballancing the cars in the first place? with more weight, of course....

Quote from xt :

reduce performance of those cars or do heavier and all TBO will be balanced. not that temporary handicap option!

Just that will be done.. But changing the weight, power or anythign else of the car permanently needs a physically incompatible patch. That is why a temporary balancing was implemented so that the balance can be changed inbetween physics patches too.

Quote from Jakg :

You can already increase your own handicrap

dude, you say this like you increasing handicap everytime..

forget it.

I don't think there is a right or wrong point of view here.

You could say that a car should be the same wherever you drive it, but they are still different online vs. offline. So if that difference is acceptable and makes no or little difference, then surely adding ballast to every fxo on a just-fxo server makes no difference either.
There's no point in adding the ballast if the cars are not competing in the TBO class, but then there's not much point in going to the trouble of taking it away either.
However, if there were an FXO only series, why shouldn't they enjoy the full blooded FXO if the ballast is a temporary TBO balancing device?

my 2cents

Quote from axus :

Seriously... boohoo, 20kg, raise the rear a mm or two and stiffen the rear springs by a kN/m or two and your car will drive just the same even if it's .2s slower per lap. The important thing is the classes are now balanced and you can have proper multi-car races online. That means that everyone can drive the car they actually enjoy rather than the fastest car in the class.

Nail hit right on the head.

I really can't see the mentality of this complaining about the balancing

Disregard my post. I hadn't actually thought about it, 20kg is nothing..
Not dividing the community is a better rule of thumb than not applying class balancing for 20kg's worth of extra speed in servers not using the full TBO class.

xt, handicaps exist in real life as well. For example, in certain series, cars with more power than a certain amount would have added mass to even them out... this can also be drivetrain based - for example, RWD cars might get handicapped because of their better handling. Saying handicaps are unrealistic is therefore idiotic. Voluntary handicaps are also fantastic for leagues albeit it'd be even better if they could be server enforced.

Quote from wasaabi :

561!! keep the useless BS coming!

I have chosen to take part in the community, until now you have not. I cannot apologize for taking an interest in something I enjoy.

Quote from wasaabi :

I took a quick poll in the demo server that I was in before making this post and out of 14 people no one liked the idea of this handicap... I very rarely see TBO class races on S2 servers which is why I race in demo. I have the feeling these changes have been the result of bitching forum warriors such as yourself. And thats a shame.

Demo racers are not the consumer base that the developers are trying to please. In fact, they’re not really out to please anyone. It is almost comical you have not seen the TBO class become hugely popular in the recent past. The STCC and then the CTRA have (bold statement) revolutionized LFS for lots of users. It is comical that I rarely take part in the STCC or CTRA, but you accuse me of bitching for balancing. Before the balancing came out, I had absolutely No opinion or comments on it.

Quote from wasaabi :

and to you Mr. Breakin it down : The connection issue was something stupid that should have been gone a while ago, they did good to fix it! the other improvements done so far during S2 have been great, I like the new sounds and the rest of the interface stuff. Thats all great. This handicap to me is as stupid as it could possibly be. An unchangeable added weight thats only there during multiplayer, even in demo races where the XRT is the only TBO car. Doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me...

It is pretty simply. Single player allows users to continue to set valid WR hot laps. SP also allows testing of various lower ballast/intake combinations such that the community can help balance the classes more. Multi-player has closer class racing in the TBO and GTR classes due to the Global Class Balancing. GCB was heavily discussed and tested for quite some time (by well more than 14 demo racers or solely “Forum-Warriors”). Physics improvements have presumably already begun, so with Patch Y all WR’s will be reset, and your setups will need reworking again.

Thankfully, LFS gives Every user the opportunity to take part in the development of the sim through the test patch program. While the test patch sub-forum is gone now, once we get closer to Patch Y it will return and you will have the opportunity to voice your thoughts. Get involved, try the test patches, help LFS move forwards.

I am sorry if the 20kg does not make sense to you, but if you continue to stay out of the process and community your voice will continue to not be heard.

Quote from xt :

anyways, demo or licensed, this do not changes the topic, and handicaps to car is kinda unlogical (its temporary or not). okay, lets leave it and look at it from other point of view. lets say that im super pro, and i dont see a challenge online, then i can increase handicap to myself and then challenge others. another ponint of view. im good at some car but cant beat the car that owns ohter cars, then i switch to that car and learn to drive her to be the owner.

personaly i will deal with ALL changes, but im suggesting this if Live for Speed will be going with sim tag. (XRT simulated with 20 kg sandbag in trunk?.. also simulation, cant disagree )

obviously you have never heard of restricter plate and ballasts.