100% agreed.
100% agreed.
thanks for proving my point
That's a different scenario though. That's some clown diving up the inside from a mile away and it has exactly the same result in LFS.
That's two drivers showing eachother respect and racing cleanly - exactly how it should be done.
Anyone who doesn't leave you room when you've kept your car alongside is a knob. Especially in a sim-race where there's nothing at stake.
Alonso hit Massa, not the other way around. If he had forced Alonso off after that it would've been Alonso's fault for unsettling both cars.
That's a very particular example. It's practically a hairpin and the car on the outside hasn't a cat in hell's chance of maintaining the overlap by the exit. Now consider the esses out back at Aston - big radius corners and plenty of opportunity for a car on the outside to stay on the outside by the exit. Would sticking your car up the inside in one of those grant you the full width of the circuit on the exit?
Now this makes sense. Saying (as Keiran did) that once you "commit" to a corner you can't possibly alter your line and it is inevitable that your car will run to the outside kerb on the exit is just pure bollocks. It's not like the controls suddenly stop working once you want to accelerate.
IMO: If the driver on the inside wants to force the driver on the outside to give up the position then he has to turn in late, and in doing so delay the outside driver's turn-in point. By doing that you're basically making the corner sharper, so you're increasing the difference between the line you take and the line he takes (if he stays outside), practically guaranteeing yourself the position. It's easy enough to do and it means no ambiguity, and - best of all - the responsibility is all on the guy on the outside not to turn in on you.
There's nothing wrong with the F1 clips. If they can leave room on the outside anyone can.
you know the ironic bit is that it was ayrton who a while ago complained about how others dodnt understand significant overlap and wanted him to give up the inside for just having a nose in and now just a few weeks later he wants them to give up the outside regarless of how much overlap they have
no man, i totally disagree with that, i said that other people expect to pass by just sticking their nose beside my rear wheel, i comit myself and make sure that they can see me.
never have i said that.
heres the proof man
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=9203
As long as you are side-by-side, you have NOT overtaken, therefore you're not entitled to use the full width on corner exit!
is this the bit of proof in that thread that your thinking of?
sorry couldnt resist
Troy
Depends how it's done.
If you are trying to pass someone around the outside of a bend at the exit and you have not made it fully alongside them then that person is quite within their rights to use all of the track they need for the exit. This is the normal racing line. This is know as a 'squeeze'. A sensible driver who is being squeezed should back off to avoid an accident.
If on the other hand the car trying to pass on the outside at exit gets fully alongside and the driver moves over and makes contact or forces them onto the grass this is known as 'side swiping' and is considered dangerous driving in real world motorsport so you shouldn't do it in LFS either.
haha yea man, when i first started, i didnt know how to overtake, i put my nose beside their wheel and usually hit them because i DIDNT know how to pass, similar to alot of the LFSers.
totally agree!
That is two situations I agree on.
And of course, it depends on the situation. But the thing is that these people seem to push people off the track no matter if the other car is slightly infront on the exit or is just a bit behind.
And one more thing, you haven't passed anyone until you are infront of them.
If someone is slightly in front of you, they do not change their line or speed and you hit them then the collision is clearly your fault.
If they are slightly in front of you and then they suddenly change direction and you have no time to react and contact occurs then it is their fault for driving in a dangerous manner (swerving).
On the other hand, if they brake earlier for a corner than you are expecting and they have not changed their position on track then it is your fault for not giving yourself enough room to allow for such things.
Ofcourse blocking is allowed. Say you come off a corner together and you are behind. You go for the inside line but the driver in front moves slowly across to cover you and this forces you down the outside, this is fine.
If on the other hand they don't notice you going down the inside until the last moment and then suddenly swerve to block you and this results in contact then I would consider this dangerous driving also and not a fair block. To swerve back the other way and block again afterwards is a definate no no.
Blocking should be done in such a way as to not cause contact. If a driver is already up to your rear wheel then you've missed the chance to block and have to accept that they have that track position.
I'm not a karter, I've never karted in my life, but I have to agree with this.
In LFS, drivers rarely actually try and prevent a pass by putting their car in a defensive position before a corner, they will just try to defend after you're alongside eachother. It's a hell of a lot more satisfying racing against someone who actually drives like they want to win, than it is to pot along beside eachother, taking in the views.
However, I do think that as most who race in LFS don't do so to a particularly high standard, we would see more accidents if they were to drive more aggressively.
Agreed, but I thought this was more about those who attempt a pass on the inside, then run the outside car off the road on the exit of the corner, not those trying to pass around the outside.
Unless I've got it horribly wrong.
Assuming I haven't, regarding the junk being spewed forth by the "karters" / those defending running other cars off the road, I beg the question: when you put yourself down the inside under braking and achieve significant overlap, do you expect the other car to turn in on you? After all, they have the line for the corner, right? If you answer "no", then may I point out that it's no different to what you do to others on the exit of the corner. If the defending car can make space for you on the apex of the corner, and the defending car manages to maintain some overlap around the outside of the corner, then you can make space for them on the outside.
It'd be different on a league server where the racing is more competitive and you can guarantee the skill of the other drivers, but on a public server with pick-up short races where the emphasis is on having an enjoyable race and the quality of drivers varies, the kind of driving being proposed by ayrton and alan is just plain rude and dirty, imho.
Good points there. The thing about real life racing is that if someone 'shuts the door' on someone who is attempting to stick it down the inside, whether they have adequate overlap or not (level before the apex), if contact is made it's usually the outside car that bounces off the outside of the track and into the tyres or whatever. In LFS however, this doesn't always seem to be the case and contact often results in both cars spinning wildly.
I think that is part of the reason there are more problems with this in LFS than real life racing.
Sure, if the driver sticking it down the inside doesn't have overlap you are within your rights to 'slam the door' but if contact is made you will probably lose time and maybe positions anyway so to me doesn't make sense.
The way I approach it is this. If they've got down the inside of me I won't slam the door (unless I don't know they are there). Instead I will tuck in behind them and attempt a pass at the next available opportunity.
TRUE
To ayrton senna 87 :bump: , drivers should just spectate when someone is on the inside and he probably thinks that Gilles Villeneuve and René Arnoux are the worst driver in history. OMG they give each other rooom ! :uglyhamme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIJuqUsj7zA
Dijon 79 i'm guessing without looking at the link...classic stuff
As I have said, it depends on the corner, and the degree of overlap is crucial. Who is defending and who is attacking is irrelevant, the important thing is where the two cars are in relation to one another.
If I'm thinking of the same esses as you are, the quick ones following the tight uphill right hander, then again it all depends on the overlap. If car A (defender or attacker it doesn't matter) is inside but has only a small overlap, say front bumper level with rear wheel, then car B can turn in as normal and car A should yield (brake/lift). If car A has only a 3/4 overlap by the apex, then he can't expect car B to lift, but should expect room to be given so both cars will go through the corner slower. If car A has full overlap or more, then car B should yield asap and expect car A to drive through the corner flat out (tis a race after all), which would take the car towards the outside of the corner on the exit.
The most stupid accidents are the ones where a car on the outside with a tiny overlap tries to hang on, he has no right to expect the car on the inside to lift instead of him to avoid the collision.
(he could be she of course)
Well you have to expect it hehe, but it is definatelly not fair to push someone off the track! If he is on the outside you can only try to keep the inside line by exiting the corner at a smaller angle.
Sadly not alot of people do that.
In some situations you can try to keep the ouside line when exiting tho, depends on what the next corner is. Or you can even brake and turn hard to try taking the inside line when exiting the corner and pass him right back.In my humble opinion in both cases the guy behind was to blame. Not really in the second example, but definatelly in the first. He had the perfect line and did not make a mistake. It's a risky maneuver trying to pass someone when he's already taking the corner. He's not looking back at you anymore!
Sometimes I really think that the guy behind me thinks I forgot to turn the wheel for the corner.
Just let it go, it's not worth the risk!Here you can see what a clean race in LFS looks like. And also what happens when people (ehm...me) push too hard. Know that about half of them were demo players...
http://www.lfsforum.net/showth ... &highlight=pink+night
Good movie.
The battling between the black and orange car after 1:30 is a good example. To me it seems like many people here think that the black car could, and had the right to push the orange car off the track. In that situation I think the black car did the right ting. Would have been highly unfair if he had pushed the oponent off track.
Isn't it much more fun if you drive into and out of a corner side by side? Don't you feel sorry if your competitor wents off the track because he want to avoid contact with you, or gets pushed there by your car? Is it really so important that you finish in front of the other guy? Is it more fun to chat after race with your competitor about the good fights you had or trying to defend your move? Are you racing to have fun or to upgrade your finishing-statistics with better results?
I personaly am always trying to drive as clean as possible. So if I am inside the corner I don't really drive to the outside until I know there is enough room. I feel sorry even if a guy who gets overlapped by me trys to clear racingline by going off the track, or looses his car because he wants to make room for me as fast as possible. I want that everyone have as much fun as I have. No matter which position or race practise he has.
Have fun and be careful.
regards,
Land
I personaly am always trying to drive as clean as possible. So if I am inside the corner I don't really drive to the outside until I know there is enough room. I feel sorry even if a guy who gets overlapped by me trys to clear racingline by going off the track, or looses his car because he wants to make room for me as fast as possible. I want that everyone have as much fun as I have. No matter which position or race practise he has.
Have fun and be careful.
regards,
Land
This sums it up perfectly. You shouldn't make it easy for people to overtake, i'm not saying you should ram people of the track and stupid things like that, just positioning your car. Like the clip of shumacher and montoya, shumacher could've given the room on the outside, but we've seen countless times that shumacher is v.aggresive, (classic example, after eau rogue at spa in 2000, blocking hakkinen down the straight), so it would've been a better choice for montoya to conceed and try and get a better exit.
There are so many people on here that have a strange mentality to racing. Like when there's a thread about blue flags, some people say they actually pull off the track and stop to let people through, what's that all about. And there's a thread on first corner crashes, someone said "Yes back of the pack should keep at the back till the 1st corner is over then they can start racing cause it should save u from crashing." I mean come on, can you actually imagine watching a race in real life and seeing the back of the pack trundle into the first corner at 20mph holding position until they are through, and then starting to race...
No. Forcing someone off the track in any situation is poor sportsmanship.
If the defender is nice enough to let you along side on the way in to the bend, then how about giving them some room on the way out?
Want to be nasty? fine, how about the defender pushing you all the way to the inside of the track. Hey why don't they push you right on to the grass? I mean they are still in front right? so its ok. Or the defender goes to the inside forcing the attacker to the outside, now it should be ok for the defender to push the attacker off the track at the exit right?
They have the overlap so... 
If (when) we get marbles/ lack of grip off the racing line, expect passing to get a lot harder not easyer. If the defender knows they can not hold on to it around the outside, expect them to start blocking and fighting much harder for positon than they do now.
I like being nice but I can fight dirty if you like. :evil:
This thread is closed
Question about inside outside rules.
(320 posts, closed, started )
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