Yes, I am new

Now, I've played a few "sims" (or what claim to be sims) before, mostly game-like, such as the gran turismo series, enthusia, etc. I am new to LFS and I can't figure out how to work some cars.

In the hatchback (X-something?) or especially in the lower end turbo RWD cars, I seem to be fine when doing ok, but once I mess up, it's all over, and the game seems to lose touch with reality and go into "tires have no tread or grip" mode.

Why is that? I can soften up the rear suspension and control the massive amount of oversteer somewhat, but once I lose a wee bit of traction in a turn, say understeer, I just lose all control, either countersteer too fast or too slow no matter what I do, and end up pulling off 3 complete turn arounds while going above 40-50mph.

Can anyone give me some pointers to help me out? I know I'm used to the games where TCS ABS ACS (I think those are the correct letters..) etc are my best friend.

Quote from sicbeing :

Yes, I am new

Now, I've played a few "sims" (or what claim to be sims) before, mostly game-like, such as the gran turismo series, enthusia, etc. I am new to LFS and I can't figure out how to work some cars.

In the hatchback (X-something?) or especially in the lower end turbo RWD cars, I seem to be fine when doing ok, but once I mess up, it's all over, and the game seems to lose touch with reality and go into "tires have no tread or grip" mode.

Next time you spin out or loose control, hit the F9 key. This is your tire temperatures. You will see that they are probably quite red, ie, HOT! Especially in the race cars with slicks. Once they are hot, I have a heck of a time driving until they cool again, or I pit.

Quote :

...I just lose all control, either countersteer too fast or too slow no matter what I do, and end up pulling off 3 complete turn arounds while going above 40-50mph.

What wheel are you using? Just wondering, because my response based on you saying you countersteer too fast or too slow like your response is all out of wack.

Quote :

Can anyone give me some pointers to help me out? I know I'm used to the games where TCS ABS ACS (I think those are the correct letters..) etc are my best friend.

I see you are in the US, which I am also. If you ever see NightHawk|CRC in the servers, that's me. Give me a holler if you need some help out there and I'll surely try to help out all I can. Others are quite generous with their knowledge as well (not that I have much knowledge, hehe, but I do OK to help out ). Most will help you out if you ask. Just number one rule, don't ask for help or ask for setups in the middle of the race . Wait until the end if you can get it in before the restart.

Thanks.

I use a DFP.

It doesnt normally happen when ive been at the track for a while with hot hot tires, normally just happens from start to finish

Maybe I'll post a video of it happening.

First off, I'd suggest using Bob Smith's easy race setups, they can be found here http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=279
It can be tough to learn to catch slides. I don't really know what car you're talking about, but especially in race cars, like the FZ50 GTR and the XR GTR, slides can be very tough to catch because the slicks break away so quickly. With practice, you'll be able to slide the tires and tell when they're about to regain grip again, just keep working at it

Thanks for the Link, I'll check it out when I get home

If you want to learn RWD handling it's best to start with the XR GT (or Turbo)... both low on power and easy to throw around (well, once you're used to them of course).

I wouldn't have thought you'll be countersteering too fast with a DFP, although you may well be countersteering so far the car is going to fishtail. Once I've stopped a slide getting any bigger I hold the throttle and steering inputs and the rear usually brings itself back in after a couple of seconds. Once it begins to step back into line, it's also important to unwind the steering lock, else it will carry on going and you'll be sliding the other way.

I have much better luck catching slides with my DFP if I only use 270 degrees instead of the full 900.

Catching slides is no problem at any rotation on any wheel, especially in a car with such good steering range like the XRT. Practice and setup are the keywords. Of course with the right set and some practice the slides should occur less often, unless intentional.

Quote from MadArrow :

I have much better luck catching slides with my DFP if I only use 270 degrees instead of the full 900.

There's no reason to use 900* anyway since the most any car in LFS uses is 720. You might consider setting your wheel to 720*, then all cars will behave exactly as they should with no steering compensation.

trying lowering the FF setting first, I just got a new DFP and it's kickback is quite strong and seems to be a tad delayed, hence making small correction near the center difficult, I tend to fight the FF a bit too much when I have almost completely corrected the car and actually induced a second slide.

try to rely on the inertia of the car for correction as well, sometimes if you let the wheel somewhere neutral the car will start to correct itself, of course a setup would help in doing that. (it might be more difficult in LFS but it's not something reserved to alien drivers)

One thing that hasnt been said i dont think. Traction control, ABS and all the other assists are not available, so dont go looking for them.

To be honest, i used to spin the car loads when it stepped out, just dont be rough with the car, be smooth with the wheel and the back end wont snap, or it will be easier to catch, especially in the faster cars. Also, be smooth on the throttle, dont stamp on the accelerator, and that should help a bit.

I found the easiest way to get used to controlling oversteer was to make the car step out, and try to control it. Its annoying at first, but once you get used to it then it improves your car control loads. Try taking the XR GT Turbo out and chuck it around in the car park and around the tracks, to get used to controlling oversteer. Worked for me. Another car that is nice to do this in is the RB4 or the FXR due to the 4 wheel drive systems, which makes them a lot more contollable in a slide.

And my opinion too:

The first times I played LFS I was quite annoyed that the rear end steps out so easily. The uphill in BL1 after the last turn was horrible at first times. But as time went by I got more used to it. In LFS unlike in other racing games sliding doesn't make you spin. There is always way to get it back.

I have used to make some fast swings with my wheel to quickly gain the rear end back to control. But my main advice is that don't be afraid of that slide or drift! Take couple of laps and just let it swing its tail and then try t get it back as fast as possible.

Do not swing it by using hand brake or some other maneuvers

Plus it's actually one of the physics issues, the low speed grip and the lost grip regaining. Usually you can regain grip if it's not badly lost (on the rear in RWD) by playing with the throttle. Not with the current LFS tire model tho. The only way is to use countersteer.

Hopefully the next patch will address this issue too. (they said in the mail they'll address the physics)

Sicbeing, and anyone else who cares,

Here's the reason I asked what wheel. I'm using a Momo myself. Back when we first got S2 alpha, I was having a terrible time catching oversteer and slides in the RWD's. I had what felt like an occilation in the wheel and the FF seemed to be delayed, so I was correcting way too late and ending up spinning out the opposite direction. I had the forces so low, you barely could even feel them. But if I turned them up just a little bit, I had problems controlling the car. Back in RSC's forum for LFS, other's were describing problems that sounded similar to mine. BWX232 (I think that was his name) said he played with his wheel settings (DFP) and figured out that it felt best if you turned the "Spring Effect Strength" up past 100%. Well, I tried it and my occilation and delay problem completely disappeared. I now actually almost let go of the wheel if the backend starts to kick out. My car countersteers practically for me. If any of you like to play in the snow with RWD's, then you know what I mean. The front wheels like to steer in the direction of travel as the rear steps out. Now to this day, I still have my "Spring Effect Strength" set at 138% and the force feedback feels completely real to me.

You can take it however you want, it was a big discussion/arguement about how LFS doesn't use those settings due to being a canned effect to it doesn't affect LFS at all, blah, blah. All I know is it turned my RWD experience from unable to complete the first turn with any FF over to having a perfect, realistic feeling. You can read the 2 page thread from RSC here: http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=213725

In reality, all you have to do it take it slow, and slowly push. It will help you learn the limits of your car.

thanks for the that into Mrogers,and how about the damping effect setting?

Quote from JJ72 :

thanks for the that into Mrogers,and how about the damping effect setting?

I have damping effect at 0 like everyone else. I set my force to how I like it, the spring effect strength to correct the occilation and delay feel to the FF, then just leave damping effect as I said, 0. You will see alot of suggestions out there on the net about checking the "centering spring" but leaving it at 0. I think that was a bug in the software that you should have it checked, but the 4.60 version fixed that. I'm not sure of that though. It should be set at 0 though.

Well it's fair to say we all need time to pick things up, I've been playing S2 for about a month and a half, with wheel about a month.

What I have learned is not to counteract alot with my wheel, it's to counteract with the accelorator. The physics is good, I like it and once you realise how it works it' a real gain in races, you will find that in mid corner if you suddenly let off the accelorator the back end will step out, so imagine the back end comes out and you let off, causes the car to behave even more unstabily.

What I learned was when the back end went out, lower the accellorator to about 50% gently, this should stop the back wheels spinning if they are and give you rear end grip, but if you do this don't counteract the steering as much as you usually do, just turn mildly in the same direction as the slide untill it starts coming back, then when the car comes back you allign the steering back to where you need it.

Another thing, being smooth is a nessesity in this game, being all harsh on the pedals is a real no no for the cars, especcially the faster cars and LX's and MRT. Be smooth on accelorating through corners and out of them.

Last tip (If they can be considered as a tip) Left foot braking, say your in the XRT, you need to be braking while turning into a corner, the back end is allways going out, when braking apply a touch of accellorator to see if it helps you get into it without sliding about, subsequently for slides if you feel you can do it without messing up when the car catches you out.

Now I apologise if anyone else has said this, as I didn't have time to read all the long posts but feel I can at least try to help someone.

I hope this can be of help to someone, and hese ae just the way I tackle things, not the way it should be done or anything, fairly new to t he game but picking up plenty of things on the last fw months from driving and watching others.

Regards,

I must to admit, i'm not a calm person, my driving was better when i let the tyres warm until the optimal temperature…its just driving styles

I dont have centering spring or damper effect set to 0, and i still find it easy to catch slides and still feel the car "correct itself", it's just what feels comfortable.

FFB:
Overall 67
Spring 67
Damper 67

Centering 25

Rotation 900

I have tried other more "realistic" settings, but i have just got used to what it was set on, and just get on with driving

By the way, there is a way of making the FFB stronger by pressing a button combo on the wheel (like how you unlock the wheel to 900 degrees), so some people might get different results even with the same FFB settings in wingman

If you're using a DFP you should really set it to 900 degrees, so that you turn the wheel the same amount as they turn the wheel in game, because then you can be more precise.
I remember that it did take a while to get used to catching slides with the DFP, the hardest thing at first was just getting enough opposite lock quickly enough.Then you have to get used to when the car is gonna bite back, so that you can unwind the opposite lock in time, that took quite a while to get used to.But then it just clicked into place, and its just a normal reaction.


The easiest way to get better is to practice, the easiest excuse to give is that the FFB isnt right