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Even if you want to call it cheating, which I have my doubts according to the rule book its going to be classed as, you have to hand it to alonso he knew exactly how long to hold lewis, as people have said its very senna/ schumacher that if he did mean it, it was very very calculated

Shame for Lewis but he seemed to have the edge on Alonso to me so will see what tomorrow brings
it's cheating.... plain and simple....

it is no different than blocking on the circuit.... it's not smart.. because everyone can do it... just some racers don't choose t because they don't cheat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The FIA need to come down hard on Alonso, otherwise they will be seen to sanction this type of behaviour!
Quote from dawesdust_12 :If I were the FIA, I'd actually penalize Alonso because he was doing the same as blocking on the track (in qualifying), and should be penalized in the same matter.

That's exactly the way I see it Dustin
Quote from DarkTimes :That was fantastic! I love Alonso, he's not afriad to be a rebel.

I just watched my HDR recording of the Qualy. Amazing that Alonso and the team held up Hammy like that. These guys are at war with each other, even when they are so called "Team Mates". This is my first year of really paying attention to F1 races and I'm lovin it.

Kinda fooked up about Speed tough, was kinda cool to have a Yank driving. I hope he ends up with another team.
Alonso's ego has gotten the better of him again, recently in autosport they ran an article about how he wanted to be like Schumacher, number one in the team with full support for his title. However Mclaren never do that, for them the team calls the shots and the drivers just get in the car and do their job.

I think he deliberately did that because they wouldn't do what he wanted, so he hit them where he thought it would hurt by holding up their golden boy. Although his attitude is idiotic since they don't favour one driver, he already knows that, the only reason Hamilton is doing well is because he does what the team says and keeps his head during the races.

If I were Ron Dennis I would be getting rid of Alonso at the end of the year, although I expect he will retire anyway if he wins the championship.

(Apparently the team were screaming at Alonso down the radio to go, and Ron went nuts when he realised Hamilton wouldn't be able to do his lap)
if i were ron... i would fire him now..... the last thing he wants is more cheats in the team....

he won't of course, but I would!!!!! lol OK maybe I would think about it a bit more but man I would be pissed!

I am not sure after today's showing if he can really 'win' the championship without being labelled a cheaT!
Well I am pretty sure he grabbed his trainer so that he could translate some of the more elaborate swear words Ron will be using.
From Guardian.co.uk

'Rumours suggested Alonso was behind held by his personal physio Fabrizio Borra, who was counting off the seconds to the Spaniard with his fingers, so making sure Hamilton would not have enough time for one more lap. That is apparently under discussion within the team, whom Hamilton is fairly confident would not unduly harm his chances after what unfolded in Monaco.'
That would explain why RD was with him at the end of the Qualy

Alonso, meanwhile, brushed aside his own questions after claiming his second pole of the season, and 17th of his career. "In the first and second stops, normally we have someone timing the gaps," said the reigning double world champion. "The first time they told me to go, but I had the blanket caught in the tyres, so I lost some time there. The second time we didn't lose anything. You can ask the team what happened. I am always monitoring the pit stops, the radio. They do the calculations, they find the gaps and I just drive the car. I'm always ready to go."

Nothing new
Stewards investigating Alonso's hold-up

The Hungarian Grand Prix stewards are reviewing the incident involving Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton during Saturday's qualifying.

Alonso took a controversial pole position from teammate Hamilton after the rookie was unable to complete his final flying lap due to the Spaniard delaying his exit from the pitlane.

The two-time champion was waved to get going by his mechanics, but he stood still for some 10 seconds while Hamilton waited behind him. The delay meant Hamilton was unable to complete his final run in time.

After qualifying, the FIA decided to investigate the incident, and team boss Ron Dennis was called by the stewards.

The stewards also asked to review the radio communications related to that pitstop.


Alonso: Hamilton triggered qualifying row


World champion Fernando Alonso has said McLaren teammate Lewis Hamilton triggered the incident the duo were involved in during qualifying for the Hungarian Grand Prix.

Alonso got pole position after controversially making his teammate wait in the pitlane for some ten seconds before he got his car moving.

The delay meant Hamilton was unable to complete his final flying lap in time, while Alonso jumped to the top of the times to secure pole from the Briton.

Team boss Ron Dennis was visibly angry after qualifying and was seen on television throwing his headphones when Hamilton failed to reach the start/finish line in time to complete his lap.

Alonso told reporters after qualifying that Hamilton had not respected orders from the team to allow the Spaniard through earlier in the session in order to allow him to have an extra flying lap.

"They told Hamilton what to do and he didn't listen," Alonso was quoted as saying by EFE news agency.

"That was the only problem the team had. Ron's anger was because he (Hamilton) didn't accept an order that the team repeated several times over the first lap.

"Therefore, the team did all they had to do, and tried to give me that extra lap, but for those reasons it wasn't possible.

"I've been asked about Ron throwing his headphones, about how he went after Fabrizio (Alonso's physio), or whatever. I have nothing against him. I was going to have an extra lap of fuel, and I didn't have it, but in the end I got pole."
Alonso Made Scapegoat for McLaren’s Failed Orchestration of the Front RowBy Mike Sulka (source)

Did McLaren screw up?

Or was it an incredibly sophisticated and deliberate attempt by Alonso to block a faster teammate from defending his provisional Pole position ?
Either way, put aside the Ferrari vs. McLaren spy scandal shenanigans, and let’s return to the Alonso vs. Hamilton intra-team fight for the right to win the Formula One World Championship.
Over the last two weeks, Ron Dennis’ favored son Lewis Hamilton has seen his grip on the F1 driver’s title slip to a mere two points over Alonso. In Q3 of qualifying, McLaren seemed intent on putting Hamilton on Pole by having Alonso qualify on the ‘prime’ – soft – tire while Hamilton was turning his hot laps on the ‘option’ – super soft – tire with nearly three tenths in hand.
It should have been an easy Pole for Hamilton, but it didn’t happen.
Instead, two-time Formula One Driver Champion Fernando Alonso took his 17th career Formula One Pole during qualifying for the Hungarian Grand Prix at the Hungaroring.

Immediately following the demise of the team’s planned orchestration of the front row, Ron Dennis slammed his headphones down, and stormed off to Parc Ferme to confront his Spanish driver. When challenged, Alonso refused to listen, and walked away from his McLaren Boss who continued to sputter at him.
But Dennis’ scapegoat wasn’t the real problem today. The facts don’t back him up.
Though o*nlookers were quick to trash Alonso, and ridicule him for deliberately holding up Hamilton…. The facts don’t back them up.
One has to look at the specific timelines to declare guilt. Much as o*ne has to hear all the evidence in a spy scandal case, rather than force an important decision with something less than all the important facts.
As mentioned above, it was clear that McLaren had chosen Hamilton to lead from Pole based o*n the two different strategies. It is also logical that Alonso was o*n a heavier fuel load than Hamilton since he is o*n the harder tire.
The truth is that Alonso was not going to be given a chance to start the Hungarian Grand Prix from Pole.
It can also be said that McLaren cost Alonso a lap of fuel. Was that intentional ? Was that what the team wanted to insure a Hamilton victory for tomorrow’s race ?
Let’s consider these questions while we look at the facts.
On Alonso’s second to last pitstop in the Q3 qualifying session, McLaren held Alonso for a full 47 seconds (From 7:40 to 6:53). Apparently to allow for traffic to clear, meanwhile Hamilton was allowed to burn fuel during the time that the Spaniard sat idle.
The team then bungled his release when a tire warmer became stuck o*n the suspension. The mistake cost Alonso another full eight seconds.
Alonso completed his out lap, his hot lap and then returned to the pits. The car was jacked up, and Alonso’s tread was replaced for his final run at Pole. At the 2:08 mark, Alonso was dropped off the jacks and ready to return to the track. But the team held him again…
This time for another 19 critical seconds…
Again apparently for clear track.
At the 1:51 mark, Hamilton arrived in full view behind Alonso.
At the 1:47 mark, the McLaren mechanic lifts the lolli-pop. Usually a sign that the team wants the driver to leave the pit stall.
What isn’t clear is if Alonso is actually released by the team. Unlike the previous stop, the mechanic in charge of releasing him can’t be seen counting down the release.
During this crucial nine seconds, some speculate that Alonso deliberately held his teammate to cost him Hamilton his run at Pole.
At the 1:38 second mark, Alonso drives away and finds clear track.
At the 1:26 second mark, Hamilton’s service is complete, and he is away for his doomed final lap.
But here is the key point to this presentation of the facts. And Ron Dennis should note this before he scolds his star driver because his favorite son isn’t o*n Pole.
Alonso began his lap with just three seconds left in the qualifying session. It took him 1:35 to get around the track from the time he left his pit stall.
Even if Alonso had gotten away when the loli-pop went up, Hamilton would have had just 1:35 to get around the track.
While the nine seconds was crucial… It was the McLaren team who kept Alonso for the extra 19 seconds before hand to create the situation. It was the McLaren team who kept Alonso a full 47 seconds the previous pitstop and allowed their drivers to get so close to each other.

The truth is o*ne of the following:
McLaren were too smart by half
Or Alonso is the smartest driver in the world, and had this all calculated out in the cockpit of his car.
Alonso said of the incident, "I leave the pits when I'm told to."
And that makes the most sense.
If Ron Dennis is angry and upset, he o*nly has his own team to whine at for wasting the precious seconds that left Hamilton second. If Ron Dennis is angry and upset, it clearly wasn’t his driver who created the situation.
If Ron Dennis is angry and upset that McLaren’s intended orchestration of the front row didn’t happen as planned, he o*nly has o*ne place to point the finger…
At his team. Not his driver.
Even so, the o*ne who ought to be furious is Fernando Alonso.
While Alonso will start from Pole o*n a track where it is extremely difficult to make a pass, the team cost him a full lap of fuel by forcing him to sit idle in his pit stall.
They wasted 55 seconds o*n the second to last stop, plus 19 seconds o*n his final stop, plus the nine questionable seconds. That works out to 1:23 or o*ne full lap.
Tomorrow, that lost lap could be very costly for Alonso. That is..
If McLaren allows him to win. Because if he does, he’ll overtake the team’s favored o*ne in the Formula o*ne points standings.
Will Ron Dennis allow that to happen ?
Quote : "Ron's anger was because he (Hamilton) didn't accept an order that the team repeated several times over the first lap."

"Therefore, the team did all they had to do, and tried to give me that extra lap, but for those reasons it wasn't possible."

I can only see him digging himself in a deeper hole with this statement!?

Is he just throwing his toys out the pram because he was not let through by Hamilton during the fuel burn stages? Perhaps another reason to think Alonso believes he should be treated as number one over his team-mate?

From what I saw of the incident it was clear to me Hamilton was held up by Alonso after the order was given (frantically!) for him to go. I don't see how this can be seen in any other way regardless of earlier incidents (which were in no way detrimental to the qualifying outcome.

However I think Alonso should be punished by the team, not by the FIA (i.e. held back at pit stop perhaps, not (quali) places or points taken away)
Quote from jamvib :
McLaren seemed intent on putting Hamilton on Pole by having Alonso qualify on the ‘prime’ – soft – tire while Hamilton was turning his hot laps on the ‘option’ – super soft – tire

In the PC Alonso said that the soft tyre was his personal choice did he not, and Hamilton said he preferred the supers?
Alonso said the hard tyre was better for him, and Hamilton said he liked the softer tyre. Two very different styles of driving need different setups, the drivers choose what tyres they want to run on.

That Mike Sulka guy clearly doesn't know what he is talking about, the whole reason Alonso isnt happy is because Mclaren don't favour one driver. Alonso wanted to be the number one, everyone supporting him and letting him make all the choices, but Mclaren have never worked that way. Hamilton is probably more popular but thats only because he does what he is told, if he threw his toys out of the pram anytime the team told him to do something he didn't like, he wouldn't be popular.
#64 - J.B.
Ron says Hamilton disobeyed orders, making the pit stops go out of sync, and Alonso was being counted down by his engineer.

True or not? If the FIA check the team radio there should be a definitive answer to this for us all by tomorrow at the latest. Then we can stop jumping to conclusions and making up BS here...
Quote from J.B. :Ron says Hamilton disobeyed orders, making the pit stops go out of sync, and Alonso was being counted down by his engineer.

True or not? If the FIA check the team radio there should be a definitive answer to this for us all by tomorrow at the latest. Then we can stop jumping to conclusions and making up BS here...

Even if that were true, McLaren wouldn't effectively penalise Hamilton in such a foolish way, and they'd know what was going to happen well enough in advance to do something about it. Raikkonen could be in second spot on the grid for tomorrow, McLaren wouldn't be best pleased then.

I think it was a cheap little trick, but there are worse things a driver could do to beat a competitor.
Oh, how the tables have turned I must admit I had my suspicions that Alonso had blocked Hamilton but I thought I should wait for a statement from McLaren.

Most people here, it seems, went off on one before they knew the facts. Several times I've seen people write that the mechanics were frantically waving at Alonso to leave the pits. I never saw any of that. If you take Hamilton out of the equation, Alonso's release from his final stop was timed to perfection. He had exactly the right length of time needed to start his next flying lap.

It seems that McLaren decided to stick with the original plan and let Lewis suffer from his blatant disobedience of team orders on the first lap of the session.

Of course, I don't expect that any of the Alonso abusers/Hamilton lovers will retract their statements. This announcement from McLaren is probably part of some big cover-up, etc...
... shouldn't disobeying team-orders be handled in a professional and orderly manner outside of qualifying? I can't see how a professional sports team would go like: "LOL YOU DISOBEY NOW WE HOLD YOU UP!!!!11"
Quote from Jertje :... shouldn't disobeying team-orders be handled in a professional and orderly manner outside of qualifying? I can't see how a professional sports team would go like: "LOL YOU DISOBEY NOW WE HOLD YOU UP!!!!11"

In my company, if I do what I want, disobeying work plans, previous meetings,etc... They will manage the situation in a professional way: a promotion at best to gardener assistant...

They stick to the original plan to minimise the improvisation, that is what professional people do. Mostly because they knew Ferrari and BMW were still behind both McLaren drivers.
tbh i'd take it out of his wages. However i never saw the begining of Q3 only the last 5 mins.
Whel i say dont preduct just watch the race(caus if you ask me its going to Ferrari Mc-laren,BMW sauber al the way)
I don't think Ron's telling the whole truth there. If it was all Hamilton's fault then why was Ron so angry about it, and why did he grab Alonso's trainer by the scruff of the neck and march him up to parc ferme to have it out with him and Alonso?

I think Ron's just trying to be diplomatic about it and cool off the tension within his own team.
At the beginning, I didn't see Alonso and Hamilton fighting, but I did see Kimi trying to pass Alonso. Had Hamilton disappeared into the distance by this point? If so, what advatage would either of them get by Hamilton letting Alonso by? None, as far as I can tell.

But Alonso sitting in the pitlane gives him a massive advantage over Hamilton.

If Alonso being held (or waiting on his own) was 'punishment' for Hamilton being naturally quicker than Alonso, then the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

I think Alonso should be made to drive in DTM or NASCAR or something (where the past-it drivers generally go, with exceptions like TK).
"Hungarian Grand Prix stewards have sent Fernando Alonso back to sixth on the grid after investigating the pit lane incident involving the two McLaren drivers during Saturday's qualifying session.

Alonso controversially seized pole position from team-mate Lewis Hamilton after holding up the British driver in the McLaren pit stall for around 10 seconds.

The delay cost Hamilton the chance to respond when Alonso beat his time on his final run, since by the time he reached the start/finish line the chequered flag had fallen on the session.

The stewards summoned McLaren boss Ron Dennis, team manager Dave Ryan and both drivers, and reviewed TV footage and team radio communications.

After hours of deliberation, they stripped Alonso of pole and demoted him to sixth on the grid.

An official FIA statement explaining the decision is expected shortly."


http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40283


[edit]
"The FIA also decided that McLaren Mercedes will not earn any points from the race for the constructers’ world championship."

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/h ... detail/070805001402.shtml
He is not going to be happy about that.
#75 - DeKo
I dont get the no constructors points. He only held up his own teammate, nobody else, so really what right have they got of stripping them of points?

F1 Hungarian GP 2007 *spoilers*
(193 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG