Quote from ajp71 :

Racing slicks are somewhat less forgiving than road tires but the notion that it is impossible to hold a slide with them is silly, look at Tristan's early Reynard videos for evidence that it is perfectly possible to hold slides in a single seater,

But wasn't Tristan originally running that car on 20-year-old slicks?

Quote from Goop :

Based on the footage I've seen, it seems that, the trade-off for a stickier tyre is a more sudden and dramatic loss of grip when it does 'let go'.

that is simply and utterly wrong ... there is no data to back this up (we had curves from the formula student tyres here a while ago and there was no dramatic loss in any way) and there is nothing in the physics of a tyre to back this up theoretically in any way

what youre seeing is a loss in downforce not in tyre grip

Typical :rolleyes: Just when I was starting to enjoy this thread, along comes someone who's actually done tests, made pretty pie-charts, and er... examined molecular structures, composites... um....

OK, fair enough talking out of my arse

Quote from JTbo :

I did decided to test annoying wing car that I never drive as I saw someone liking it a lot when driving one with motion simulator.

Can't really tell why, but it slides quite often if I touch loud pedal, it is like it would have minor acceleration and then insane slide acceleration, but hardly nothing between those two.

Also I found it incredible easy to catch in most situations (using 550 degrees with dfp).

Should it be like that or should set be adjust so that it does not do such things?

I had a test drive, and that setup is horrible. It bit me on lap 5 completely. However, my tips on driving the FO8 would be to just have confidence in the car, try sliding it on purpose to get a feel for it. I tend to mash the throttle and deal with the back end through steering inputs. However with this setup you need to have some throttle control too. Another tip would be to try and take smoother lines and maintain your speed throughout the corner.

But.. first thing would be to look on inferno for a better set.

P.S. I am by no means a very good driver, I'm just trying to help.

Quote from DaveWS :

my tips on driving the FO8 would be to just have confidence in the car, try sliding it on purpose to get a feel for it. I tend to mash the throttle and deal with the back end through steering inputs.

I remember in the first round of the GP Masters series at Kyalami, watching onboard footage from Derek Warwick's car he was doing the same thing. He didn't seem to mind what tyres were on his car.

Quote from JTbo :

@wark, I have stopped racing from victory or from WR very long time ago, I let those to nolifes or those that just are quick, however I doubt that amount of practise I can get there is no way to get really quick times, besides I have a job already, I drive to have some fun instead

I was kidding. I gave up myself after getting second place for the XRG at BL2 back in 2002 (right before the hotlaps were wiped for the first time).

God i absolutely hated the F08 but i did an oline race with it 2 days ago and loved it then used it again yesterday becuase i couldnt go online couldnt get on the forums either.

I even made a video with it i liked it so much its called "carving through traffic". It only bites when you put the power down too early or when you touch grass with your back wheels and its perfect through high speed corners

Quote from Shotglass :

that is simply and utterly wrong ... there is no data to back this up (we had curves from the formula student tyres here a while ago and there was no dramatic loss in any way) and there is nothing in the physics of a tyre to back this up theoretically in any way

what youre seeing is a loss in downforce not in tyre grip

I think there's a bit of both going on. You'll certainly drop downforce if you get the car sideways (and LFS does model this, I checked it out a while ago), but I recall reading a book I bought a while ago about racecar setup which I have since lost so I can't recall the author or title which said that peak tractive effort for a conventional road tyre is at ~10% slip while slicks are more like 5% for peak tractive effort and the curve drops away more sharply.

Quote from Resound :

I think there's a bit of both going on. You'll certainly drop downforce if you get the car sideways (and LFS does model this, I checked it out a while ago), but I recall reading a book I bought a while ago about racecar setup which I have since lost so I can't recall the author or title which said that peak tractive effort for a conventional road tyre is at ~10% slip while slicks are more like 5% for peak tractive effort and the curve drops away more sharply.

But it does not loose something like 50% from grip still, amount of effect is quite little by tires, however many other things are causing more loss of grip than tires itself.

Also if we say 10% slip is a peak, what amount of downforce is lost if car rear tires are slipping 10%? or 5%? that is so small change to normal conditions that we are in quite different area already when downforce is seriously affected.

Quote from Resound :

I think there's a bit of both going on. You'll certainly drop downforce if you get the car sideways (and LFS does model this, I checked it out a while ago), but I recall reading a book I bought a while ago about racecar setup which I have since lost so I can't recall the author or title which said that peak tractive effort for a conventional road tyre is at ~10% slip while slicks are more like 5% for peak tractive effort and the curve drops away more sharply.

I'm not sure if I knew that LFS modified downforce with yaw, that's interesting. Do you have any data handy to show the relationship?

About the tires; are you sure he wasn't talking about longitudinal force? Ususally when I see tractive effort and slip ratio mentioned, it's a longitudinal context (as opposed to slip angle for lateral measurements...)

Quote from JTbo :

I did decided to test annoying wing car that I never drive as I saw someone liking it a lot when driving one with motion simulator.

Can't really tell why, but it slides quite often if I touch loud pedal, it is like it would have minor acceleration and then insane slide acceleration, but hardly nothing between those two.

Also I found it incredible easy to catch in most situations (using 550 degrees with dfp).

Should it be like that or should set be adjust so that it does not do such things?

Hello, I watched your video and like Clownpaint said, that set looks horrible. The rear isn't properly accepting the weight and the front AR is too different from rear, making it a lot of work to get it back in line. I watched the video you made from competitor's product and the difference is that set is damped much more, is much more neutral balanced, and is on a track with less severe corners / less bumpy.

It is true what you say, WR sets are not the best for fun driving. But you may like the FO8 set for kyoto gp long rev that is on setupfield ( I attached it to post ) . If you try some laps at kyoto gp or maybe even national, you will have an experience much more like your competitor video.

But there is more too, you admit you don't drive FO8 much. From my experience I can see your lines are more like XR Turbo lines, where you approach corner aimed a bit wide and load weight onto the setup before corner. For FO8, start wide and turn in only gradually.

I think the sudden losses of grip you see are the result of your pre-corner weight setup that is coming back through the springs which are maybe under-damped in race_s (or at least not tuned enough)

Long story short, from a fan of the FO8, if you find the right set you will agree you can throw the car around and still feel comfy. I have a stable setup sent to me by senna that I will attach. I guarantee you will feel like the car is going where you want.

I also attached ky3r setup, which is super fast but when it decides to step out at the rear, you get really busy

I'll just throw in a set I made for KY nat. It requires quite a different driving style to most LFS setups as I try to use more realistic brake balance and diff settings. This means it will be much more responsive under turn in and trail braking and on the throttle it's quite catchable.

For me it feels very nice but I don't know how fast it would ultimately be the hands of an alien.

Demo racer in ky nat with a fo8 ? oh interesting

Anyways I whenever I drive the fo8 I just let it slide a few corners untill I get a feel of the setup and how I can prevent myself from completly spinning. Once I've done that I just push it to the limit and just do my best to keep it on track. For me it's the easiest way

Some will never learn...

Quote from Rikje :

Demo racer in ky nat with a fo8 ? oh interesting

Just FYI, J.B. is S2 licensed, he just posts under a different account.

I wish I could do that, to masquerade the fact that I am slowly (meaning very rapidly) approaching the first page of the sadness ratings.

EDIT: nevermind, some people must have deleted some posts, becuase I'm now 28th.

You would be seriously surprised how much you can hit the the accellorator full and fast and still manage not to slide out.. just need practice and experience..

Quote from PRMLSCRM :

2.Longitudinal slipangle on all cars at low speeds needs to produce longitudinal grip at low speeds.

Adjust these two vectors in lfs rubber and it's basically perfect and done (adjustment [1] should be stronger than adjustment [2] that should be subtle).

Agree on point #1 for the most part.

Could you explain your point #2 more clearly, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying (if you're saying what I think you're saying, I might agree but I'm not sure). It's a slip ratio on that axis BTW, the angle doesn't change.