Hi all! something which I've been thinking about for a long time is that, do tribute skins show respect or do they ridicule the importance of a person?. I have, in the past, raced in a league in which my cousin's son had died the same day of the race where I drove a black car to show respect. After doing the race, I felt that perhaps attempting to show respect only showed disrespect to others. Reason why I think it shows disrespect because I try and look at it from afar. Here I am, playing a sim, in real world (or real life if you prefer) terms, which hardly has any importance so am I showing disrespect to the person I'm attempting to show respect to by using a tribute skin in a sim?

Apart from sim racing, I'm also starting to doubt it being used in real racing as well. Its like combining one of the most important events in a person's life comparing to how much of little importance competition is.

What do you think?

It's the thought that counts

forfeiting the race would show respect in my opinion

Think about it from the person you are respecting's point of view (even if that seems a bit existential...)

If you, er... died or whatever, and subsequently found out (by whatever means...) that someone was driving a black car in a racing sim out of respect for you would you be pleased or offended?


I think I'd be quite honoured tbh.

How many people would see you wearing a black tie or black armband? It's not the fact that the 'advert' doesnt reach a million people that is important, it's the fact that you mourn the loss.

You shouldn't stop doing things that otherwise you would do either, if you can keep enough spirit high to carry on, as that would mean that persons loss is troubling your life and that is probably the last thing they'd want in most cases.

While I think it to be a futile gesture, I don't think it to disrespectful (as long as it's tasteful).

No doubt it is a sign of your respect.

As for forfeiting the race, I would try to ask what the person would want you to do.

The weekend after 9/11 the F1 circuit was at Indy. There was talk of canceling the event, but everyone knew you have to keep moving forward. Stopping your life, being scared, was not an option. Many teams showed there respects, Ferrari ran a black nosecone.

I'm in 2 minds about this. On the one hand it's a nice gesture, but where do you draw the line between tasteful and tasteless? Personally, I don't give a flying leap what people think me. If I died tomorrow, I'd want a tasteful tribute.

But where does tasteful become tasteless? I would say that when it becomes (and I hate this word) gaudy and showy. That's when I'd object personally. But is it up to other people to object or up to the person who is running the tribute to think 'hang on, this isn't right'?

@srdsprinter: It was Monza that Ferarri ran the black nosecone. Also several other series ran tributes, CART ran different liverys at the Lausitz and Rockingham races IIRC

@lep: AFAIK, tributes are still widely used in motorsports. Look at the Brock one for example. How many fans turned out to that one? (ok, I know he was an ausse LEGEND)

Quote from Leprekaun :

Hi all! something which I've been thinking about for a long time is that, do tribute skins show respect or do they ridicule the importance of a person?. I have, in the past, raced in a league in which my cousin's son had died the same day of the race where I drove a black car to show respect. After doing the race, I felt that perhaps attempting to show respect only showed disrespect to others. Reason why I think it shows disrespect because I try and look at it from afar. Here I am, playing a sim, in real world (or real life if you prefer) terms, which hardly has any importance so am I showing disrespect to the person I'm attempting to show respect to by using a tribute skin in a sim?

Apart from sim racing, I'm also starting to doubt it being used in real racing as well. Its like combining one of the most important events in a person's life comparing to how much of little importance competition is.

What do you think?

My team has had unfortunatly a number of couple of "sad days" this year - and at every Grand Prix, we show are respect and thoughts to the individual/individuals who have been lost.

There is no disrespect in any shape or sense. A family member found it quite touching. I would urge anyone to show respect in this manner if they feel it is so.

Others opinions may differ, based on religion or similar.

We honour, and celebrate our lost or fallen comrades by wearing our black skins which we create a different skin for the person, and only ever wear it for that person.

We are actually discussing this on TS as I type - There is no issues with this in our team.

To be honest I think it depends on the situation in which the skin comes into play. My g/f's mum died last week and the entire DBP and ATC team wore a special skin for the occasion. It was a very stunning moment to see them all on the starting grid and considering I hadn't spoken to some of the DBP team before they all showed a hugh mark of respect. I don't think there's anything wrong with people showing respect in anyway they see fit whether it be real life or virtual.

I have to agree with the general consensus. I would be glad to see that someone was thinking about me. Although, unlike most people, I'd appreciate it all the more if it made fun of the way I died, if there was a funny side.
You know, jokes like "what's the last thing to go through a fly's mind when it hits a windscreen?" - if something like that could be applied to me I'd be wetting myself with laughter from the other side.

Like "Should've looked both ways, shouldn't ya?" written along the side skirts, or "We said 'duck'" on the spoiler. But then I do have a bit of a twisted sense of humour sometimes

If done tastefully and not over the top it can be a very fitting tribute. There was a racer in F4 who tragically died at Cadwell Park (not through a racing accident). At the next meeting at Snett, which was his home circuit, several cars had black nosecones and in practice his team mate and the driver of one of his previous cars followed each other round it was a fitting tribute to him. Then in the race several cars got smashed up, amazingly everybody just smiled. It really was a funny meeting, definitely not one I'm going to forget and a real lasting tribute

No no, I'm against all that "We said "duck"" stuff and all that. I know this may seem like an indirect insult to you Daj but I don't respect those who do that kind of thing. Thats not what I meant by showing disrespect. I mean, I'm still pondering whether that time I drove with a black car, all black, nothing put on it (perhaps the original league skin appeared slightly but you'd have to stare at the car for a while to see the detail) showed disrespect or showed respect. I understand the side of it where it shows that you're thinking of them but like I said, theres the other side where sim racing is ridiculous compared to some of the great events that can happen in real life.

@Widdow: it has nothing to do with religion . Its just my personal thoughts on the matter

One of my favorite tributes (in RL) I've seen is the "missing man" formation. When a racer or someone close to a given racing series dies, the formation and parade laps before the start are done with the pole position open.

Of course LFS doesn't have formation laps, so I guess that's out.

i think tribute skins can never do that person justise , to whom its mad e for.... but thats my opinion

I wouldn't be offended if everybody used skins with Kev-related themes. In fact let me state that I actively encourage it, especially while I am still alive.

Quote from Leprekaun :

I understand the side of it where it shows that you're thinking of them but like I said, theres the other side where sim racing is ridiculous compared to some of the great events that can happen in real life.

Football matches, rock concerts, F1 races, in fact most things are ridiculous compared to the great events in 'real life'. If your intent was to show respect, and you believe the intended recipient would have appreciated it, then showing respect is what you did.

I know a lot of people that have lost some very close friends, and sometimes even make some kind of tribute stickers/labels to put on their car somewhere. One guy I knew only too little, a lot of his friends made such a label to put on the back of their car, showing his birth-death date below his name.

Personally I thought it was nice, because it was tragic how he died, and many people all over this area supported the cause. I still see some of the cars with the sticker on it, but after a while it gets to be kind of irritating in a way that the person has to show their grief for something that happened 5 years ago now. You know, the kind of things that you WANT to forget about, but cant because other just wont let go.

Seeing that a skin could be for someone you know, you can do whatever you want in my opinion. There are many other kinds of tributes that fall short of being disrespectful, like ones for famous figures/legends (eg Peter Brock). After years and years though, things like this will be a passing memory really... so, no need to keep using such a skin for ever and ever

A really nice kid in my class at school died of cancer in the 6th form, and for as long as I can remember, everyone in the class who ever drove past his house, pipped their horn as they went by. I'm 40 years old now and I have no idea if his parents are still alive or if they live there any more, but I visited my sister the other week, drove past his old house and pipped my horn. Some things you just do for your own reasons, and hope it matters to someone else too.

Your showing your respect by getting on with your life and doing something you enjoy, the purpose of running a tribute is to show you still remember the event/person and that even when your concentrating on a race your still thinking of them. It also serves to remind people of how trivial and insignificant sim racing and real life motorsport is in comparison, something that people need to be reminded of.

I myself wouldn't have had the strength of character to enter that event, I remember voting you as driver of the day just for being able to take part, let alone getting a decent finish.

Quote from Leprekaun :

@Widdow: it has nothing to do with religion .

It may have tho Lep. Got to keep an open mind buddy . Certain people deal with death in different ways, people deal with death in different ways dependant on their beleifs and values.

I poster in this thread feels it ok to "lighten" the mood in grieving by "humourising" the event. There is nothing wrong with that. Ok in the wrong context, it could be misconstrued as "sick", but hey - He knew the guy, theres no one else better to know how to deal with grief other than the person dealing with it.

Its not how they died in this discussion that matters, its the fact they have gone, with no chance of ever saying those things that needed saying, or saying sorry. The one thing you rarely get to say to any one who has died is good bye - and thats the most painfull thing. Even if you do, it still hurts. Its a bloody painfull, hear breaking time, to know you can never wakr to see them again, or discuss the day, things that have happened.

Rmembering the person and paying tribute, is what you were asking, and many will base the way they do that on religious beliefs and teachings - its single minded to say they wont. Funerals in 90% of occasions are a religious act/process.

Regardless....

This is one morbid thread. Cant we pick it up a bit, make it a happy occasion

respect imo is only respect if the person paying it feels like it is the right thing to do. in one of the gp's 95% of the grid wore a memorial skin (only made for that race) for my brother as a sign of respect. people who i have never talked to also wore the skin. i thought it was a great jesture and when i showed my mother, she loved it. below, you'll see the skin atc wore for penny (atc rogues mother in law). i thought it was a very fitting skin. all logo's were removed and replaced with pennys name
http://www.atcteam.org/forum/a ... ntid=176&d=1187578296

Can't see it Dadge.

Quote from MyBoss :

Can't see it Dadge.

...

if it is your intention to respect them, then it is respect. doesn't matter how inconsequential a game is, you are doing something in reverence to the departed. nothin wrong with that.