Which do you prefer? For me it's definatly the PWRC. Just started watching rally through torrents on racing-underground, and the PWRC is alot more interesting to watch. The cars are still stick instead of paddle and the racing seems to be closer. The only thing I don't like is that it seems to be a Suby and Mitsubishi only race. I watched the New Zealand event and the top ten were either Suby or Mitsubishi.

Quote from Sudo :

"The only thing I don't like is that it seems to be a Suby and Mitsubishi only race. I watched the New Zealand event and the top ten were either Suby or Mitsubishi."

That's how it's supposed to be! Mitsubishi and Subaru are the only manufacturers that still make production cars that can be prepared for rally use with relative ease and cost effectiveness. The currently domineering European WRC cars are just non-representations of their manufacturers.

Power to those produce cars easily adaptable for racing. Race what you build, not build to race. The fact that you can easily turn your Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution XI MR to a serious PWRC contender with less than millionaire level funding proves it. Do the same to a production Citroen/Toyota Corolla/Peugeot 307 and nothing will be left stock, not even the basic drivetrain layout or even the engine block.

Quote from Jamexing :

Race what you build, not build to race.

We would've never seen a few of the nuttier "homologation specials" with that attitude.

Homologation Specials are nice for sure...

But give me an attainable ~$30,000 new 300+hp Evo or Scooby(just not the new one, yuck!) any day!

Ofcourse wrc is way more fun to watch ;P pwrc is the same but slower and not so big slides.

PWRC (the former group N) is still susceptible to exotic versions if the manufacturers thought there was money to be had. They, under current regs, only need to make 2500 from a 25000+ unit production model to qualify.

Let's say Peugeot made 2500 insanely equipped £30,000+ 207's then they could enter - the only reason they don't is that the WRC is where the publicity currently is and they wouldn't recover close to the costs.
If more people (I mean those people that think a car that has a body-shape vaguely the same as won the WRC means it's a pedigree rally car) took more interest in PWRC then the mass-market companies may jump in with limited-run cars.

As group N has been around for years without this happening I think it's safe to assume only Subaru/Mitsubishi have any real interest in producing a road-going rally-capable car and that the mass-market companies believe the people watching it will remain a minority vs. the WRC.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Homologation Specials are nice for sure...

But give me an attainable ~$30,000 new 300+hp Evo or Scooby(just not the new one, yuck!) any day!

The WRX STI costs €52000 here, or $73200. You guys get everything for a low price

isnt group n more of a stepping stone on the way from f2 to wrc than a sport with noteworthy publicity ?

I don't care what class they drive as long as it's pressented with only onbards in good angle.
I might stand watching historic classes from stationary cameras.

Quote from Jamexing :

Power to those produce cars easily adaptable for racing.

Sorry that post shows you don't really have a clue what your talking about. The Group N cars have no real relation apart from the engine and some of the drivetrain to the production cars. Any 4WD road car could equally easily be converted for similar costs. What makes the Subaru/Mitsubishi different are that they have had factory backing meaning there is a wide range of racing components made especially for them.

Quote from heson :

I don't care what class they drive as long as it's pressented with only onbards in good angle.
I might stand watching historic classes from stationary cameras.

FIA thinks good onboard view is the one where 70% of the picture is covered with the driver's seat.

The one thing I save to say looks great in WRC is the stationary paddle shifters. I would love to make some for my DFP to make it easier to play RBR, because I have the shifter as the handbrake and have to play on auto transmission. It's way to hard to shift using those tiny little paddles when the wheel is spinning all over the place.

Quote from deggis :

FIA thinks good onboard view is the one where 70% of the picture is covered with the driver's seat.

why do you blame FIA of this? I seriously doubt its FIA who decides where the onboard cameras will be mounted. It is upto wrctv guys. And I believe they have a good reason for this.

Quote from Don :

why do you blame FIA of this? I seriously doubt its FIA who decides where the onboard cameras will be mounted. It is upto wrctv guys. And I believe they have a good reason for this.

Well yes maybe but it has also something to do with the Sainz crash few years back. So it comes to back FIA being a pussy again. TV rights are owned by ISC and that most likely is under FIA's supervision. No idea what kind of subcontractors they have.

No matter who is responsible for the camera placement but an onboard camera where you can't see shit (or the main point, see the driver in work) is still useless.

Bad, usually looks like this:



Good:



Almost good and rarely used:

Ever thought it depends on the individual car? The cameras are mounted on the rollcage and it may not be possible to get any better view out of the impreza (or other cars)

It doesn't seem like that. Grönholm have had often (3rd pic) different placement than Hirvonen in a same rally.

And duct tape is an old invention...

Quote from heson :

I don't care what class they drive as long as it's pressented with only onbards in good angle.

Yes I was actually having a discussion about this the other day, why WRC has become boring to watch over the last few years when the cars in reality are exactly the same as they were ten years ago and we came to the conclusion that there weren't as many good drivers and the cameras were mounted in dull positions. I'd say bring on bumper cam anyday, any decently positioned camera should be a head rush (just watch somebody else play RBR ).

Quote from ajp71 :

I'd say bring on bumper cam anyday, any decently positioned camera should be a head rush (just watch somebody else play RBR ).

this is quite scary http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SpL5unq117Q

Quote from Don :

this is quite scary http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SpL5unq117Q

Much better but still needs to be tilted down a bit, I think maybe the quality of modern film makes it look less exciting as well. This is what I call an onboard.

EDIT - Just found this, talk about local knowledge he gives his co-driver a running commentary of the stage whilst giving his sponsors a plug travelling at warp speed down a narrow lane

I absolutely love WRC. Please excuse my stupidity..

but what exactly is PWRC? And JWRC?

apparently you dont love it enough
http://www.wrc.com/page/PWRCWhatisDetail/0,,10111,00.html
http://www.wrc.com/page/JWRCWhatisDetail/0,,10111,00.html

Oh damn.

I'm a subscriber to WRC.com and I never saw that!

and lemme guess, you dont even know about the awesome rally radio?

lol nah I knew about that.

But I always end up forgetting about it..

Quote from ajp71 :

Yes I was actually having a discussion about this the other day, why WRC has become boring to watch over the last few years when the cars in reality are exactly the same as they were ten years ago and we came to the conclusion that there weren't as many good drivers and the cameras were mounted in dull positions. I'd say bring on bumper cam anyday, any decently positioned camera should be a head rush (just watch somebody else play RBR ).

There are more than enough drivers but no competitive cars to drive. Thanks for FIA for example banning the rule that teams could run three cars if they wanted. This has resulted in lack of competition. If practically (without DNFs) only two (or almost three) drivers that can win a rally is not much. Compare how it was let's say 5-7 years ago. Next season will be probably again a Loeb domination, which is of course not his fault but...