I'm not getting into the blindly love/hate Hamilton or Alonso, doing that kind of thing here will only cause massive arguments (and taking away the point of talking about the racing) so I think it's best to take a bit of personal responsibility to try and avoid that.

Quote from axus :

Remember Michael? He would be humble (off the track anyway) and thank every person in the team for the team's success because a great team is held together by passion and appreciation towards others' work, not by some tard that things he's the best thing that ever happened to F1.

I can't say I like Michael Schumacher, in fact it's exactly the opposite, but no matter what I think about him, he always supported his team and he's always been grateful during interviews. I can't say this of Alonso for sure. Maybe the treatment the two have experienced in teams isn't the same and this influenced both Alonso and Schumacher in different ways, but overall McLaren policy has always hinted at equal opportunities between both drivers and Alonso must have known this from the start. I don't believe Hamilton was favoured in McLaren in a blatant way.

Alonso's constant whining seems more like a form of bullying to me, lacking the necessary elegance in public relationship, always pointing fingers somewhere else. He's done it to a very large extent, and this makes him - for me - a person far from being likeable.

And I'm not talking about his driving skills, or his ability to set up cars, or his ability to gather and use information on how to setup cars ... I don't know how good they are, but I have to assume they're good enough.

But if I have to like a racer I need something more than skills. From a technical point of view this isn't correct, but there are more than racing skills in a racer for me to find him likeable, although seeing a human side in F1 may sound paradoxical since most persons seems to be completely lost in their greatness, save a few nice people.

Quote from Jakg :

*Recovered From Pit Radio*
...

It will be the same as when hammond got hypnotised on TopGear.


FA: uhm. the wheel says 0 on it? that must be my cheat button.
Engineer: Uhm, that is your speed.

FA: TC? is THAT my cheat button.
Engineer: Nope.

FA: So, guys? Why did no-one tell me about the removal of the Cheat Button?
Engineer: Uhhhhh, Fernando, we are broadcasting, no bad language

FA: (tantrum) I WANT MY F***ng Cheat button
Engineer: Uhm. Yea. so...

FA: Its ok, i know there isnt a cheat button, but i want everyone to look at me, focus on me, and not on Hamilton.

No offense to Alonso fans, but he is a whining little brat (to use non rude words). Before the race he said, i cant do it, and i bet now he is like thanking bridgestone for having rubbish tyres or something.

Quote from axus :

I rarely come across ....

What a pile of crap, mate, I recommend you go to see a doctor, you're probably suffering Troll-silly-tis...
Believe all the lost translation from Alonso is your choice, but stop messing with Alonso or Hamilton personae, every character is different. Write judgments about that in a forum is like spit into the wind.

Edit: *Removed post*

Don't want people to start saying stupid things like before. lol.

It was a good race. I think Hamilton's inexperience was showing through, as he was bad on his tyres and then obviously overcooked it into the pitlane. Kimi, Alonso, and Massa all drove very well though, and Vettle got a fantastic result! I know all the Hamilton fans will be very disappointed, but I'm glad it's going down to the wire.

Great Race.

I'm really REALLY please that Hamilton retired with a silly mistake in the pitlane. I laughted so loudly. The golden-boy "I can't do anything wrong" absolutely deserved it

Alonso not making any friends I see - "yes, it is still a worry about equality in the team" (paraphrasing).

Kimi's win was great - I hope he can clinch it in Brazil - I'll keep my fingers crossed the Ferrari C-Team (McLaren) retires.

Vettel was superb, and Button's dry setup really helped when it dried out - big gamble, but in that Honda he needs to be gambling! Great driving by both of them. I find Barrichellos complete lack of pace compared to Button very interesting. Shame he's going to overtake Patrese's record next season. Patrese is much more deserving of it in my opinion.

I loved the race =D

Go K¡m¡! (although I don't think he has a chance)

Quote from jamvib :

What a pile of crap, mate, I recommend you go to see a doctor, you're probably suffering Troll-silly-tis...
Believe all the lost translation from Alonso is your choice, but stop messing with Alonso or Hamilton personae, every character is different. Write judgments about that in a forum is like spit into the wind.

So now we know your opinion, but can we know why you write such things? Axus' words are civilised, although they convey a strong opinion backed with facts. I can only know your conclusions, but are you able to back those conclusions with facts? This is what a debate is all about.

I'm afraid that accusing someone of trolling isn't an easy or elegant way out, so please explain why Axus wrote a pile of crap since forums are made for civilised debates, not for generic and undeserved attacks to other forumers' opinions.

Quote from Albieg :

So now we know your opinion, but can we know why you write such things? Axus' words are civilised, although they convey a strong opinion backed with facts. I can only know your conclusions, but are you able to back those conclusions with facts? This is what a debate is all about.

I'm afraid that accusing someone of trolling isn't an easy or elegant way out, so please explain why Axus wrote a pile of crap since forums are made for civilised debates, not for generic and undeserved attacks to other forumers' opinions.

Firm but totally accurate point.

I was getting very bored with the race until it rained around lap 30 I didn't want Hamilton to have a mechanical failure as then the ITV goons would say how luck took the championship away from him this weekend.

Crashing in the pitlane is about as embarassing as it gets, and I loved it

The "Lewis Can Do No Wrong" quotation of the day must go to James Allen:

Quote from James Allen :

Yes it was his first mistake of the year, but 80% of the mistake today was the team’s and only 20% can be attributed to Lewis for the actual slide.

Funny, I missed the point when the whole of the McLaren team pushed the right pedal too hard.

Quote from StewartFisher :

The "Lewis Can Do No Wrong" quotation of the day must go to James Allen...

What the hell? Did he actually say that? It´s natural to support drivers from your country more than drivers from foreign countries but this is just frickin ridiculous.

Quote from Albieg :

So now we know your opinion.

I didn't write my opinion about the matter, I wrote my opinion about the post. It’s based on a quote from Alonso; as a matter of fact that interview happened to be in Spanish not English.

The sentence
"Alonso went on to say he has not been treated like a double world champion, but just like a normal person. "
It’s something the editor wrote, Alonso didn't say that (at least this time), he was asked if he deserved being treated as a double WC, and he said "No, I just want to be treated with respect as a normal person". The right quote would be:

"Alonso went on to say he does not want to be treated like a double world champion, but just like a normal person."

I'm not giving my opinion about Alonso's comments or anything. I'm just fed up with people believing whatever is written and then making judgments ...

On the other hand using retard as an adjective is very sad, after reading that the trolling word came to my head. I'm sorry if someone was offended, at least I've tried to use it with irony.

Quote from jamvib :

The sentence
"Alonso went on to say he has not been treated like a double world champion, but just like a normal person. "
It’s something the editor wrote, Alonso didn't say that (at least this time), he was asked if he deserved being treated as a double WC, and he said "No, I just want to be treated with respect as a normal person". The right quote would be:
.

As it stands, I have provided a source and you have not.

And, I used retard as a noun.

Quote from Kalev EST :

What the hell? Did he actually say that? It´s natural to support drivers from your country more than drivers from foreign countries but this is just frickin ridiculous.

It's from his post-race 'verdict' column on the ITV-F1 website.

Quote from jamvib :

I didn't write my opinion about the matter, I wrote my opinion about the post. It’s based on a quote from Alonso; as a matter of fact that interview happened to be in Spanish not English.

The sentence
"Alonso went on to say he has not been treated like a double world champion, but just like a normal person. "
It’s something the editor wrote, Alonso didn't say that (at least this time), he was asked if he deserved being treated as a double WC, and he said "No, I just want to be treated with respect as a normal person". The right quote would be:

"Alonso went on to say he does not want to be treated like a double world champion, but just like a normal person."

You're right on that

I think people actually laughing out loud (Tristan)when that happened to Lewis just proves jealousy.. I don't want Lewis to the win the championship.. as there have been other drivers.. given HIS situation, who would have done it before.. If there isn't another driver who won their first championship in their first season then I don't care... He can win it. Regarding the actuall mistake. I think even McLaren are just trying to get on the side of the fans, by saying on ITV after the race, that it was totally THEIR fault. You can't say the incident WAS Lewis' fault and I will give some reasons. 1) The pitlane isn't used as much as the main track during any race (more slippery) 2) All pitlanes are narrow 3) It was the only gravel trap on the WHOLE of the circuit... Mr.Tilke and his tarmac run-off areas take most of the Shanghai circuit, if I'm not mistaken.

When people blame it directly, or even joke about Hamilton and his right foot, it angers me. As clearly you have no idea what your talking about. The incident can go no more as being called unlucky.. As for James Allen saying its only 20% BLAH and 80% BLAH. It's either 1 or the other. Allen is biased anyway. He can burn. :bananadea

yes!, here in America the race was at the morning 1am,2am and so on. So i slept and i dreamed that Hamilton didnt finished the race! and that happened!

Quote from axus :

As it stands, I have provided a source and you have not.
And, I used retard as a noun.

You provide a source and change the content adding quotes to a editor coment, which is worse than not providing the source.
I didnt because its in Spanish, but here you go.

Source
There are plenty of papers and websites with this interview, as it was an official one with the Spanish press.

Part of the interview related to the normal person treatment:

¿Es el trato que merecía un bicampeón del mundo?
No un bicampeón, una persona normal.

If you know a little Spanish its easy see that your source took the wrong idea, the editor was in a hurry and wrote something similar, but totally different in meaning.
Those who dont know Spanish and care enough plz, dont use i-net translators they are utterly bad.

You wrote " If he does, he's just a retard,..." yeah its a noun you are right, then its totally okay, sorry my bad for being naive in believing people shouldn't use retard as an insult (adjective), I guess you didn't have the chance to know any person mentally retarded.

Sorry for the OT, this is my last post on this thing

Quote from BlueFlame :

When people blame it directly, or even joke about Hamilton and his right foot, it angers me. As clearly you have no idea what your talking about. The incident can go no more as being called unlucky..

Interesting that nobody else in the whole race was so 'unlucky' as Hamilton. Of course the pit-lane was wetter than the rest of the track, that's why he should have gone slower. It's not the only gravel trap on the track either, it's just that usually there's a huge tarmac runoff area before you get to the gravel.

Bear in mind that Raikkonen, Alonso and Massa were using tyres just as old as Hamilton's and they didn't crash when they came into the pits. Hamilton seems to be harder on his tyres than Alonso and that's the second time this year he's been caught out by it (Turkey being the other).

There's no point blaming the team for keeping him out too long...if Hamilton really thought his tyres were finished, he should have pitted anyway. As a driver I'd say he has the final responsibility for staying on the track. If he feels he needs to change his tyres to do that, it's HIS responsibility. Now I accept the possibility that Hamilton could have asked to pit early and the team told him to stay out, but nobody's claimed that so far.

Quote from BlueFlame :

1) The pitlane isn't used as much as the main track during any race (more slippery)

I'll agree, but tbh if your team are telling you your tyres are shot and you can feel your car isn't right (ie being overtaken by Raikonnen), and that it's raining - slow the feck down.

Quote from BlueFlame :

2) All pitlanes are narrow

And? Rally drivers do turns like that at ridiculous speeds on gravel, and don't get paid half as well. Yes, F1 cars have little lock, but so? Every other driver did it fine...

Quote from BlueFlame :

3) It was the only gravel trap on the WHOLE of the circuit... Mr.Tilke and his tarmac run-off areas take most of the Shanghai circuit, if I'm not mistaken.

Erm, T1 had a Gravel Trap from what i remember...

YouTube link to onboard (lap starts at 0:46) - this shows that at least 4 corners have Gravel Traps.

I will admit that pitlane has the closest one, but that Pitlane is a deliberately slow corner to make sure you slow down - gravel traps should make you want to slow down, and Lewis didn't. It's not entirely his fault (Changeable Conditions + Changeable Car + Corner you rarely do), but F1 is the pinacle of Motorsport...

EDIT - I remember Raikonnen seriously cut the kerb on that Pit Corner, and went a little wide on the exit...

I'm slowly getting more into F1, although that only is because the wet races happen more and they are the only interesting ones!

Quote from BlueFlame :

You can't say the incident WAS Lewis' fault and I will give some reasons. 1) The pitlane isn't used as much as the main track during any race (more slippery) 2) All pitlanes are narrow 3) It was the only gravel trap on the WHOLE of the circuit... Mr.Tilke and his tarmac run-off areas take most of the Shanghai circuit, if I'm not mistaken.

How are those reasons for it not being Hamilton's fault?

He also knew about these things and therefore should have been extra careful.

I was actually quoting the article (editor), not Alonso so I see no problem. Anyone could have seen that that's not an Alonso quote because it doesn't make sense as one. And isn't your source the same website that quoted Hamilton as having sworn at Ron Dennis during the Hungarian GP Qualifying? Something which Ron Dennis flat out denied a couple of days later? Fact is, we cannot know for sure what was said in the interview but given Alonso's attitude throughout the season so far, I'm far more inclined to believe the gpupdate story.

EDIT: More to the point, it's just an oppinion, albeit a strong one. If it offends you might I suggest that you should not be using forums?

Quote from jamvib :

I didnt because its in Spanish, but here you go.

Source
There are plenty of papers and websites with this interview, as it was an official one with the Spanish press.

Part of the interview related to the normal person treatment:

¿Es el trato que merecía un bicampeón del mundo?
No un bicampeón, una persona normal.

If you know a little Spanish its easy see that your source took the wrong idea, the editor was in a hurry and wrote something similar, but totally different in meaning.
Those who dont know Spanish and care enough plz, dont use i-net translators they are utterly bad.

I don't believe your spanish is that good anyway but that aside. If it's a spanish website, it is OBVIOUSLY going to be biased towards Alonso.. The spanish are worse at being biased than the average british guy.. Spanish people put emotions before facts. That's what tends to get them in a strop.

Same interview
or here
and so on
I repeat again: its an official interview with Spanish Press

Quote from BlueFlame :

I don't believe your spanish is that good

Thank you for your support, as you know all about me and my skills.

Quote from BlueFlame :

If it's a spanish website, it is OBVIOUSLY going to be biased towards Alonso..

the first website its not a Spanish Website is F1-Live, the second one is a well know and usually very biased paper, and the third one is Portuguese-Brazilian, someone needs more? give me five minutes and I will find some German and Italian saying the same as these ones.

Quote from BlueFlame :

The spanish are worse at being biased than the average british guy.. Spanish people put emotions before facts. That's what tends to get them in a strop.

How nice this sounds