Hi,

I just finished watching the last Top Gear of the series, where J. Clarkson tries to match his time in GT4 at Leguna Seca against his time in real life with the same car and the same track.

Spoiler - click to reveal

he doesn't get within 15s of his GT4 time

In this episode he talks about what separates real racers from 'computer game racers'. I know from past experience, even though I can drive quick enough to scare all of my passengers in real life, I don't have that extra 20% nerves to take a corner, which I know should be flat out, flat out.

So my question is this, what do real racing drivers feel, as they're approacing a difficult corner. Clarkson recons that they are missing a part of their brain that gives them the normal fear, I'd like to hear the opinions of real racers who have played LFS.

Only thing I can think of is the balls that real racers have, and the fact that they have WAY more going on than just holding a wheel/pedals and driving around a track at the best possible speed.

They have G forces, weather, walls, mechanical failures, and most of all.... the possibility of crashing and getting injured or dying --- I guess you could say... They have no reset button (And they are cautious, have some fears, etc)

We are crazy, careless, and push ourselves to the limits.... even go backwards on the track after a race is over

Quote from Tweaker :

They have G forces, weather, walls, mechanical failures, and most of all.... the possibility of crashing and getting injured or dying --- I guess you could say... They have no reset button (And they are cautious, have some fears, etc)

We are crazy, careless, and push ourselves to the limits.... even go backwards on the track after a race is over

You are right Tweaker. But as I understand it, we do these things because it's only a video game. How do real life racers cope with T1 at brands hatch or silverstone, knowing that one wrong move by them or their fellow racers will put them in hospital for a long time!

Well, they take it easy, and have much better peripheral vision... meaning they can see around their car and sense things A LOT better than we can.

LFS and as well as many other simulations, you feel confined and restricted to only a small amount of viewing space and not much to make it any better. So we get a lot of clueless drivers, and people not aware of many things. (And some drivers online are not as experienced, so there is a huge mix of experience online -- strange most people don't make use of the qualify feature).

Turn 1 incidents are not all that common in online leagues though, they are mostly rare and less severe. But you know, it happens in real racing too, but you don't see it that much I guess because there is that danger factor of hurting yourself and/or protecting your car from damage. Especially for the fact that real racing is done by a big championship, and any racer's points could be on the line.... they don't want to have a bad season No racer wants that

Just go go-karting with your lfs buddies, you'll see a glimpse of who's got what, with decent karts of course. Sim racing helps discover some of that, but the rest is discovered in real life, so until you really do race in real life you'll never know if its in you.

if you'd put in as many hours in a real car, racing, as you have in sim racing, you'd find the answer I think. Practise may be the keyword.

Even when karting, you often go a bit faster every lap, because you get more feel of the kart along the way - it's the same in a real car. The more you push it, the more experience you get with it, learning what your car can take.

But yeah, for those ending up in real races, balls is a big part of the racer's requirements

Yeah, this is all true. But as for the Top Gear test, firstly I doubt that the GT4 time is all that close to reality anyway, I know it reckons its a simulator but its not that close.
Also, Laguna Seca has to be one of the Biggest Balls Required tracks out there. Approaching the crest and braking for the corkscrew was pretty terrifying in SCGT 5 years ago, I cant imagine how much nerve it takes to go in there on the limit in real life.

i dont think people who race in real life have 'balls', just a trust in their ability.

for example, hit a fence, runs back to the pits and jump straight back in, knowing what went wrong and put it out of your mind. Or jeremy saying he was scared a wheel would fall off, you just go out and dont think about it and trust the mechanics.

In real life you pay more attention to everything around you. The speed and confidence comes with practice.
When I started off karting my first 20 odd laps felt really fast but I wasn't pushing near as hard as I could. You just pick up the speed with practice and begin to get more confident that the kart will stick. Just like in LFS you learn the vechile and try braking later and later every lap till you know you can't brake any later. I remember one corner which was so scary when I started off that I thought there is no way you can brake any later there. Eventually my Dad went and stuck a crisp packet at the side of the track and said try brake there. I went for it and I took the corner no problem, after that I was braking later than that till I lost it and hit the pit entrance
As was said you have nothing to lose in LFS (yet :P unless Scawen programs something which hurts you when you crash ) so you tend to try harder from the word go, rather than build up the pace.

Keiran

I think fear is replaced by confidence as you gain experience of real racing, unless something horrible happens. I remember the first time I went karting and there were corners which I now know were easily flat, but at the time seemed utterly impossible. As you gain experience behind the wheel, your confidence grows, you begin to really understand where the limit is, and you start concentrating on going faster above anything else.

By the end of my first trackday, I was just happy that I'd had the experience and not killed my car, or myself

By the end of my second, all I wanted to do was go out again and go faster. The confidence I had in the car meant I was beginning to forget about the consequences and push harder and harder, and enjoying every second of it.

If I didn't have to drive my car home again that day, I suspect that confidence would grow at a faster rate. Knowing that you need to take the same car to the supermarket the following day probably does hold firm in the back of your mind no matter how many times you go

Quote from keiran :

Eventually my Dad went and stuck a crisp packet at the side of the track and said try brake there. I went for it and I took the corner no problem, after that I was braking later than that till I lost it and hit the pit entrance

maybe the crisp packet blew a few metres towards the corner one lap

1. An LFS racer may approach the limitations of a car/track from anywhere he wants. A real life racer has to approach the limit from below, because he will wreck his car and body when he goes over the limit.
2. An LFS racer lacks the possibility to measure G-forces.
Thus, he never fears entering a corner because the G-forces are impressive, even though the car may be able to handle more. The LFS-driver will always keep going.
3. An LFS racer lacks the wide-angle-view.
4. An LFS racer doesn't have to end is racing-career for some months when he wrecks his car, because he can just beam into the pits.
5. An LFS racer has to fend off various sources of distraction. A real life racer is alone in his car, fully concentrated. Try to fight for a position while your girlfriend talks to you about your LFS-addiction...

For example on the Nordschleife there are a lot turns you have to take with bravery. About every car can take them with full throttle, be it a 996 GT2 or an old 944 from '85. A real life driver will fear for his life and car when he approches the turn with 170km/h and full throttle because the car buckles, jumps and screams all the way through. An LFS driver will just say: "Faster, faster!" It takes ages for real life drivers to loose their fear and only listen to the feel and sound of the car.

And a last one less serious:
LFS racers can use bugs.

Vain

What episode was this?
(*Runs to closest Torrentsite*)

Quote from Lautsprecher[NOR] :

What episode was this?
(*Runs to closest Torrentsite*)

What do you mean?

Quote from ayrton senna 87 :

Or jeremy saying he was scared a wheel would fall off, you just go out and dont think about it and trust the mechanics.

Thats until a wheel actually does come off. It's happened to me twice - first time the bearing was broken, second time my dad forgot to put something on the axle that keeps the hub on.

EDIT: Oops, double post

Here's the Top Gear video of Jeremy comparing GT4 NSX lap in Laguna Seca to a real life lap in the same car.
(I think it's stupid without using DFP on the playstation though..)

http://video.google.com/videop ... 587010895482106872&q=

fear is a part of it, as far as ability to learn the track / laptimes go. I don't know that race drivers are anything particularly special though, just folk interested in motorsport who've had the opportunity many didn't. Karting is great fun, if I wasn't obsessed with trailbiking on the weekends I'd probably be into that. Would rather be rallying or circuit racing, but don't have the $$$ or time to put the effort in. Same situation as many into lfs, I'd imagine?

Quote from Matrixi :

(I think it's stupid without using DFP on the playstation though..)

He should've at least used the analog sticks. and why didn't the Stig get a lap or two?

There are no wreckers IRL (Except in Nascar)

Real life uses (marginally) better physics.

Simracers can practise on a whim, at any time of day, and be instantly at any circuit in the world. IRL you have (usually) one car, you're at one track, and you'll be able to practise for a few hours per day, during normal working hours.

While this may seem that the simracers practises a lot more, how long have we been simracers for? LFS has been about a few years, GPL twice as long, but nothing before that could be considered real enough to be comparible to real life. Some drivers IRL are in the 50s or 60s and have been racing regularly since they were in their teens. The experience they have accumulated is vast.

Echo what was mentioned before, there is a lot more feedback IRL, coming from everything around you. You are a lot more connected to the real car.

Quote from Blowtus :

I don't know that race drivers are anything particularly special though, just folk interested in motorsport who've had the opportunity many didn't.

Great point! If driving karting was one of the lessons in elementary school, i think we would see MUCH more Schumachers, Montoyas, Raikonens..
It's just a matter how much money do you have, and does your family have any history and contact with racing...

Its not just a matter of being exposed to racing, to be a GOOD race car driver you NEED natural talent. All drivers will tell you that. You can only learn/develop so much skill. You need to have it to start with.

Also, race car drivers don't loose their fear, its always with them. They just gain more confidence. There's an old quote, something along the lines of "If you're not afraid, you shouldn't be racing a car."

MAGGOT

Quote from Leifde :

Thats until a wheel actually does come off. It's happened to me twice - first time the bearing was broken, second time my dad forgot to put something on the axle that keeps the hub on.

hehe unlucky man! but when my track-rod snapped going around B at whilton at about 70mph, i went flat out through the fence and got knocked out. i jumped out after i woke up and straightened the sidepods etc and carried on, next heat i put it out of my mind. all people who race for real do this or they will drive round being scared and i bet u went out afterwards not thinking about it either!

Quote from wheel4hummer :

There are no wreckers IRL (Except in Nascar)

i can think of one. he's not that popular, maybe some of you have heard of him.......Michael Schumacher perhaps?

final race of 1995 anyone?
final race of 1997 anyone?

speedfreak227

oh, and be careful how you abreviate things, especially in a racing forum. it took me a minute or two see realise that "indy racing league" wasn't what you were trying to say.