The online racing simulator
Standard of drivers slipping ...
2
(44 posts, started )
#26 - keiran
I have to put the point across that the intention of this thread wasn't on new comers. Meeting people like the two I did last night really puts me off continuing racing that night just because the fact they can get off with it amazes me. The fact these two were working together in weaving, ramming etc shows it wasn't accidental. I just hope more people after reading this will be more open to voting to ban when they see an event like this. As it really amazes me that someone can go flat out into the back of someone at T1 and not even touch the brakes yet not vote to ban.

I know I could go race with people I know and I often do stick with my crowd but the main reason I like LFS is that pick up races are so easy. We can say there are a lot of new drivers about and fair enough we were all new. All of us here have had to learn about LFS at some point. The people I'm talking about are the narrow minded ones who will do anything to win and to have some fun they will run into each other causing chaos to everyone else.

I hope now that 472 people have read this thread that even new comers might realise they should be more aware of what's going on around them and ban people who they see acting out of order.

Hopefully tonight's racing might be more successful
Keiran
#27 - ajp71
I agree but never use the ban unless you either know the person voting it and have been giviven a logical rational explination or have seen the incident. Never ever vote ban on someone the first time they hit you, a lag can feel like being hit very hard when actually it's just an innocent tap. The other classic example is T2 on the long Aston configs, get pushed on the grass on the inside and you simply aren't going to slow down enough on the grass, I've seen people get banned for this when they weren't to blame and could do nothing to avoid it.
#28 - mrodgers
Quote from ajp71 :The BL chicane wasn't a good place to use as an example because you can look and stop easilly at the BL pit exit and shouldn't ever have a car behind you when you leave the pits.

What I was meaning was for example at Aston Historic up the fast uphill left -right chicane when your on your first lap out of the pits, you can't take it full speed on cold tires (if you can take it on cold tires as fast as you can normally your not driving the car hard enough) if I am going through there with a fast approaching car in my mirrors I will not drive into the wall so he doesn't hit me, in this example the car behind would have seen the slow car before he commited himself to the corner and there is no way of making a safe pass so he has to back off no two ways about it.

My point is that some mid-join drivers are wrongly acused of dangerous driving just bacause some noob takes them out because he can't be bothered to slow down.

I didn't really notice you were talking about like just when you're in the chicane. Of course that is a hairy place to let someone by even if you throw yourself off the track as you could spin back on the track and into them. But if you were say, approaching the chicane and knew they were coming, then you should just wait and let them by. This is only under a mid race join or a pit out and back in situation that I am talking about, when you are NOT involved directly in the race. Under a normal in race blue flag situation, then this doesn't apply. You should hold your line and allow the faster driver to pass you, not pull off so the faster can continue on. I say this alot here in the forums, and many may not agree with me, but so be it. Blue flags, faster drivers, slower drivers, they are all a part of racing. Just because the leader's are faster than me and maybe I'm sitting in 6, 7, 8th place, that doesn't mean I'm not still racing when the leaders come up behind. I'm still trying to catch the guy up ahead of me, winning isn't everything to me. But if I'm in a new to me car/track combo and a gaggle of leaders are coming up behind me and I'm way off pace, then I will try to pull over and let them all pass by.
#29 - ajp71
Yep normally when I mid-race join I will go off line where ever possible, but there are some places where it is just not safe to run side by side when racing, let alone when not even passing for position.
#30 - Gunn
LFS will only get more popular and the ratio of new racers will increase with that popularity. The number of racers who are recent but no longer green will also increase, as will the number of experienced racers. With everything on the increase we can expect more inexperienced behaviour, mishaps, troublemakers etc, but also more structured races and mentors for rookies.

I have always thought that the answer to online chaos lies in the realm of organised racing (as opposed to a public free-for-all). The public server will never be able to offer you the best racing environment unless it is controlled and organised. Very few public servers are controlled or organised, fewer still are both controlled and organised.

There seems to be so many racers qround who yearn for a clean race with clear guidelines and no disruption or interruption. So to me there is no reason why all of these individuals can't get together regularly and race as they want to in a controlled server where every racer is there with a positive and fair attitude. There seems to be so many of you, which is great! So how do we get you all together regularly in one place?

League racing offers some respite from online chaos and I urge you all to get involved at league level for your own enjoyment and satisfaction. But leagues are usually held at set times and not everyone will find this convenient on a daily basis. An alternative approach would be to have private servers that are regularly active. The best racing I have experienced has not been on a public server and I wouldn't expect a clean race on a public server ever, there are simply too many avenues for disruption (intentional or otherwise). I also do not hold the devs responsible for online activities and I do not see it as their role to police or control people's actions. LFS gives us the options of public or private servers and both have their pros and cons.

In the end it is up to individuals to make clean and fair racing a reality for themselves and their mates. You can't change the world in one day, but you can change your small part of it every day. Get your mates and peers together regularly on a public server (there are plenty of empty servers available for your group to populate) or start a private server where all members know the rules and racing format and can race unimpeded, unwrecked, unspammed, with no voting or banning required ever. If all of this sounds too hard to accomplish then think about the resources available to you already. You can use this forum to announce your intentions and call for racers to join you, you can use the built-in chat room of LFS to meet and choose a server, and you have here access to a large part of the community, many of whom want exactly what you want.

It is no perfect world of course, but there is plently of great racing action to be had in LFS, don't let yourself be dictated to by the public server culture which exists in all online gaming. Join a club or league, or make one yourself. Band together to promote your popular cause and get out there and enjoy this great sim. Find people in similar time zones who feel the same way and meet your new racing buddies regularly. Try to choose a day and time to always meet and that way poeple can make plans to join you rather than wandering around from server to server hoping to find a nice group to race with. I sometimes cringe at the thought that there may be hundreds of racers online at any one time all of them wanting the same thing but none getting it. Together you can move mountains.
#31 - Flycantbird
Without an admin on line, it's hard to overcome some of the problems described. If you find a group of people who are good and are usually on around the same time, they tend to end up looking for each other ( in my experience), and it is easier if you have the numbers on your side.

You shouldn't have a problem on a team server where a team member is present ( I Hope).

We've recently gotten our server going again (www.core-racing) and speaking for myself, I don't put up with a lot of crap from anyone.

I understand the argument that new players need time to improve, learn the ropes, etc, and I'll go out of my to help or explain what they've done wrong before just banning.

However, I think that anyone, whether it be their first day in LFS or their
third year, who's sole intent is to ruin other people's experience isn't worth the time to bother with. You can't force people to grow up, and there have been a few that just won't be back on our server before the 4th updates to S3 have been issued.

So hopefully, you can find some servers when the admins are on.
Another option is to use the 'start game' button, if you have enough bandwidth. With cable, I can usually run 6-10 cars without any serious lag.

There really are quite a lot of great drivers who aren't like the ones in the post. Keep trying, it's worth it.

Bird
CoRe Racing
#32 - mrodgers
Nice post Gunn and I agree that league/team private servers offer the best racing. Problem with us over here in NA is right now there are 16 servers in the list (empty excluded). 1 is a stunt server, 3 say they have someone in them but don't, 1 is drift, and 2 are above 300 ms ping for my dialup. Of the 9 servers left, 1 is running SO Classic with 9 racers which I only like in MRT (running FOX right now), 4 racers are at AS Nat Rev in the XFR/UFR which I hate FWD cars, 5 racers are split between 2 servers running the FO8 which I don't like, 14 racers are split between 2 servers at BL Car Park so they are doing demo derby, autocross, or something other than racing on a track, and 1 server has 3 connection running FE Club with the UF1 (yuk). So that leaves me with joining either AS Nat with FOX racing 1 other racer or Blackwood in the small and big GTR cars with 1 racer connected. So you can see the dilema for us over here in the States/North America. Of course it is no longer evening and it is the weekend, but it is very similar during the week in the evenings. We just don't have any variety to choose from. If you happen to not like the 1 or 2 servers that have enough connections for a race, then you're stuck. I've actually reinstalled NR2003 last night and loaded it up this evening for some offline racing with modified AI because the LFS racing is dwindling down fast over here in the western hemisphere. Probably because of NR2003 and Nascar being so big over here, not many are bothering with joining LFS because it's roadcourse racing, not oval (don't say LFS has an oval, NR2003 does it 300000 times better than LFS and you have 40 ovals to choose from).

Don't really know what the point of my post here is, but........

At least we don't and never really had in the past a big problem with wreckers since they get banned from the 1 or 2 servers with races going on and they are done for the night.

Out of curiosity, I loaded up the demo server list. For my dialup, there are 12 servers (out of 16) under 300 ms ping, 2 drift and 1 drag servers, 3 servers with only 1 or 2 connections and the other 6 servers have 7 or more racers. That gives me 300% more servers to choose from to race in by going back to the demo list. And the GTi on Blackwood is the only FWD car I care to drive. Actually it's kind of fun to jump onto a demo server full of new Turbo guys and show them all up in the little GTi. Quite funny.

*Edit: Flycantbird, the Core server is always a good place to go. I've been on the Core server since the S2 demo came out, I race with Core members in the NAL league (though I'm usually not in the same server per qualifying as them, LOL), and probably 40% of the people I see online are Core members. If I could figure out why I stink so bad, I'd solicit them to join the team as I've raced with them my entire LFS life so far. But I stink too bad (lap times I mean, it's not a hygiene problem, hehehe) that I've just decided to stay on my own in a 1 man team. Don't know what it is, since I understand the racing line, know how to drive, know how the cars react, know all about weight transfer, have fantastic setups (good to be friends with Core guys, RMachuca, and the like for that :-) ), been sim racing with a wheel for 10 years now and I'm still stuck at mid 1:46 at AS Nat FZR with I think breaking 1000 laps the other day. Sheesh, I just realized people like W.Gooden and Modoff from the [400] team were 6 years old when I first started racing on the PC with ICR2 and Nascar 2, LOL.
#33 - garph
Quote from keiran :I have to put the point across that the intention of this thread wasn't on new comers. Meeting people like the two I did last night really puts me off continuing racing that night just because the fact they can get off with it amazes me. The fact these two were working together in weaving, ramming etc shows it wasn't accidental. I just hope more people after reading this will be more open to voting to ban when they see an event like this. As it really amazes me that someone can go flat out into the back of someone at T1 and not even touch the brakes yet not vote to ban.

I know I could go race with people I know and I often do stick with my crowd but the main reason I like LFS is that pick up races are so easy. We can say there are a lot of new drivers about and fair enough we were all new. All of us here have had to learn about LFS at some point. The people I'm talking about are the narrow minded ones who will do anything to win and to have some fun they will run into each other causing chaos to everyone else.

I hope now that 472 people have read this thread that even new comers might realise they should be more aware of what's going on around them and ban people who they see acting out of order.

Hopefully tonight's racing might be more successful
Keiran

When you say 2 of them ramming each other and wrecking I think I've seen them.

Yesterday was pretty bad when I was admining CRC#1. I don't want to ban people, I prefer to warn them, then kick them and if they come back give them another chance.

3 bans happened yesterday. 1 guy just kept constantly swearing and even after countless warnings, being kicked 3 times he still didn't stop swearing so I had to ban him for 12 hours, he left me no choice at all, it was like he wanted to be banned?

The other 2 were together, I kicked 1 of them twice for wrecking he came back and sat in spectate. The other one was a good racer but was kicked once for wrecking but played nice when he returned. And they were proper demo wrecking as well, not braking for T1 and spinning people on the straight.

From what people have told me as soon as I left they started wrecking again and so their username will be banned.

I don't know what happened yesterday, banning people seems to come in waves. No bans for months then loads of bans at the same time. And why would people wreck on purpose when they know an admin is there? Are they n00bs from the demo and don't know that bans work or what?

#34 - Racer Y
Quote from garph :

I don't know what happened yesterday, banning people seems to come in waves. No bans for months then loads of bans at the same time. And why would people wreck on purpose when they know an admin is there? Are they n00bs from the demo and don't know that bans work or what?


I think you got something there..... how they happen in waves
Man there's so much psychology in this, it's scary.

I mean of course when the alpha was 1st released the wrecking increased, it seems that around X-mas, well shortly after the wrecking started again.
THose periods can be explained by the simple fact of a surge in new people. But are there other factors to this? Like will the next
"Wrecker period" be in March (Income tax return time in the USA, lol
Spring Fever too) Actually Stress levels and such seem to increase
with the start of spring. I wonder if the heat of Summer would be an influencing factor. Most of your Violent, sporadic crime like Homicides seems to happen in the summer.
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(thisnameistaken) DELETED by thisnameistaken
#35 - Rumiko
at least LFS doesn't have online protests... like people blocking Blackwood straight because of physic bugs and unbalanced cars
#36 - jjones
Hi i had the same thing the other day on as nationall, had a good start going down the strait and i was behind some one else so i was being fair not to hit him but the block behind had no consideration and nocked me of the track, it really gets to me, im fair and i would never nock some one of a track. So these people are just narrow minded and have no consideration.
#37 - Fordman
Another option, that alot of us use if MSN. Meet on MSN, like most T7R drivers do, and then choose a server ( usually a T7R Public One ) Although alot of people hate MSN for various reason, but it is one of the best LFS tools I use to meet, and greet and race friends.

Use your LFSForum User Info to give people your MSN, then as a collective we can watch out for each other, thus way finding clean servers. When I am not on MSN, I usually ( when I remember ) put Online Racing in my name so even though I am offline, you can see if I am online.

Just another idea
#38 - tristancliffe
Quote from Fordman :Another option, that alot of us use if MSN. Meet on MSN, like most T7R drivers do, and then choose a server ( usually a T7R Public One ) Although alot of people hate MSN for various reason, but it is one of the best LFS tools I use to meet, and greet and race friends.

Use your LFSForum User Info to give people your MSN, then as a collective we can watch out for each other, thus way finding clean servers. When I am not on MSN, I usually ( when I remember ) put Online Racing in my name so even though I am offline, you can see if I am online.

Just another idea

On the same vein, add as many people to your LFSW Buddy List as you can, either people you know through the community (knowing people is a big help in racing as it adds an element of understanding when side by side), through having a good race with them, or whatever. Then check LFSW before you race, and you'll see who is where. If you see a server with 4 or 5 people you know then you can join them.

Who cares if it's not a car/track combo you know or like, you'll learn and you have a reasonable guarantee that the server is clean.
#39 - Gentlefoot
Join the Clean Racers Club and bad drivers become a thing of the past! You don't have to be fast but you do have to be able to give people space and make sensible decisions in a race situation.
#40 - Hyperactive
I really haven't seen much these lock braking or NFS(stfu) people much online recently or wreckers probably at all. Some dangerous driving but nothing really shockingly bad or idiotic.

There was a thread some time ago about a person asking what the different flags mean... this is the problem at the moment. Some people just don't know what they mean and therefore make some unpredictable moves. This is not explained anywhere inside LFS and people who don't visit these forums will never find out.

And that review is from S1 ages. Dunno if it is different now but so far there are not so many idiots around as many people think. Just little more patience on both sides (in driving as in banning/kicking) and it will be allrite.

PS. adulterated, which cars did you try online?
#41 - Iron_Maiden
I now what you mean about people not pressing the ban....It can be pretty frustrating but if only you are seeing what this guys doing then nobody else bans....

Its worst on the oval servers...the other day there was a definate wrecker.....he was parking in the middle of the road and swerving wide in corners to take people out....

Despite him ruining the race over 10 times in a row...he wasnt banned becuase he said he was a newbie.....

There really isnt to much you can do....just try and alert the other racers to what is going on and hope they will agree.
#42 - Jakg
i have recently had an elightening experience as my friends have recently started playing LFS, and after going on demo servers i have seen some "shady" characters, including people who randomly ban, that claim i cheat because i am involved in a crash with them (picture it, im going very fast in an XFG at the blackwood chicane, am about to overtake a very sideways XRT, i miss calculate his speed slightly, and we end up taking the chicane side-by-side, well im ahead, but my rear wheels were next to his fronts, he taps me over the kerb, i dont have time to react and roll onto him, but somehow recover with a very smashged up car while he managed to spin, of course i "cheated" to get past him!), i also meet quite a few people who cant control the XRT, but still pick it, and often (i start at the front) they try to get past on the first straight, they arent expecting me to be so slow of the line (hey! i have 175 hp less than you!) and end up ramming me and calling me a n00b, same on the first corner, they end up drifting and using the other cars to send them back on track. The worst person ive met so far was Luke Duke who fishtailed me without apology, them did the same to my friend, then to several other racers, then after i questioned him about it he came up with three key points:
1. He owned a better car than me (well, he doesnt know what car i own, or that my friend, Pellit, happens to be rather well off, lets just say that he may own an SL-500, although i doubt this, but Pellit, just by selling property in london could afford 4 SLR's, ill let you do the Maths!), ergo he was therefore aloowed to crash me off the circuit
2. That it was a game, and that therefore he could do what he wanted
3. That smashing three people off the circuit so badly they had to pit wasnt ruining their races!

The other thing is that i am teaching my friends basic race-craft, and was very tuprised to hear their views on right of way, they bleieved that if you are ahead or on a lap more than the other racer, you always have right of way, even if you are re-joiing the track, the other thing they believed was that it was the racers on the track to avoid you as you join the track, not for you to wait until it is clear!
#43 - tinvek
last night i went on demo servers as i was determined to get faster so went to the track i know best

anyway

2 drivers on there amongst other and one keeps calling the other a wrecker so i went into spectate for next race and no problems.

went driving again and what u know driver a says b has pushed him off then he pushes a off

did a quick save told em i was going to watch and then came back and told em

a was actually pushed by c but only a typical 1st corner touch nothing that influenced race b then doesnt even brake and rams b at end of straight after chicane. of course he denies this then calls for driver b, c and d to be banned, d being me who wasnt even racing!

anyway common sense ruled and a got banned

moral is makesure your set up so you can save the race and watch it calls for ban keep hapening, its easy to spot whos at fault and i ve also noticed that if you threaten to watch replays the prat often leaves
#44 - r4ptor
I rarely experience drivers who wreck others on purpose, but on the other hand I almost always experience drivers who know too little about how to race - even some fast drivers are not completely aware of this.

I wrote an idea about this in here: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=81602#post81602

Don't know if it's any good- - just an idea.
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Standard of drivers slipping ...
(44 posts, started )
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