Here's part of an upcoming segment we're doing on the CXC Simulations Motion Pro 2 simulator.

Also expect a "This Week in Sim Racing" very soon !!

http://www.simracingtonight.com/

It's funny though, the seat vibrates so much, you can hear his foot on the throttle vibrating rapidly... that is really bad

Cool coverage, keep it coming :up:

That looks like fun! Although the seat and the wheel are separated, the seat moves but the wheel doesn't.. doesn't that make it feel like your seat isn't bolted down properly? I think I'd feel like I was clinging on for dear life!

Quote from SamH :

That looks like fun! Although the seat and the wheel are separated, the seat moves but the wheel doesn't.. doesn't that make it feel like your seat isn't bolted down properly? I think I'd feel like I was clinging on for dear life!

The Theory behind it is that moving you via the seat (seperate from the wheel) more accurately recreates the illusion of G-forces on your body. You have to twist your neck to keep your head in-line, similar to how you might have to IRL.

No-idea if this is true or not, but that's how they market it.

It sounds valid. I think I'd have to sit in both this and a Force Dynamics chair to decide which pushes the illusion more firmly for me

Agreed, I could not justifiably promote one product over the other without first-hand experience with both first. (Both are big commitments for purchasing, especially without said first-hand experiences)

Apparently Frex has/had (maybe?) something similar to this design. They, at one point, claimed the full motion platform like Force Dynamics would do little more than upset your equilibrium.

Who's up for attatching one of the CXC's onto a Force Dynamics?

I've driven the CXC model many times and you're right, the pedals and steering don't move..(wheel is a VPP force feedback wheel so it has feeling) but.. You quickly forget about that.. The simulator definitely tricks your mind and you quickly forget that it's all not moving as one. I personally love the experience ! Takes sim racing to a whole new level..

BTW, that was rFactor he was driving.. I've driven LFS in it as well

In regards to seat vibrating, and you hear it in the throttle.. Thats because Alex isn't that tall and his throttle foot wasn't planted on the base of the simulator. With some adjusting, that would go away.

Wait till you see me driving it in the full segment we're releasing this weekend. Also we have another pro driver Derek Hill, son of racing legend Phil Hill at the wheel.. It didn't do that for him.. He is over 6' tall.

The Force Dynamics model looks cool, but, don't eat before running in it. hehe.. I also heard you need to bolt the Force Dynamics to your foundation. CXC, is plug and play. (I've never tried the FD system)

Quote from DarinSRT :

In regards to seat vibrating, and you hear it in the throttle.. Thats because Alex isn't that tall and his throttle foot wasn't planted on the base of the simulator. With some adjusting, that would go away.

Wait till you see me driving it in the full segment we're releasing this weekend. Also we have another pro driver Derek Hill, son of racing legend Phil Hill at the wheel.. It didn't do that for him.. He is over 6' tall.

There are times/cars where you have to modulate the throttle and not just plant it... In those moments, it wouldn't matter how tall you are, you'd still get that movement in the pedals...

Have not seen this show yet, sadly. Looking forward to it though, surprising to hear Alex didn't get the tall gene from his pops.

Am sure that a force dynamics test should be easy for your guys to arrange, they would love the exposure probably.

huh.. funny I don't

Quote from bbman :

There are times/cars where you have to modulate the throttle and not just plant it... In those moments, it wouldn't matter how tall you are, you'd still get that movement in the pedals...

Thanks for the exposure Darin!

To answer some questions:

Foot Vibration - Powerful race cars have this effect. The time I dove a 125 shifter kart, I had the same exact thing happen to me. The term escapes me at this moment, but racers have a name for it. If not kept in check it get's really bad. Ie: your foot bounces on the throttle, the engine revs at this harmonic making your foot move more. You see where this is going. I think that the fact that this happens in our simulator is a testimate to it's realism. I've had several race car drivers say the same thing.

The FD 310 - Plain and simple, it is just another interpretation of a motion system. We're different. I've put many hours in an FD 301 and for me, this approach was better. But, that being said, other people may like their approach better. I think we do it better in a smaller cheaper package. But as we say in the US, that's why we have Ford and Chevy. Not everyone wants the same thing. I also happen to be a huge fan of Force Dynamics. As a fellow engineer, I really enjoy their fabrication techniques and workmanship. They made me want to get in the simulation business!

Thanks for the interest guys. Let me know if you have anymore questions

Chris Considine
CXC Simulations

You can tell he was very impressed
That's the first time I've seen the CXC and I have to say it looks very cool indeed, I want a go!!

Quote from CXC_Simulations :

The FD 310 - Plain and simple, it is just another interpretation of a motion system. We're different. I've put many hours in an FD 301 and for me, this approach was better. But, that being said, other people may like their approach better. I think we do it better in a smaller cheaper package.

You must admit you are a little biased here. For me your product is really strange, an inferior solution (wheel and pedals not moving) still in the price range of FD 301, i.e. not affordable for a hobbyist. At the same time a device similar to yours can be built several times cheaper (SimConMOTION).

Quote from CXC_Simulations :

Foot Vibration...

The car doesn't even need be that powerful, I remember as a passenger in my Dad's Westfield, he had the same problem going over bumps.

Quote from w126 :

You must admit you are a little biased here. For me your product is really strange, an inferior solution (wheel and pedals not moving) still in the price range of FD 301, i.e. not affordable for a hobbyist. At the same time a device similar to yours can be built several times cheaper (SimConMOTION).

Of course I'm biased! I own the company

But seriously, I just think our simulators are two different answers to the same question. Some people will like ours and some people will like theirs. I can accept that

That being said, you should definitely try both simulators (if possible) before deciding which is for you. Looks can be very deceiving. Just because one is much bigger and moves to greater ranges does not necessarily mean it will feel more real to you in the cockpit. I realize finding 2 of these simulators near you is going to be difficult, but if you get the chance, let us know what you think.

Quote from CXC_Simulations :

Looks can be very deceiving. Just because one is much bigger and moves to greater ranges does not necessarily mean it will feel more real to you in the cockpit. I realize finding 2 of these simulators near you is going to be difficult, but if you get the chance, let us know what you think.

Rather then looks, my opinion is more a result of reckoning that the seat does not usually move relative to wheel and pedal base in a real car when cornering, accelerating or braking. On the other hand, finding a car that actually does that (seat moves; not that its constructor wanted it) may be easier near me.

I am looking forward to trying any motion simulator, although getting access to only SimConMOTION seems most likely here. Not sure if it would be any indication of the level of experience provided by the more expensive systems.

Quote from w126 :

Rather then looks, my opinion is more a result of reckoning that the seat does not usually move relative to wheel and pedal base in a real car when cornering, accelerating or braking. On the other hand, finding a car that actually does that (seat moves; not that its constructor wanted it) may be easier near me.

I am looking forward to trying any motion simulator, although getting access to only SimConMOTION seems most likely here. Not sure if it would be any indication of the level of experience provided by the more expensive systems.

Of course the seat doesn't move in relation to the wheel or pedals... but YOU do. Just a small amount of movement of the seat will simulate the feeling of your body movement on g loads. The wheel and pedals don't have to move with this to make it effective. Remeber, you body isn't moving due to g loads because there isn't any in a sim. The seat moving will give you the impression of the g loads.

I personally think that a small seat shaker with maybe a little bit of wiggle to it would be enough to really enhance most home sim situations. Something with maybe a 5° of tilt and an 3 cm of motion would be enough.

Quote from CXC_Simulations :

Foot Vibration - Powerful race cars have this effect. The time I dove a 125 shifter kart, I had the same exact thing happen to me. The term escapes me at this moment, but racers have a name for it. If not kept in check it get's really bad. Ie: your foot bounces on the throttle, the engine revs at this harmonic making your foot move more. You see where this is going. I think that the fact that this happens in our simulator is a testimate to it's realism. I've had several race car drivers say the same thing.

While I agree that foot vibration happens in any car with a bumpy road... that isn't what I was getting at here...

The vibration shown when Alex was driving was like he was driving the BMW Sauber on an offroad course. Is it really THAT bumpy? I mean come on, the seat seems to exaggerate way too many forces, especially for what is a fairly smooth track I assume.

Of course there are little bumps and pits on the track here and there... but the vibration shown was constant. Furthermore, the vibration was so violent, when he got on the throttle it made it even worse.

Personally, I think something is wrong with how you've linked the simulator to your seat... it is as if it is getting data from the actual suspension arm moving up and down, and not the body/chassis itself. I'd prefer spending money on a motion simulator that still makes it possible to drive, than make it just a 'fun & bumpy' ride deemed realistic.

Hi Tweaker,

I can understand your reservations. I noticed you are located in California. We have several simulators setup in So. CA. I'd be more than happy to set up a proper demonstration for you if we are within your area.

I convinced we can convert you yet

Chris Considine
CXC Simulations

I've tried a couple full motion simulators and so far the CXC Motion Pro is the best. I have yet to try the Force Dynamics or the other one you mentioned here. When I do (hopefully), we'll report on it.

I gotta tell you though.. the CXC Motion Pro 2 kicks ass ! Considering everything it comes with and how it's built, it's worth the money if you have it.. This is obviously not for the average sim racer. We felt it was a great thing to report on though.. I know every sim racer out there would love to have one or something like it .

Check out the full show on the Motion Pro to get a better look at how it performs.

www.simracingtonight.com

Someone also mentioned that it bounces too much. First off.. Thats all adjustable.. Secondly, you need to try it yourself before you say that. I would take Chris up on his offer if you're in California..It's a ride you will not soon forget..