Quote from Mille Sabords :

If LFS goes this hardcore way then it will probably be general nightmare for a few weeks, and excellent fun in close races for all the missshifts and slipping pedals / fingers.
I wonder how that would affect longer races / leagues?

I don't think so. There aren't that many keyboard/mouse users. And the folks who have a clutch have been using them for quite some time, so I would think it won't be that big of a deal. For us with no clutch, doesn't really affect us other than we lift the right foot a bit to shift instead of flatshifting. Simple to do.

I don't quite understand how the racestart is changed by the new clutch modell. How will it be possible to start the car only with button clutch? In the weak cars like the UF1 IMo its impossible without a pedal.

Quote from ACCAkut :

I don't quite understand how the racestart is changed by the new clutch modell. How will it be possible to start the car only with button clutch? In the weak cars like the UF1 IMo its impossible without a pedal.

If you just floor it, it won't be problem. Trust me, right now I drive in a 1.0 litre 55 hp car which weighs 900 kg and it dosen't have a problem with burning rubber.

Quote from ACCAkut :

I don't quite understand how the racestart is changed by the new clutch modell. How will it be possible to start the car only with button clutch? In the weak cars like the UF1 IMo its impossible without a pedal.

i just tried launching the uf1 with mouse and keyboard:

no problems, autoclutch (anti-stall) didn't kick in if i kept the revs above few thoushand rpm. so it shouldn't stall. button control rate at 4.00

UF1 won't stall unless you do something stupid IMO, even with some long gears set, when you start off, wheels spin a bit while RPMs go down to about 3-4k and then you are continuing accelerating finely.

Since when do road cars stall at under 4000 rpm? You should be able to start the UF1 (all road cars) with rpms at or even under 1000 rpm. It's if you dump the clutch without enough revs that it would stall. Just ease off the clutch and hold the rpm at 1000, should be fine. If not, then more work needs to be done (which I imagine more work on specific features will be in the barrage of Y2-xx test patches)

Quote from mrodgers :

For us with no clutch, doesn't really affect us other than we lift the right foot a bit to shift instead of flatshifting. Simple to do.

Don't forget the blipping, because option for it has been removed from the translation files... if it means exactly that ingame too.

Ever tried manually blipping? It takes surprisingly long time to get used to do. Add engine damage to this and braking for a corner starts to be quite a lot more interesting!

Quote from ACCAkut :

I don't quite understand how the racestart is changed by the new clutch modell. How will it be possible to start the car only with button clutch? In the weak cars like the UF1 IMo its impossible without a pedal.

I very highly doubt this is included, but there is a VERY SIMPLE solution to this: "Change brake pedal to clutch pedal" feature.

In the start the brake pedal could be a clutch by default (as there is that magical handbrake keeping the car so you don't need brake anyway), then after you start you press some specific button and the game configures the pedal back to brake. Or maybe even automatically after the start.

It's already possible to do with Vain's clutch start script, why not integrating it to the game by default? Could be very innovative feature and even for all users (well, here comes to keyboarders to the picture :shrug. Only problem could be combined pedals but who actively plays with those anyway...


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Quote from deggis :

I very highly doubt this is included, but there is a VERY SIMPLE solution to this: "Change brake pedal to clutch pedal" feature.

In the start the brake pedal could be a clutch by default (as there is that magical handbrake keeping the car so you don't need brake anyway), then after you start you press some specific button and the game configures the pedal back to brake. Or maybe even automatically after the start.

Oh! Please, someone do this!

Quote from deggis :

Don't forget the blipping, because option for it has been removed from the translation files... if it means exactly that ingame too.

Ever tried manually blipping? It takes surprisingly long time to get used to do. Add engine damage to this and braking for a corner starts to be quite a lot more interesting!

Psst, as been pointed out, there was no word on added engine damage

I turned throttle cut and blip off in March of 2005, suspiciously the same date that shows under my user name .

Now that I think about all the speculation on the forums, it seems that everything talked about is assuming sequential shift. Not all cars should need any change in throttle if using the clutch. You especially shouldn't need the use of throttle blip to downshift. The throttle blip is to rev match so you don't lock the drive wheels up under braking mostly.

Quote from mrodgers :

Psst, as been pointed out, there was no word on added engine damage

Eh, I meant when that gets added in "near future" (whatever that means in LFS terms)

Quote :

I turned throttle cut and blip off in March of 2005, suspiciously the same date that shows under my user name .

Good

Now that engine stalling is going to be implemented and people will have to make sure the starter button is mapped, I wish when you join in the garage (practice/qualify), then engine was off and you had to start it yourself. I'm guessing this could probably be done with a script but I feel like you'd hear the engine shutting down which would ruin the effect.

Quote from ajp71 :

That's simply the effect of disconnecting the resistance of the gearbox.

Naturally, but it does try to maintain engine rpm above stalling speed by adding more fuel. Otherwise it would not climb above the idle speed when resistance is removed. Acceleration has no inertia. As gentle as it is, it does try to stop you stalling.

Part of me thinks it is so you can move the car around your drive at home without having to use any gas.

I wonder if they have actually mapped fuel injection... I want that nice burble you get when on over-run, why does that happen? I would've though pulse width modulation would allow the shut off to be instant?

I wonder if we will be able to crash start the cars with the new gearbox and clutch physics? Who knows

Quote from z3r0c00l :

Naturally, but it does try to maintain engine rpm above stalling speed by adding more fuel. Otherwise it would not climb above the idle speed when resistance is removed. Acceleration has no inertia. As gentle as it is, it does try to stop you stalling.

The engine is producing a fairly constant force acting against the force of the resistance in the gearbox. When you lift off that clutch you reduce the resistive force in the engine/gearbox. This causes the engine to accelerate until the forces are balanced again. It will happen in any car regardless of whether it's running fuel injection or not. Whilst you could have an advanced anti-stall throttle management system I'm almost certain no modern car deploys such a system, partly because it would result in learner cars across the country taking off with full throttle starts and partly because managing the clutch (as racing anti-stall systems work) is far more sensible and safer.

Wow, this thread has really taken off! Its made for an interesting read and I've learned a lot, thanks a lot.

this is all the more reason for scawen to give us all free g25s for being loyal alpha testers :P

Quote from vane :

this is all the more reason for scawen to give us all free g25s for being loyal alpha testers :P

Nah, I don't have room for another one.

That guy with numbers in his name said:

Quote :

Naturally, but it does try to maintain engine rpm above stalling speed by adding more fuel.

It does open throttle a bit, either via throttle butterfly or via idle motor/valve, fuel is adjusted to match increased amount of air.

It won't just add fuel, that would be silly and not very helpful

LMAO! I'm in single player right now attempting to drive with a clutch. Took me a while with DXTweak since my 2nd pedal set is a very old Thrustmaster T2 with combined axis, but I've got it working. Now, if only I could left foot brake, let alone heel-toe and clutch and downshift all at the same time! This is hysterical!

Next step I think is getting the squashball back in there so I don't have as much of an axis on the brake pedal. High stiffness + high braking force in setup is pretty good for pressure sensitive braking.

Ok, accelerate, clutch, shift... accelerate, clutch, shift... accelerate......... clutch, blip, downshift... clutch, blip, downshift... clutch, blip, downshift... WOA! WALL! BRAKE BRAKE BRAAAAAAAAAKKKKKEEEEE!!!!!

Yeah, the problem with heal-toe on pedal sets is usually the brake is much lower than the gas pedal when you are braking. This makes it hard to get you foot over the gas pedal to blip it.

I also find that I am much more awkward trying to brake with my right foot than my left when I am driving LFS. I have gotten so used to left foot braking and to using throttle at the same time to stabilize the car, that it makes things harder when I right foot brake.

And I do have ECCI pedals with the clutch. It is definitely better than the standard DFP pedals, but it is still difficult to heal toe. I will figure something out. I have been needing to do it anyway.

Quote from Hallen :

I also find that I am much more awkward trying to brake with my right foot than my left when I am driving LFS. I have gotten so used to left foot braking and to using throttle at the same time to stabilize the car, that it makes things harder when I right foot brake.

I'm the opposite. I find it really hard to left-foot brake in LFS because I have such generously-proportioned genitalia. It's not comfortable to have my legs that close together all the time.

Same reason I had to turn down the second McLaren seat.

Quote from J.B. :

I'm guessing it will go like this:

-if you try to shift with your foot flat on the power the gear won't change.

-in cars with sequential boxes you will need to lift off to shift up

-in cars with H-boxes you will need to lift off and press clutch to shift up

-both lifting and clutching can be done by driving helps but will result in slightly slower shifts than a perfect manual shift

But I don't really see where clutch temperature comes into play. Maybe just to stop the manual clutchers from being ultra aggressive?

EDIT: Hang on, maybe it's to stop the unrealistic machine gun downchanging!

That sucks big time for peoples without a clutch like me ...

Quote from Riders Motion :

That sucks big time for peoples without a clutch like me ...

You ignored his very next point. If you don't have a clutch, you activate auto-clutch and it clutches for you (but perhaps slower than you would be able to yourself).

Quote from Hallen :

Yeah, the problem with heal-toe on pedal sets is usually the brake is much lower than the gas pedal when you are braking. This makes it hard to get you foot over the gas pedal to blip it.

I also find that I am much more awkward trying to brake with my right foot than my left when I am driving LFS. I have gotten so used to left foot braking and to using throttle at the same time to stabilize the car, that it makes things harder when I right foot brake.

And I do have ECCI pedals with the clutch. It is definitely better than the standard DFP pedals, but it is still difficult to heal toe. I will figure something out. I have been needing to do it anyway.

I am finding this out right now. It is impossible for me to hit the throttle while braking. Physically impossible. I don't have my pedals on the floor. I built a platform to raise them to so my legs are not straight down in an 'office chair seating' position. I simply now don't have the room to move my heel up and onto the throttle, my knee hits the bottom of my keyboard tray (I'm not removing it, keyboard would be in my lap then ).

I think I have my first LFS injury. I seriously think I pulled something trying to get my heel onto the throttle while braking, LOL. I'm not the most flexible in the world here.

Pedal base still needs to be raised, and pushed farther away to be comfortable. That will put my knees into the desk even more.

Darn, this is difficult. Not to mention the 'panic' brake where I just slam the clutch down reverting back to left foot braking in my mind, LOL.

Why is it so easy, simple, and second nature in a real car, but the simple concept of doing it is so difficult in front of a computer, LOL.

Oh, and to top it off, I keep wanting to shift my MOMO sequential shifter like an H-shifter, LOL.

Quote from mrodgers :

Oh, and to top it off, I keep wanting to shift my MOMO sequential shifter like an H-shifter, LOL.

lol, me too. thank goodness I asked Santa for an ActLabs shifter.