I updated that LX6 set somewhat, to cure the natural understeer from the springs. It's made a huuuge difference. Within 5 laps of putting the final touches on it, I did a 1.20.63 with sectors for a .40, and I'm sure there's another 3 tenths in the last sector alone. So I'm confident it will do a 19 in the right hands.

Great thread.

Just to comment at Eric:

Indeed, if you have any coast locking power, locking even ONE driven wheel will drag the engine down because of the clutch pack's resistance, and this would happen IRL as well. I didn't clue in that a driven wheel was actually being lifted, I just knew it was being either totally or partially locked - but this makes sense 100%. It's not a bug at all, just proves that the coast lock is in fact alive and working.

Perhaps if the torsional strength of axles is considered, then things will get interesting. Thinking of that 20 degree twist on the DP1 axles, this would affect the stability of locked diffs on tarmac in LFS. Imagine having those axles storing and releasing energy based on their tire's grip etc, will be great and should help make the locked diff setups appropriately skittish and frightening .

Of course, Scawen COULD simply remove the option for a locked diff for patch Y until this whole thing is sorted, problem solved no harm done

One commented line of code would mean no more locked diffs, a perfect complement to the banishing of flatshifting - patch Y becomes learn to drive properly heaven!

Maybe we should start a petition in the General forum before he compiles Y :

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Great thread.

Just to comment at Eric:

Indeed, if you have any coast locking power, locking even ONE driven wheel will drag the engine down because of the clutch pack's resistance, and this would happen IRL as well. I didn't clue in that a driven wheel was actually being lifted, I just knew it was being either totally or partially locked - but this makes sense 100%. It's not a bug at all, just proves that the coast lock is in fact alive and working.

Perhaps if the torsional strength of axles is considered, then things will get interesting. Thinking of that 20 degree twist on the DP1 axles, this would affect the stability of locked diffs on tarmac in LFS. Imagine having those axles storing and releasing energy based on their tire's grip etc, will be great and should help make the locked diff setups appropriately skittish and frightening .

Of course, Scawen COULD simply remove the option for a locked diff for patch Y until this whole thing is sorted, problem solved no harm done

One commented line of code would mean no more locked diffs, a perfect complement to the banishing of flatshifting - patch Y becomes learn to drive properly heaven!

Maybe we should start a petition in the General forum before he compiles Y :

Yes, I am not arguing that locking a wheel will bog the engine down if you don't have the clutch disengaged. However, what I am saying is one of two things
1) It is too easy to bog the engine down. There should seemingly be more "slop" in the system or there is something missing. I think the engine inertia increase has helped to a degree. I think possibly modelling the torsional twisting of driveshafts, guibos, subframes, diff mounts and tranny mounts might also help a bit.

2) The locking power of the brakes are too high. Even with reasonable values in the brake settings, it seems that rear wheels lock too easily. This could be because of aggressive downshifting, but I don't think so. If anything, aggressive downshift makes things better rather than worse. Even with setting the bias very far forward, you still have this problem. (this might be related to logetudinal tire grip issues too??)

It mostly does happen when you are turning even just the slightest amount.

Anyway, it just seems unnatural to me. It is totaly subjective on my part and it might simply be because of whacked out settings for the car.

I think the losing the locked diffs entirely is unrealistic. They do get used in the real world. But, it would be nice to force people into using more reasonable setups for the cars.

Quote from Hallen :

I think the losing the locked diffs entirely is unrealistic. They do get used in the real world. But, it would be nice to force people into using more reasonable setups for the cars.

Yes, but, it's more unrealistic to have a realistic feature that's unrealistic, instead of unrealistically losing a realistic feature which isn't realistic in it's behaviour!

I'm still not sure I totally get what you're saying about the other thing... I'll ponder it later some more. If you're turning a bit, you just take the weight of the inside, and let it lock up somewhat. I guess you're saying saying that THAT happens to easily - not that the occurrance per se is "wrong", just the the circumstances leading to it seem to easy to acheive, which I guess means you think it's too easy to lock one driven wheel for whatever reason.

Here is mine RAC, low-lock set. Well, Power/Coast set to 40/40 , preload 40Nm. I know the thing is to make coast as low as possible, but if it's decreased, too much trail brake oversteer occurs
Set is based upon old set I've found on RSC, donwloaded Bob's version , then changed it abit.
I've driven it on SO Chicane the result is 1.11.94.

Usually I do run as high locking I can steer on coast, this is to make excessive engine breaking safe (or I will push the inner wheel backwards giving a spin). If I run high locking on power, the tyres dont last too long for me, but (read my sig) power steer is fun. The RAC with a locked diff does not steer at all, you slide it until it points at the exit and power out.

Locked diffs are quite common in RL, and the tyres take the damage, not the axels (since the setups makes the cars behave like gokarts but with alot more front/rear weight transfer)

I only race myself, and I only race for fun, so I don't bother about physics exploits by me or other drivers.

This spring i went to a Wolkwagen car test track day at Vallelunga Track (near Rome).

During the laps i did on the GTI i spoke with the real pilot (there was one onboard of all cars, because after the laps of the guests they showed how to drive it well ) that was on the passenger seat, and obviously we spoke about cars.

He had raced in touring cars (fwd and rwd) and F3000 cars. In that period i was racing with ufr and xfr in the CILFS, so i asked him about fwd race car diffs, and he said that they used to use high diff locks, like 70/80/90%, and when i said him that with lfs we usually use locked diffs with fwd, he answered that in theory, with a rigid chassis, it can be used in real life too.

LFS, from what i know, does not simulate chassis flexibility, so the need of locked diffs on fwd fast driving seems logical to me, it's not far from reality.

Different matter for Rwd locked, imho there is some tyre slipangle problem there, the same that cause pratically an "always perfect" start with manual or autoclutch if u start with full throttle on cars like fbm and fox

the only time i used a locked diff is when i am in a drift server gettin the ass end of the car out.. other than that i use a LSD..

Quote from shim :

the only time i used a locked diff is when i am in a drift server gettin the ass end of the car out..

even there locked diffs are useless
try a very low coast lock to get a better response to lifting off and 0 preload to make the car react quicker to clutch kicks
and of course a very high power lock (75+) for the ass out bits

Quote from Shotglass :

even there locked diffs are useless
try a very low coast lock to get a better response to lifting off and 0 preload to make the car react quicker to clutch kicks
and of course a very high power lock (75+) for the ass out bits

There is a problem with that, the problem is when "drifting" its harder to regain grip to catch a little oversteer (I say a little, because some oversteer is unvecoverable).

However, I just use my racing setting with high accel. lock and fairly low everything else.
Edit: (when drifting)

Great discussion. I followed what was said here and it seemed to help. The set up I had didn't have a locked diff, but did have a high preload. With the intent of getting rid of some mid-corner understeer I turned down the preload and, BAM, instant PB. The car (FBM) is now adjustable through the turn, which means I can overspeed the entry and still have a hope of staying on the line.

I'm reasonably sure it was the preload change making the difference and not a combination of placebo/practice.

I would think people are doing that to get some added stability because, now people have to blip the throttle going into turns.. and downshifting is more of a issue for most

Good thread. I'm enjoying trying out all these sets.
Keep 'em coming.

Would be nice to see a few lx4 setups.

LX4 setup as requested. And one for the Raceabout. Enjoy!

EDIT: See the updated RAC setup 2 posts down.

oooh!

Your LX6 set is fantastic.

It might just be my new favorite car.. Funny.. as two years ago that car was undrivable.

I tweaked the Raceabout set a bit, got rid of some understeer and imporved the brakes.

EDIT: And a massively improved XRT setup

Thank You very much axus.

After a lot of effort and hair-pulling, and tweaking and more hair-pulling (note the setup version number), finally, here's a decent FZR setup. Niels helped quite a bit with the damping.

LX4 and XRT setups are great - this is how LFS should feel default imo! The RAC one feels a bit woobly on the straights, but then it is the RAC...

Btw... You use 0 preload now.. is that a realistic setting?

He must like Torsen diffs

Axus, are you making a setup pack?

Quote from mrbogeyman :

Axus, are you making a setup pack?

Sort of... thing is, these only work on Blackwood. Getting them balanced well on most tracks will be quite difficult. We'll see how things go.

LOL, nice thread!

Now in my humble opinion, and from what i read in books and see on telly, cornering properly is all about getting the correct slip angle in any given corner (yea drifting, slightly). And naturaly until now, it was best achieved with locked diff, and it was easyest to drive. Fast that is. And it still is, but at the cost of huge tire overheating. And since we are doing the MOE, we get to play with setups really hard. So after Y patch, at same driving style, our setup had to be completely remade, as it was undrivable. And we have both locked diff, and clutch pack atm, giving roughly same lap time. And same tire burn. The thing with new patch is that driving has become harder, so setups are gonna have to be made with precision to work properly. And they require mroe delicate driving in order to keep tires last. Now correct me if im wrong, but imo devs have made this patch for sprint racing, as all of given tires atm cant preform as they did before. And that really pisses me off, because i have to go slower than im used to. I wanna go fastr, damnit lol.

So back on topic, it was same before; use clutch pack and you get; faster,more difficult lap times, if you have low coast setting and high lock ; and vice versa. Thats why high coast setting is understeery so it makes you feels in more control, while going slower, just like in your normal day car, where they are all setup to understeer like a pig. So now youwe got the choice: have fun with control at the back, or pwn with adrenaline slip angle at the podium. Either way, all shall have fun. And if you do know of what setting exactly tehy are using irl, and if they can be compared to any car here in LFS, please, i wanna see it.

But never the less, moe 24 hr race is coming, we will get huge amount of info there, so i can tell you whats best option then. So will some other teams, if they choose to be bothered.

I made recently a general “sporty” setup for the RAC trying mainly to make it more (?) netural… a bit les mid corner understeer but also less unstable while changing direction, maybe a bit less understeery on the corner exit while keeping it kind of predictable while loosing rear traction because of excessive wheel spin.
Well this is what I am aiming for I am still far away from my goals.
I wanted to improve the car’s character by keeping realistic settings, like normal tire pressures (170-200kPA), low camber (1.5~1.6), low-mid diff locking (25~50) and with enough ride height so it is not that easy for the dampers to reach the bump stops.

I did yesterday some laps @ BL1 and pulled 1:22.34, using mouse (away from my wheel in Christmas holydays) well it is not a good time but I was expecting it to be worse! I am pretty happy about it because I am still at the beginning of my learning curve on this combo and my fastest lap contained a lot of sliding and silly on-off throttle inputs cause of the mouse… So maybe that is a good base for a fast set.



As for your sets axus, I like some of them but in general I think that it is not always well balanced to keep the absolute minimum coast locking… especially when you are using very high power locking.
Because I am still away from my wheel I can’t give specific feedback but the turn in overseer is a bit excessive in some of your sets like the FZR’s
Also try to watch out the spring length you use cause the LX4’s set is bottoming out way to easy.