Hello,

I'm thinking of buying a wheel so i can play LFS and many other driving/racing games with better fun. (LFS inspired me to do that) So i would like to see wheels in 3 categories :

a)Cheapest
b)Medium
c)Most expensive/best choice

Waiting for your answers

Cheers JetM.

The most expensive and the best choice for me would have to be the driving force pro by Logitech...as the rotation of the wheel is a like a real car (900 degrees) even though ppl chose to run it under 720....it definetly adds alot more realism to LFS. If you have the chose there are companies that make shifters and paddles with clutch as well as brake and accelator i personal aint that extreme as i dont have the money lol.

Do yourself a favour and buy a FF wheel. Forget about the cheapest or try to buy a usb FF Microsoft sidewinder on e-bay. Driving force pro or Logitech MOMO is already a bit more expensive, but are decent wheels if there werent the crappy pedals (you'll read about that). After 2 Moszo repairs Mine are fine now, though and I have one set spare they sent to me with no hassle. Most expensive is ECCI Wheels(which are rock-solid, but non-FF) and pedals or Virtual Performance Parts pedals. A new BRD Speed 7 was announced a while ago with a price of like 750 pounds....illepall

I bought my Logitech PS2 driving force wheel (not pro) on ebuyer for £37 inc p&p! It works on ps2 and pc which is handy... Plus I thought it was a good deal so now im happily seen gliding the servers on my wheel...

Go to the old RSC forums and look for the hardware forum section. There is a list of "top end" component manufacturers there. Ball Racing, ECCI (best pedals IMO), Thomas controls, etc. These are the expensive ones. None offer force feedback. Ball is starting to ship theirs with FF, but unless you have $1500US laying around unused, you better skip that option.
The best bang for the buck is probably the DFP from Logitch.

IMO the best budget wheel (and you really shouldn't go for anything cheaper) is the Logitech Wingman Formula Force GP. It's virtually impossible to brake it by normal every day use. I used mine for more than two years (almost every day use, for at least an hour, often much more). The only thing about this hweel is that the wheel shaft can become a little "lose". No worries though, cause it's very easy to fix.

For a little more money, you will get the Logitech MOMO. Basically, this is the Wingmans big brother. You do get a couple of extra buttons and a shifter (sequential that you can put on either side of the wheel) and a wheel witch feels much better to hold on to. IMO, well spent money if you'd like to pay for more than the Wingman.
The MOMO suffers from the same problem that the wheel might become a little lose, but it's not much harder than on the wingman to fix that.
Pedals on the MOMO is the real weak spot, but there are plenty of guides how to fix this.
You could also try the Logiteck Driving Force Pro, since the price differes very little between the MOMO and the DFP. But I can't imagine how 900 degree of turning would ever come to use on a race track...

Now... The big spender would go for the ECCI wheel and pedals (well, I would at least). Don't own such a wheel or pedals, but one day I will
http://ecci6000.com/6000_wheel_01.htm

(What he said)
Can't beleive more people don't bang on about the Formula Force - it's GREAT. Got one about 2 months ago after trying to get a FZR round Aston with a PS2 Dualshock drove me insane.The force feedback tells you a lot more than you would think, as I found out when I took all my PC tackle into the office on Boxing day to help kill some (over)time, and I forgot the power supply for the FF...felt like driving a really fast milkfloat with pushbike wheels on ice.

Thanks for the info. I am also thinking about the DFP . But it's a PS2 Wheel though so i am a bit scared even if there's made software for it to run on pc that it won't work.

I had a wheel 2 years ago. It was Logitech Wingman Formula or something like that (the yellow one :P).That wheel was (sorry but i have to say it) piece of sh1t.

And i wanna know if the DFP owners are expierencing calibration problems? Cause the wheel i had never worked properly . Also it may be useful if you could provide me links with more detailed info about DFP.

The last question: What do you think of a 80Euro for the DFP??

Best regards, JetM

Quote from X-Ter :

Now... The big spender would go for the ECCI wheel and pedals (well, I would at least). Don't own such a wheel or pedals, but one day I will
http://ecci6000.com/6000_wheel_01.htm

I'm not so sure of that! Sure, the ECCI 6000 Wheel is a lovely piece of kit, but it lacks force feeback. This isn't a problem is most modern sims as the force feedback is a collection of 'effects' that might seem nice but don't actually tell you whats REALLY happening.

But in LFS as the FFB is generated from the suspension and steering etc in real time, I think not having FFB would be a major disadvantage. If there was a wheel available that had the quality of engineering of the ECCI wheel with pioneering FFB technology (not the off-the-shelf stuff used in all Logitech FFB wheels) and lots of buttons, then I'd start saving for it. But there isn't. And I wouldn't get a DFP because of the lack of proper paddles, so I'm happy enough with my Momo Racing.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Apparently that's what the BRD Speed7 wheel will be, available to pre-order for release on the 11th March. It starts at £961.46 inc. VAT, so you can start saving any time now, Tristan

Man that stuff is so pathetically over priced. It's a rip off....
But The pedals are guaranteed to last for an hour a day racing for three years! Yeah, let's think about that a little.... I've owned these logicrap pedals
for well over two, but when you add up the hours, it's waay waay more than what their pedals are guaranteed for and since I've tweaked them, they are better than what they were when I first got them. What would have to bve done to theirs, once the pedals wear out?
Also, their force feed back is in a little tiny shaft shaped compartment as opposed to the normal big bulky contraption that Sidewinders, Logis and Thrustmasters are. That doesn't make sense. I realise there are other ways to make FFB, but I don't see it just looking at that design. Also with that design, even mounted on their proffessional grade TV tray puts you too far away from the monitor.
I can't help it if they paid too much for their materials, or overestimated the cost of production (i.e. pay themselves too much).
I look at the pedals since I know a little more about that than I do making wheels and guess they are marking up their retail price by about 300%.
And why do you NEED a memory chip in the pedals? To me that's blatant overkill.
We need to remember just cause somebody puts out a slick presentation and makes their product cost up to 10 times the amount of their competitors, doesn't mean it'll be any good. THeir stuff may well be very good, but not THAT good. c'mon get real.

Quote from JetM :

Thanks for the info. I am also thinking about the DFP . But it's a PS2 Wheel though so i am a bit scared even if there's made software for it to run on pc that it won't work.

It's "PS2 wheel" just because Logitech wants to market it as a PS2 wheel. Yes, it is stupid but this way they can sell MOMO for the PC and DFP for PS2, possibly two wheels for a same guy.

DFP works 100% perfectly with PC (and if doesn't then the game you're trying to play doesn't even have a proper wheel support and possibly that kind of game sucks anyway), you just need to install the official Logitech Gaming Software here: http://www.wingmanteam.com/lat ... ware/latest_soft_main.htm

Quote :

And i wanna know if the DFP owners are expierencing calibration problems? Cause the wheel i had never worked properly . Also it may be useful if you could provide me links with more detailed info about DFP.

Every wheel suffers from calibration problems once and then... it's not a major problem for a new wheel. After very high usage you might get them more often or if you brake the wheel.

Quote :

The last question: What do you think of a 80Euro for the DFP??

Buy it. Now.

I have owned a number of wheels in my time. I started with an old MS FF wheel (Gameport version) which was a great wheel, well built but lost usefulness when my new PC diddn't have a game port.

When I found LFS I decided to get another wheel and got a Saitek 440. Not bad but cheap build and major driver issues that many people reported on the Saitek forum. The Saitek response was head in sand. Didnt matter as the wheel broke in a short period of time so I just decided to avoid Saitek from them on.

Now I run a DFP. Is it the best wheel there is... Far from it but it really is a nice wheel from the feel of the grip and the wheel has NO play, Even after months of heavy use. The FF is strong and good and 900deg mode makes it far better than most wheels out there. People that say you dont need more than the normal 300deg many wheels give you simply have not used a 900deg wheel for an extended period of time.

I run mine at 720deg in most games as 900 is just a little too far. The wingman driver allow you to set max lock to any value between 220 and 900deg and will use the FF to set end stops when you reach the lock limit. LFS has a great feature though that means when you set you wheel rotation to a high rotation it will only use the rotation that would be available in the car you are driving. It also works in EVERY game I have tried it in, just make sure you get the wingman drivers for it.

A final note, FREX make an upgrade for the wheel that replaces the normal wheel with a real Momo wheel and hooks up proper race padals and button instead of the PS buttons on the stock wheel.

If you want a wheel the for the money the DFP is the most logical purchase unless you have serious money to spend

chants at Kev "BRD Wheel, BRD Wheel, BRD Wheel". We could have halves? You have it for one week then I have it for one week etc.

I haven't tried dfp my self, but I would really need to think before buying it since it seems to need insane amounts of repairing. I've read some posts where the user has said that the pedals started to act weirdly just after two hours. Don't know what's the truth, but if you see them regularly...

Of course it depends what kind of racer are you. If you like your wheel to work flawlessly without needing to repair it every now and then... In this case I would consider buying MS FF wheel. It is rock solid wheel, but lacks some extra qualities the dfp has. It is still precise wheel and I know that many fast drivers out there use this wheel. In short it's reliable and quite cheap. If you're ready to mod your wheel and pedals to make them suit for your tastes, then dfp or momo wheels may suit you better. But modifications shouln't be the way to fix the wheel since you lose the warranty.

I am using the non FF MS wheel and only problem I have with it is that the shift paddles sometimes make a single click into two. But it happens so rarely that I couldn't care less. And the pedals may sqeak... But my wheel has been working extremely well for 6-8 years, I'm not even sure when I bought it... Goes far beyond my memory

I would really suggest that you try the dfp/momo before actually buying. Non FF MS wheels are said to cost only fragments though, so they are really really cheap.

I have raced with both a Logitech Momo and now Logitech DFP -- the DFP is clearly a better wheel, in all respects, expect for shifter paddles.

I think some people have misconceptions about the DFP, maybe I can calrify:

900 degrees rotation being useless:

Right, I do not ever use that much rotation either! But, I do like to chage my rotation from 420 (formula cars) to 540 for rally racing (like in Richard Burns Rally). Originally with my Momo I had problems with high speed stability -- if I set the game to have fast enough steering to make a hair pin turn, then at high speeds the cars was totally twitchy and unstable -- a small movement of the wheel resulted in too much movement of the cars wheels in the game. Now, turn down the steering in a game, and wow, high speed is stable...but now you can not get around a hair pin to save your life! :-( 220 - 250 degress rotation is fine for formula cars, but if you race rally cars DFP is nearly a must. Also if you want the real feeling of a car, 220 degrees rotation is not very realistic, is it?

DFP pedals going bad:

Early DFP pedals were bad, just like logitech momo. I have the new "Rev B" pedals with metal pots and they are very nice. Not VPPs, but no problems with spiking, calibration, etc. I drive ALOT and they are holding up fine!

Bad shift paddles of the DFP:
Yes, they are awful!!!! But you can do this, like I did:
http://j-san.com/djm/images/sp_index.php?dir=./dfp_mod

To mod my DFP like that cost me:
(US dollars, btw))
DFP wheel and pedal $100
Sparco wheel $170
Frex Adapater $130
--------------------------
$400

No cheap, but cheaper than the other high end wheels.

With the Sparco wheel and the proper shifter paddles, my DFP is really an amazing wheel. It is stiff and solid and it is even quieter now. I would submit that the DFP with a real wheel is better than all those over pricesd $1000 wheels w/o FFB! FFB used to be a joke -- a gimmick, but now with GTR, RBR, and LFS, having FFB makes for a better experience.

Also those of you who complain about mushy ffb with the DFP -- I think this is a setup problem. When I first got my DFP I also had the mushy feeling and the "hump" sensation -- this is complete gone after fiddling with settings in the logitech profiler.

Cheers,
Countersteer

Quote from countersteer68 :

Also if you want the real feeling of a car, 220 degrees rotation is not very realistic, is it?

240 degrees (at least black MOMO).

Quote from thisnameistaken :

This doesn't work properly either. It's too soft and mushy, and the wheel can get stuck past the end stop and you have to pull it back over the "hump" into the steering range again.

The remainder of the rotational movement of the DFP is still there, it just doesn't do anything. You can change the max. rotation in the profiler though, which will move the mushy, rubbish FF end stops for you.

I'm not so sure. With the above issues and the ridiculous tiny little fingertip shift paddles, I think the Momo is probably a more sensible product at a better price, it's just a shame it doesn't have more buttons on the face.

When my DFP dies I don't think I'll be buying another one anyway.

Not really noticed any of those issues. My FF end stops work fine etc. I run high FF settings though. 100% driver and 60% LFS.

All I know is that having more than 240ish of steering lock is far more realistic for me than not as 90%+ of race cars also have more than 240deg of lock.