Quote from JTbo :

Also that separates a bit racers, those that tend to take sim racing bit more serious are going to use cockpit view, so it offers better racing between them, where those that take it less serious will get better racing together with similar minded racers again.

How does the view the drivers are racing with have anything to do with the quality of the racing?
I had countless good races with drivers using cockpit view.

Quote from Gil07 :

Would be a good feature to be honest

I hope you aren't serious.

I wonder how life was before the ability to know who was driving with what cam...and i'm not talking just about follow camera, there's plenty on custom cams and wheels only cam.

Until a few months nobody knew nothing, just the usual polls would tell more about the users camera, but now it seems fine to label people.

Until everybody races with the same hardware (controllers, pc specs, internet, etc) there will be advantages and disavantages.

Quote from zeugnimod :

How does the view the drivers are racing with have anything to do with the quality of the racing?
I had countless good races with drivers using cockpit view.

If we look big amount of those that use cockpit view, it seems that they tend to have more mature way of racing, but of course as always there are exceptions.

Force wheel controller would be actually lot better than force cockpit view as that would be more towards what I say above. Again exceptions apply, I know few mousers that are driving quite lot like they would be driving real car.

More of all there could perhaps be hardcore mode, where one would be using cockpit view (extents perhaps should be adjusted a bit) and axis clutch + wheel, also shift+f would be forced so no silly details, shift-p would not be allowed, names above cars would not be allowed either, you could view other cars only when in spectate and so on. Then when some people would like to have race with best possible realism they could, but I'm sure most of them still would race pickup races with people that use mouse and drive from chase view, that would just give bit more possibilities.

Quote from dadge :

read what the guy said. he has a dissabillity in his vision and custom view helps him guage the distances in the game. i know that i can't argue against that because i do not have this dissabillity. but you seem the think you know better so you tell him how to get round his dissabillity using only cockpit view. custom view is different from chase view.

I did read what he said bud, all I'm saying is that if he can see his monitor the view he uses is irrelevant.

Quote from JTbo :

If we look big amount of those that use cockpit view, it seems that they tend to have more mature way of racing, but of course as always there are exceptions.

Well, I don't agree.

Quote from zeugnimod :

I hope you aren't serious.

Well, you see, the more options the better. If realism freaks want to race other realism freaks, why not have such an option?

About chase cam, well I really don't car what view others use, although i find it very strange someone can actually drive in chase cam

Quote from Doorman :

I did read what he said bud, all I'm saying is that if he can see his monitor the view he uses is irrelevant.

Yup kinda agree here, no matter how far away the corner is, - he only has to see as far as his monitor

Quote from MyBoss :

I agree, not everyone agrees that the current cockpit view is the most realistic one.

How so? Cockpit view is definitely the most realistic available in LFS, because you are actually IN the car, like IRL

Anyway, this is the 3rd topic about the same on the first page, merging anyone?

Quote from zeugnimod :

Well, I don't agree.

Well, I do agree.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

Cockpit view indicates someone who goes for realism, and enjoys the feel of the car.

chase cam indicates a more casual gamer type driver, who just wants to race

this game aims for realism, so i think ppl should keep it as realistic as possible, and a realistic view is the view you would have when you're actually driving the car, and that's cockpit view... simple as that

it's easier to drive on the limit, within inches of off or on the track with the view you get when pressing F or something, but it simply isn't realistic anymore so i refuse to do that

Quote from Polyracer :

Well, I do agree.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

Cockpit view indicates someone who goes for realism, and enjoys the feel of the car.

chase cam indicates a more casual gamer type driver, who just wants to race

True and if one likes to drive from bit customised cockpit view, he should try to get that to allowed views in force cockpit view instead of asking removal of perfectly good feature

Quote from Polyracer :

Cockpit view indicates someone who goes for realism, and enjoys the feel of the car.

Chase cam indicates a more casual gamer type driver, who just wants to race

This is probably right, yes.

But again, this says nothing about the quality of racing.

I use the default cockpit view in all cars except the Single Seaters, where I use a custom view that's basically a bit further back and above the driver's head. I don't have a problem using the cockpit view in SSers, but I find that using the custom view I go a bit quicker and hit other people less often.

If a series wants realism, then they force cockpit view.

Quote from Dimitry Gerards :

If I were racing in a league and they would make an exception for a visually disabled driver to use other views I wouldn't have a problem with it.... but this is so easy to abuse, how do you check?

If it's in the constrains of a league then it can easily be done with InSim. Note down drivers that have genuine problems and allow them to race with their custom view. Of course, this essentially boils down to the honesty of the drivers - but I doubt someone would stoop so low as to claim disability in order to race in a virtual league...

On the flip side, I haven't heard of any of this being a show-stopper for any league thus far.

My own conviction is that although I prefer cockpit view (now that it can be adjusted more - I had a slightly tweaked custom view previous to that) it's up to anyone to enjoy LFS however they like really - and that works both ways: if some admin enjoys knowing for sure that everyone is in cockpit view and is willing to sacrifice server popularity for it then it's fine with me.

Quote from Gil07 :

How so? Cockpit view is definitely the most realistic available in LFS, because you are actually IN the car, like IRL

I didn't say that cockpitview isn't realistic, I meant that there are other cockpit views than the current one that are better and more realistic.
Because in the current one you got your steeringwheel on your desk, and then you sit in a position in the car that you get another steeringwheel in front of you.

When I drive a car and consentrate on my driving (IRL) I don't even see the steeringwheel in front of me because of my focus on whats going on outside.

I think it would have been more realistic if the view in the game were set up right above the steeringwheel or on the dashboard.
Or atleast so that everyone could ajust "cockpit view" a little bit to their own likings.


And don't give me that "well, you can see the steeringwheel in real life". Thats not the point, in real life I allso got over 180degrees of view to the sides without moving my head. I can't get that in any game without investing loads of money, and therefore I mean that the game must compensate on that in one way or another.

Quote from zeugnimod :

This is probably right, yes.

But again, this says nothing about the quality of racing.

Don't you think that those who seek more realism and thus learn more and more from race craft and technicalities of driving aren't going to provide better racing against each other?

Casual players can be really nice and aware of surroundings, but still race craft is not similar to those that prefer realism.

Quote from MyBoss :

Because you got your steeringwheel on your desk, and then you sit in a position in the car that you get another steeringwheel in front of you.

When I drive a car and consentrate on my driving (IRL) I don't even see the steeringwheel in front of me because of my focus on whats going on outside.

I think it would have been more realistic if the view in the game were set up right above the steeringwheel or on the dashboard.
Or atleast so that everyone could ajust "cockpit view" a little bit to their own likings.

I don't see ingame steering wheel when I'm driving LFS, also I don't see steering wheel I'm holding while playing LFS, I don't see even those damn dials as my view is focused on track, if I need to look right side of track, I can't see too well left side of track as it is on my peripheral vision, as are wheels and dials too, I need to focus looking them if I'm going to see them.

I use default cockpit view, so it is realistic option for me, adjusting display so that you can't see those at all would be faking.

Quote from JTbo :

Don't you think that those who seek more realism and thus learn more and more from race craft and technicalities of driving aren't going to provide better racing against each other?

Casual players can be really nice and aware of surroundings, but still race craft is not similar to those that prefer realism.

I'm a casual player but I prefer cockpit view solely because I can relate to the in-game world better. Proper race-craft in my opinion is one part fast thinking and two parts respect (for your fellow racer) and I doubt having a hood-cam or a chase-cam view affects any of those if the racer can relate to his environment - and who am I to tell him if he can relate better or worse than me?

Quote from JTbo :

Don't you think that those who seek more realism and thus learn more and more from race craft and technicalities of driving aren't going to provide better racing against each other?

Casual players can be really nice and aware of surroundings, but still race craft is not similar to those that prefer realism.

I misunderstood the description of the second group then. I thought he meant drivers like me: I'm not for "hardcore realism" etc but I still drive A LOT (I'm actually in the top 50 of most finished races ever since yesterday :shy. And I dare to say my racecraft is better than the racecraft of many many drivers who drive cockpit view, use a shifter and have a self-made gaming cockpit at home.

Now if you compare the racecraft of a casual player and one who drives every day it's obvious whose is better. But again, what has this to do with the chase/cockpit view? A regular chase view driver will have better racecraft than a casual cockpit view driver.

Quote from JTbo :

Don't you think that those who seek more realism and thus learn more and more from race craft and technicalities of driving aren't going to provide better racing against each other?

Casual players can be really nice and aware of surroundings, but still race craft is not similar to those that prefer realism.

Casual ? Racecraft ? what are you talking about...you could have hundreads of drivers in cockpit view, jst to please you that know nothing about racecraft and able to run once a month, spending more time playing Heavenly Sword on PS3 or some other game on Xbox...

The skill is something that is written on the DNA...playing/driving/simulating the hardcore way will not grant you ubber skills.

But I would think regular chase view driver is by far minority, perhaps even as rare as we can call him exception

fujiwara, I'm talking about way of thinking, how similar thinking minds tend to choose similar methods doing things and such.

Quote from JTbo :

But I would think regular chase view driver is by far minority, perhaps even as rare as we can call him exception

Hey, museums and collectors cherish rare things for a reason you know. Hell, if you don't want zeugnimod I'll just add him to my chase view driver collection.

*rubs hands* soon... they'll all be mine... and then... *evil laughter*

Quote from xaotik :

Hey, museums and collectors cherish rare things for a reason you know. Hell, if you don't want zeugnimod I'll just add him to my chase view driver collection.

*rubs hands* soon... they'll all be mine... and then... *evil laughter*

I prefer girls

Quote from fujiwara :

playing/driving/simulating the hardcore way will not grant you ubber skills.

So are you saying - that using chase cam will make up for a lack of skill?

From my own experience at Sim racing ... I think having a server option to force cockpit view is a good idea. Then the people running the server get to decide the level of realism. It's really just a realism option that equalizes another variable of racing. For example ... in real life you don't see one person sitting on the roof of their car (with steering controls), and another driving from the bumper of their car, and then at the same time see another driver controlling their car from a custom made position behind and above the back of the car (chase view). It is unrealistic in real life as it is in a Sim as well. If it's a server option, then people who enjoy realism can force this option on their server. People who are like minded will join that sever, and people who don't enjoy being forced into that view won't.

Knowing every other racer (in a server) is limited to a realistic view is constructive to Sim racing, because you know they are making decisions based on a similar perspective. In other words ... they are gathering data about their speed, distance, and their relation to other cars and track objects from a similar visual input method.

Yes, it does limit your field of view ... which it turn makes you rely on other ways of making driving decisions, but at the same time you gain an advantage in seeing the relation of car and track from a view which may allow for more precise driving.

I used to drive from chase view in a Nascar sim, but forced myself to try driving from cockpit view. It took some time to get used to, but I think it is a more realistic way of Sim racing. I also think there is an advantage in judging distance when the front of your car is close to the bumper of another car, and when approaching a corner. It does seem more realistic too, when you have to look quickly to your side view to see the car that was in your mirror as it passes … and that scary moment or two when it disappears in your blind spot.

It's my opinion that ... if you're not in cockpit view then you're missing some of the excitement of Sim Racing.

David