aha, before you apply throttle. Can this be the braking force the engine provides? I mean, does it happen if you press the clutch, too?

so which Differential would be the best for grip racing and rally? or whichwould produce the most speed? viscous

If it just were that simple...

But I'd say the correct answer is that an active differential is the fastest.

Quote from Stigpt :

try all of the following (1 or 2 clicks only)
Stiffer rear ARB

No reason for that in that given problem… in that way you just increase corner exit oversteer because you move weight to the back while keeping the rear roll resistance almost the same… if not increasing it because +- 1kN/m change on the antiroll bars effects way more the roll resistance than +- 1kN/m on the springs.

You want less weight transfer from the rear inside to the rear outside wheel and that means you need at least softer antiroll bar at the back or harder arb at the front.
To keep the suspension balanced you have to reduce the rear roll stiffness by both arb and springs… It has no sense to do changes when the one counteract the other as far as roll resistance is concerned… unless you need e.g. more corner exit overseer and that’s another story

As for reducing the negative camber value on the inside wheel, this is not easy on long tracks with both important left and right turns, but it will increase the inside tire traction indeed.

The only time i use a high-lock clutch pack is when banger racing, super high lock on acceleration means i can still drive with one wheel off the ground

Perhaps that setup is a little bit on the soft side then... especially for Westhill. That's the trick really, having enough roll stiffness at the back so that this doesn't happen but at the same time you don't want oversteer.

By the way, sorry I seem to have stopped producing setups. Been buried in work and stuff... I'll get around to the setup pack eventually.

Quote from kaynd :

if not increasing it because +- 1kN/m change on the antiroll bars effects way more the roll resistance than +- 1kN/m on the springs.

When working in wheel rates as we do in LFS, then yes, the effect of the ARB is double that of the springs. Otherwise it depends on the respective motion ratios.

Indeed… I was talking about specific setup changes in LFS. Not in general

New XRG/Miata setup:
Use of the Viscous differential, because that is what mine has.

Quote from legoflamb :

New XRG/Miata setup:
Use of the Viscous differential, because that is what mine has.

I'll give that a go later tonight Downloaded your old one but forgot to try it

On another note (seems like a good thread for it) I've been wishing for a server that offers trackday type driving lately (would be a good place to hang out if your not in the mood to race and as an alternitive to cruise servers)

Quote from ACCAkut :

As far as I understand that exactly the problem with low lock diffs and open diffs. Because the weight lays on the outside tire its easier for the inner tire the spin, therefor it gets more torque through the diff and slips, causing it to heat up more.

I don't know at which locking this would still happen in RL, because the LFS grip physics are somehow not quite correct (why is spinning your wheels at start still faster), but it would.

See here how a open diff can not handle too much power (in Stigs lap)

That was cool.

BTW who said RH can't drift? Just lock the diff.

Quote from Glenn67 :

I'll give that a go later tonight Downloaded your old one but forgot to try it

I'm glad to hear that some one wants to try it.

New new Miata setup for the XRG:
For the previous setup I focused on the suspension and differential. However I only estimated the gearing. This new setup, I changed the gearing to use the actual gear ratios of a stock Miata. But to add to that my final gear is not stock so I estimated the final to be similar to mine.

Quote from legoflamb :

I'm glad to hear that some one wants to try it.

tried your most recent miata set today and love it, goes into my favorite setup list

Really enjoyed throwing it around south city, it actually feels how I'd ecpect a real road car to feel. Would love to see some races or autocross events done around this set.

Once setup control is added in the server options, then that type of racing could be done.

I don't really find the diff setups a problem. If that's the way people want to address tuning, super. There really is no "wrong" way to set up a car. It's really whatever works for you. The diff is one approach to this. Locked can work for certain situations. It just depends on what you're trying to achieve.

I've generally preferred a viscous diff because it's a little less intrusive on handling. The clutch type is more stable for drifting though. I personally don't like high coast locking because it can introduce excess understeer and difficult steering with my particular setup. I could modify the setup to work around this or even favor this behavior if I wanted. This is part of the process. As well the settings will vary depending on track, corner sharpness, the amount of steer in, and throttle given. In the end, you're simply stuck with a best fit and something that works well for you.

So what's the deal with this. My team mates stopped driving XFR/UFR after the Patch "Y", because of the tires and the clutch warming. Yesterday we drove the restricted XFR (30 % intake restriction) and the tires (R2) cooked after 5 laps on So chicane rev. Now, they blame the "Y" patch and crapy tires, but i blame the way we drive (way too agresivelly compared to RL) and blame the wierd setups. I noticed we were driving with locked diff setup.
Now, what kind of diff setup would this kind of car (XFR) be using in real life?

Almoust none, cause it wouldnt be nice to turn etc..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

the tires (R2) ...
Now, what kind of diff setup would this kind of car (XFR) be using in real life?

Firstly Scawen has suggested that since patch Y we should be using the next tyres up to get similar performance to pre patch Y. So if your old set uses R2 you should probably change the fronts to R3s.

As for locked diff's on FWD well there will always be alot of debate about what is realistic and what is not

Definately on dirt it's not uncommon for FWD to use a welded diff, and people do use it on tarmac also in some cases. Wheather that is faster than a properly set up car I don't know, in reality it's probably the cheapest way not the best way

Usually a 1.5-way (clutch type) is good enough for most applications. 2-way doesn't work really well on a fwd and a 1-way (helical) is not suifficient really.

Just try to use more natural values, something that feels good. Like 60/40 with 80 to 100Nm preload maybe. Don't forget that you have to fix the suspension setup too, since all locked diff setups exploit some weird quirks, like really high front ARB for example.

Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to drive a FWD with anything but an open differential so my thought are purely theoretical, but shouldn't a locked diff cause horrible, horrible, horrible torque steering?
The logic is simple. The tractive forces on the front wheels engage at the contact patches of the wheels and due to the not-open diff the forces at each of the two driven wheels are different. Since the pivots of the wheels are not identical with the point at which the tractive forces engage there must be differently large torques which should lead to a quite immense torque at the steering wheel.

From my experience the effect is only minimal in LFS, even in an XFR with a locked diff on slicks on tarmac. Is this something caused by the steering geometry in LFS (which isn't stated anywhere for the different cars AFAIK, I yet have to see the kingpin offset etc. for any LFS car) or does the FFB amplitude simply max out and the effect is cut off due to clipping?

Vain

You've never pressed the "susp" button in the garage then, or pressed Shift-L while driving. You can see all the suspension modelling there (including Kingpin inclination).

And yes, locked diffs give horrid steering torques on FWD cars in both real life and LFS. Just switch between a locked diff and a sensible clutch pack diff off and car, drive a lap at the limit, and the differences should be readily apparent.

I don't believe the "horrid steering torque forces" are as strong as in real life though.

I base this on what my dad has described from his days of running a mini at the speedway many years ago.

The mini was fully preped for the time (mid 70's) from my recollections (I was only 8 at the time ) it had twin su carbs (basically one barel per cylinder) was fully blue printed, lightened running gear, bored out, etc. He used to run slicks which from memory were of the same size both sides. His competitors were running RWD cars which ranged from fuel injected 6s upto big V8's many of which ran different size tyres both sides for running on an oval dirt track.
On muddy track conditions he would be competitive but have a hard time. The ideal track conditions he diecribes as basically like tarmac i.e. dryed out smooth track with rubber laid down. In these conditions he used to win with ease, to such an extent that he was often handicaped by up to 1 full lap.

I know since talking with him that it did definately have a welded diff, stiff ARB at the rear and camber adjusted via cutting and rewelding various suspension components. So I would have to conclude from this that his setup was similar to the so called expliot setups seen in LFS.

He did describe to me that there was a special knack to driving this mini in that configuration. The person he sold the mini to after he retired accused him of sabortage because he just couldn't get it to go around corners under power. He would come flying up to a corner and try power around and end up going straight up the embankment. Thats how extreme the "horrid torque forces" were.

To get around the corners my father would blip the throttle causing sudden wieght shifts thus allowing him to rotate the car into the corner, he would then plant his foot back on the power and power through the whole corner. He was thus able to keep max power down for a very large percentage of the track, where his competitors would be straggling to keep power down in their bigger and more powerful RWD cars.

So I believe there are still some issues in LFS which allow this type of setup to be too easy to drive, whatever they may be

Quote from Glenn67 :

I know since talking with him that it did definately have a welded diff, stiff ARB at the rear and camber adjusted via cutting and rewelding various suspension components. So I would have to conclude from this that his setup was similar to the so called expliot setups seen in LFS.

Only that the exploit setups use stiff ARB at the front.