I find really quite funny when someone says that a car with 900hp with no TC is too hard to drive... no shit....
...to add to that, not only should it be hard to drive such car with a keyboard, it should be downright impossible....good luck modulating 900hp with digital input...
@Ajp what car was i in? and what track i don't think im all over the place, i raced in the [DSR] Spec series missed 2 races and got a drive through on the last race and still came 11th overall i got 6th 4th and should of had 6th again and this is against top quality racers i do my best with what ive got at the minute. Im usually on pace with most pepople in cars i like at any track.
Which is for a wheel and TC, not keyboard and no TC
You must be after what you've said. A decent driver wouldn't attempt to use a WR setup on a keyboard to determine if a car is realistic without TC.
Oooooh, a threat from a child. I'm really scared. Maybe when I've made you cry you'll go and by an ice-cream, or a sherbert dipper? Seriously, come to a race by all means, but I doubt you'll do anything other than make me laugh. At you.
It does strike me that the current topic of discussion is completely irrelevant, because it involves someone who has no variable throttle input claiming that a car with 1378bhp per ton is hard to drive now that the physics are more realistic.
Really?
It's also worth pointing out the huge difference between someone who can set fast laps, and someone who is a good racer. I'm not saying anyone is in any particular place in that spectrum, but remember that fast laptimes do not alone a good racer make.
Tristan, stop doing the age thing by all means insult him about experience, skill, logic, intelligence, but age alone isn't really fair :rolleyes: you have enough ammunition without resorting to that
Plus im not talking about driving it with no TC i was talking about the car in general.
So i need to have race experience to comment on how bad it handles now compared to patch X ?
Tristan if you think im scared of you then your mistaken. ive seen some pictures of you and you look like some scrawny I.T consultant that couldn't bang a door shut.
No but saying that an F1 does not handle right after patch X when you have never probably put a normal road car out of shape let alone driven one is one reason.
Then when you are trying to drive a car that IRL takes a VERY special person to push to the limit with a DIGITAL control that does't give you the subtle control and you realise why people REALLY question you.
Have you ever driven a road car? If so what is your experience? If not then what possible point of reference can you possibly have?
You need to actually simulate TC to do other cars properly, like the FZ5. All the 911s have TC, and the RB4 quite possibly would have TC if it was a real car, although it doesn't really need it.
Ive only done 3 driver training days as i wanted to do my ARDS's test but i stopped as i thought right now might not be the best time to start racing, my dad has offered me a seat in one of his race cars if i pass my ARDS's test which i will be tempted by after june.
I don't need to have pushed a car to the limit to tell you that it doesn't handle as good as it did in patch X. Ive done over 5000 laps with it there so people telling me and every other person that raced that combo "there is nothing wrong with" Isn't making a valid point.
Example- all FOX racers said the fevs wrecked to FOX with patch Y and as i hardly ever raced it i didn't notice the difference and actually thought it handled better in patch Y, just saying you need to know how the car feels and have alot of experience with it to tell the difference.
Ive also tried it at blackwood with a G25 and still i see the same things happening with mulitple sets.
So you have done 3 driving lessons and have never been close to the limit ever. Glad we have cleared that up.
You have no idea what you are talking about at all do you?
All your 5000 laps with a digital controller have done it teach you to control patch X physics with a keyboard. They have NOT taught you to drive an F1 car.
Now those physics have IMPROVED your techniques have become invalid and you are not happy. Now we really get to the truth!
You 5000 laps expereince are worth NOTHING, you have NO reference to know what a basic road car feels like let alone an F1 car.
All it has let you see is that the physics have CHANGED between X & Y, nothing else. How can you tell which is realistic, you don't even know what realistic actually is!
ALL FOX drivers. Thats a VERY sweaping statement. Very glad you are speaking for me. ALL drivers say that do they, when did you ask us all what we think?
The TC is not an important part in setting up a 911, in road or race form it simply acts as a law suit avoidance system rather than a performance aid. In contrast a modern F1 car isn't setup or designed to be controlled with a lead weight on the throttle pedal, it's a bit like modern fighter jets being fundamentally unstable. Why any front-four road car should ever have to have TC, or pretty much any four wheel drive car for that matter is beyond me, you'd have to be independently applying power or braking each wheel independently, I know a few RWD production racing cars do this and they get a huge performance gain as a result but I doubt such a system would benefit a 4WD car.
You absolutely have to push a car to and probably beyond the limit to tell what its handling is like in racing conditions, you can find that limit in LFS. There's no need to have real world experience per se if you have a good FF wheel you can pretty quickly relate the limit to what feedback the cars giving you. Real cars do feel different and I found it was only after my first (and so far only ) spin that I truly began to appreciate how the car told you where the limit was. You however are not using a controller that gives any feedback so only have audio and visual clues to go by which aren't as easy to spot in a sim as real life.
There have been changes to both car and track, which are realistic but will mean that both have different limits and you'll have to setup the car differently. Real circuits get changed as well and even a tiny change can make a huge difference. It happens IRL as well I remember one year they made a minute change to Copse at Silverstone that no one knew about before practice and afterwards the majority of the grid was trying to change their third gear ratio because it needed to be slightly longer, for a series where most drivers kept the same set of gears in all year this was a pretty radical change but I don't remember everybody bouncing up and down declaring it was unrealistic just because they had to change their setup to remain competitive on the new circuit.
The engine was modeled unrealistically, the old engine was far more exciting to drive but it wasn't like the production engine it was based on, the criticism was all personal opinion that the car had become less exciting to drive, which it had because the simulation had become more realistic.
IDK...disregarding the thrill of going fast I found the BF1 with TC a bit boring. Which was why I always drove the FO8 instead of the BF1 when ever I drive a formula. BF1 without TC is challenging yes but it quite far from being impossible.
If this oval driver think that the BF1 is not impossible without TC, then there's absolutely no reason you should as well.
Ya as ajp said it's the novelty of having a new formula that makes many people flock to the FBM.
Also, by "not as good anymore" do you mean not as easy?
If you can drive the BF1 competitively with kb and mouse and then cant manage to maintain that same level of competitiveness in Patch Y...then that means it's more realistic (which would be a good thing).
Just because something becomes more difficult doesn't mean it becomes "crappier". In fact, in a sim that's normally a good thing
Tristan you have very good points (unless it comes down to NASCAR/Indy talks), but would it be even remotely possible for you to have a civil discussion when it becomes heated? A negative assertion would normally spark a negative counter instead of a calm agreement (which would be, i'm assuming, the goal of an argument). It would be more productive if you can correct someone without flaring their temper.
I must say the old physics saved me from crashing me irl. In heavy rain avoiding an exhaust-pipe of a truck at 125km/h with lousy avon tyres on the car. How to cope with weight transfer is something i learned of lfs and the tyres of lfs are the same as avon shit*. So the old physics were already good, the new even better :headbang: But it is still not perfect which is impossible to achieve.
But on topic, keyboard control gives only a very rough impression of the speeds and capabilitys of a car. But i would like to see an server option to allow or disallow tc. The bf1 is great without the tc, although the tc is not very good it still gives an advantage which makes it very difficult to beat.
* not completly true, sportscar gt was also very good, but outdated
Right i tell you what i will do, if you think that LFS is so realistic and is so much like real racing, when i get my G25 ill hand it to my dad and he can tell me what he thinks and if it is like driving a real car and if the physics are as good as everyone says ive tried LFS with a G25 and the BF1 still feels crappy.
Just to clarify as soon as patch Y came out that was the first car me and lots of other people tried, i had lots of angry comments that day of unhappy people.
Ever wondered if it's your setup, driving or controller that is the fault here? Adapt the car for Blackwood and you'll cure any understeer. It really is that simple.
Edit: The comments on the day of release were because things had changed. The static camber was different, the engine simulation was different. It takes time to adapt. Old setups are no longer valid (don't use them), and old techniques that took advantage of flaws, errors or omissions in the simulation might no longer be exploitable.
But I assure you, the Sauber is now slightly more realistic than it was.
I have never driven a Formula 1 car. The Bf1 in LFS is a much simplified version of the real life one. Look at the steering wheel and all those buttons! All I will say is that I drove in OWRL F1 series last season and my results improved at the end of the season after spending an evening on youtube looking at real footage and learning some of the tricks they use.
The change to patch Y is minimal once you adapt the setup of the car to take account of things like the changes in the characteristics of the slick tyres. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
And when you do that MAKE SURE you give him a REALISTIC setup, not a WR one that on the whole exploit all the holes in LFS.
If you put him in a car with locked or high locking diff that is stiff as hell it WILL NOT feel "realistic" because again he will have NO reference unless he has driven that sort of car. (Hint most people have ONLY ever driven OPEN diffs BTW, the cheapest and also most forgiving for road use)
I assume you mean get him to drive one of the road cars because I doubt he has ANY F1 seat time to compare!
The reason everyone bitched at patch Y is that all of a sudden ALL the bad techniques sudddenly had a negative effect. The same happened when tyre heat was introduced as people bitched that tyre temps were wrong (They are not perfect but good enough). In the same way loads bitched about the clutch.
For many "change = bad"
If you have this mind set you will FAIL a lot in life. Embrace change and the effects it has on you. Never stop learning!
Old pre-Y setups won't work as well with version Y, especially WR ones. You need to make new setups.
Patch Y includes updated physics and updated tracks. So you need to adapt to those changes. Changes mean that some things that worked well before don't work as well now. No use complaining about it.
As for the BF1 being better at Aston than Blackwood... as Tristan said, you need to adjust your setups for each track. You need to set your car up for each track and event when racing in real life, so why should you expect things to be easier in LFS, which after all tries to be the most realistic racing sim on the PC?
by all means insult him about experience, skill, logic, intelligence, but age alone isn't really fair :rolleyes: you have enough ammunition without resorting to that 
