Quote from XCNuse :

What's really upsetting was the news this morning, that 5 total died.
Small number maybe, but that's besides the point.

5 students dead in the space of 10 minutes is a MASSIVE number. One death is too many but 5 deaths, to the rest of the world, is still a blood-bath massacre.

Guess the rest didn't get in since I've been having crappy internet all day until now, it isn't as bad (yea it's still devistating and terrible), but still nothing compared to say Columbine.

Just the fact that he kicked the door in of a lecture hall, went onto the stage and shot with a shotgun is just... wow

My school hasn't been going so well either, one guy was shot last weekend in some alley, and we've had repeated bomb threats in a nearby apartment/dorm on campus.

Giving everyone guns so that they can "defend" themselves is a retarded idea. March explained it quite nicely, but there are more reasons for its idiocy, and that is that people without proper training using guns is asking for more and more bloodbaths; idiots fuelled by action heroes trying to save the day will do more harm than good, as I doubt _any_ of them will know _anything_ about their gun, other than that it (supposedly) kills when you aim and shoot.

In an unprepared situation, where a potentially low-intellect, suicidal psycho has gone apeshit in a close area you will not be prepared to take him down unless you have been trained to do so. Guns are made for killing, but the human mind is not ready to cope with extreme situations unless trained to do so, or properly prepared, or unless you grew up in a very, very bad place - think middle of the jungle with all the wild animals and psycho bushmen bad. You'll just end up shitting yourself and blind-firing around a corner, and then getting yourself killed when the other guy knows where you are and realises that his weapon is three times more powerful.

Everybody always speaks about handling guns and "taking down" the bad guys like it's a videogame, or a movie; it's not, and you will be shitting your pants before you get anything heroic done.

It's really not that hard to ban (mostly military) guns which are made for killing other people. Ban Sniper Rifles, SMG's, Assault Rifles and all that crap. You cannot tell me that you use an M16 to hunt deer in a city; the USA ought to get a law in place which forbids you to carry or own guns without a license (following extensive and expensive training) and limiting those licensed guns to simple handguns.

That being said, it will probably be impossible to pass such a law anyway, when all the conservatives will cry about their rights and how their freedom is being taken away, all the while lovingly taking it up the ass by the patriot act. Outdated laws can and should be changed; this isn't the Wild West anymore.

And now that I got that off my chest: every American I have met so far has been absolutely great, and I thoroughly believe that the stereotypical American ("Yeehaw" - I sleep with a loaded gun under by pillow" is quite rare, but in a country of 300 million there are still plenty of imbred lunatics running around, and regulation becomes essential.

When I heard this on the radio this morning I was like: oh again? When will the LFS off topic thread open?
They said this was the 4th shooting in a school this WEEK. Say again there isn't something wrong with that society.. Over here 4 in a decade would be a lot.

And I loved the reaction from Xcnuse, that 5 dead students isn't a lot. It just proves to me how much you people over there got used to dead people in the news. And getting used to killings on the news is not a good thing.

Quote from DrDNA :

Think about it - have you ever been sad or angry enough to literally want to mow down crowds of people you didn't know?

Yes. Well, not personally, but I know someone who had this urge, back when she had a severe mental illness. The fact that all other people appeared to live happily while she had been suffering for so long made her very angry. (BTW, I'm married to her and I love her deeply.)

I believe there are many people, in all countries, who feel this way. Some of them live in a country where they can get the means to do it. Some of those may give in to the urge. The example set by others also counts; it's hard to be original when you are depressed.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

I hope these gunmen burn in hell.

They may have felt like they were living in hell before they died.

Quote from xaotik :

So, until there is an accurate and devastating enough weapon to fulfill my sinister plans I'll just have to resort to narrative imperative and skulk around in my tower kicking failed experiments around and preparing the speech I'll deliver which explains my plan and ends exactly the moment I activate the timer.

are you sure you want to give the hero time to come up with a cunning plan to stop you in the last second?
which movie is that from btw? might be a darkwing duck episode for all i know

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

There are pretty few nations in the history of the human race who could withstand that charge... your own obviously included. Not saying I disagree with the idea that there's something wrong at the core of American life, but I'd expand it to human life--just some undiagnosed factor in America that tends to bring it out more often.

true but there arent that many which had an economy based on slavery just a few hundred years ago
of course if you add a few more hundred years youll find a whole bunch of economies based in murdering jews but thats a long way in the past theres been a whole bunch of philosophical and ethical progress since then and godwin protects me from you using any more recent examples on me

Quote from Shotglass :

true but there arent that many which had an economy based on slavery just a few hundred years ago
of course if you add a few more hundred years youll find a whole bunch of economies based in murdering jews but thats a long way in the past theres been a whole bunch of philosophical and ethical progress since then and godwin protects me from you using any more recent examples on me

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Godwin's Law. But it doesn't prevent using Nazi Germany for legitimate comparisons. There's a pretty big difference between, say, comparing the treatment of food animals with the holocaust (actually had to disabuse a kid of this notion when I was TAing a writing class) and comparing the treatment of blacks in the US (or the treatment of aborigines in Australia) with the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany.

Anyway, nearly all countries have histories of enslavement, racism, etc. America is newer and bigger than most of them, and its scars are fresher.

Quote from Shotglass :

are you sure you want to give the hero time to come up with a cunning plan to stop you in the last second?

My cybernetic appendages are tied. It's part of the Guild's charter.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

There's a pretty big difference between, say, comparing the treatment of food animals with the holocaust (actually had to disabuse a kid of this notion when I was TAing a writing class) and comparing the treatment of blacks in the US (or the treatment of aborigines in Australia) with the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany.

Well for the first one there's some animal rights movie to blame - I think Joachim Phoenix did the narrating it, I forget the name.

I'm not entirely sure how the slavery thing ties in to the "The Gun Rampage" - then again nothing I've added to this thread ties in to it either - but, I agree, the whole methodology used and the reasons Jews, Roma (gypsies) and the odd communist (regardless of descent) were enslaved during the "The Sauerkraut Rampage" really had little to do with the whos, whys and hows chocopeople ended up in the Americas.

Being a uniquely American problem, I think it's fair to assume that it's something deep in the American system that's at fault. A lot of countries have civilians that are armed (don't the Swiss have more guns per person?), so it's not simply a matter of having guns, it's how they're treated.

Anyway, the gun discussions have been done to death so I won't go there. Personally I think part of the problem is the paranoid censorship that America seems to cherish. US tv and films are the best example of this, where anything considered a threat is blurred all swearing or even a hint of a mention of horrible things like drugs is muted.

So kids grow up watching this fantasy world, where nobody swears, everybody who does bad things dies (usually gets shot ), and the ending is always happy. Drugs are bad, guns are bad, swearing is bad, being angry is bad, being nice will bring you all you need.

And then you grow up and discover the real world. You meet people who do drugs and find that they're not suffering horribly, in fact it's like some of them are having a great time. How can it be!?

You see somebody with a gun and see the respect and awe they bring. You see people swearing without any consequence and you see complete arseholes with beautiful girls on their arm. You're nice and polite to people, and yet you don't win the lottery, you haven't got the girl, loads of friends, a great car and nobody's paying you the attention you deserve.

How can it be? You've been lied to all this time. You've made it to your teenage years and only just now discovered that sometimes life kicks you in the balls. Nobody mentioned this, it all looked so easy.

You can't handle it. You get angry.

Quote from durbster :

Being a uniquely American problem, I think it's fair to assume that it's something deep in the American system that's at fault. A lot of countries have civilians that are armed (don't the Swiss have more guns per person?), so it's not simply a matter of having guns, it's how they're treated.

Anyway, the gun discussions have been done to death so I won't go there. Personally I think part of the problem is the paranoid censorship that America seems to cherish. US tv and films are the best example of this, where anything considered a threat is blurred all swearing or even a hint of a mention of horrible things like drugs is muted.

So kids grow up watching this fantasy world, where nobody swears, everybody who does bad things dies (usually gets shot ), and the ending is always happy. Drugs are bad, guns are bad, swearing is bad, being angry is bad, being nice will bring you all you need.

And then you grow up and discover the real world. You meet people who do drugs and find that they're not suffering horribly, in fact it's like some of them are having a great time. How can it be!?

You see somebody with a gun and see the respect and awe they bring. You see people swearing without any consequence and you see complete arseholes with beautiful girls on their arm. You're nice and polite to people, and yet you don't win the lottery, you haven't got the girl, loads of friends, a great car and nobody's paying you the attention you deserve.

How can it be? You've been lied to all this time. You've made it to your teenage years and only just now discovered that sometimes life kicks you in the balls. Nobody mentioned this, it all looked so easy.

You can't handle it. You get angry.

That is probably the clearest way I have heard anyone describe what might be happening!

Quote from durbster :

You can't handle it. You get angry.

Good thing there are decent informative movies though. First time I saw that movie I couldn't stop cackling with glee (<-- that word can stand on it's own as a sound effect when you smile and have a golden tooth).

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

There are pretty few nations in the history of the human race who could withstand that charge... your own obviously included. Not saying I disagree with the idea that there's something wrong at the core of American life, but I'd expand it to human life--just some undiagnosed factor in America that tends to bring it out more often.

As citizen of a Country which has enormous faults when dealing with human rights issues, I agree completely.
As a grandchildren of people who fought these enormous faults risking their lives, I agree completely.
As a simple observer of human facts, not unbiased because I don't live in the States, I agree completely.

But then, again, there's the problem you're raising: why more often in the States? Is the problem systemic? If yes, where does it have its dark beginning? And, more important, is this just a symptom of something bigger?

Quote from Albieg :

But then, again, there's the problem you're raising: why more often in the States? Is the problem systemic? If yes, where does it have its dark beginning? And, more important, is this just a symptom of something bigger?

I've probably mentioned this before, but this 2004 article from Time Magazine sort of has an interesting look into, what in my mind at least, seems to be a reflection or result of the same issue. Of course the author is more focused on the bipolar political system, but still he puts a finger on a lot of what appears to be built-in feature of the whole underlying culture. But hey, what would I know anyway? I'm half-way around the globe from there.

EDIT:
Thing is, when I asked "why am I half-way around the globe from where I was born" the answer was "that was not a good place to raise a child" - seems like my folks knew what they were talking about...

Panem et circenses, xaotik. I suppose I have no need to translate.

As you do, I won't look for political responsibility of the higher echelon. The higher echelon, in modern democracies, is just an expression of abilities and inabilities of the people who choose their leaders: the leaders are just us when we reach power, and thus they are perfectly representative. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a democracy...

Yeah, a unique american problem...
http://www.chron.com/disp/stor ... adline/world/5547115.html
This is why I totally agree with Euros not having any guns, you know they have this show here called max x. it's a stupid home video show. but in it is a lot of videos showing violent youth confrontations with police for whatever reason... If they had the same access to firearms as we do.... man. at least most of our little screw-ups are confined to lone gunmen and a few people he's pissed at.
Oh and at shotglass... you know our racist groups are devolving into prison gangs and mentally challenged thugs... aren't y'alls trying to make a political comeback?

and did you ever get my PM?

Aussies and aboriginals... Hank do you know any thing about a story I heard concerning a stolen lawnmower over there?

I don't know who it was that suggested banning assault weapons,
we tried that to some degree. it didn't work a bit. besides you just gotta experience the full effect of firing a thompson
What's probably going to happen is they are going to start implementing security measures that are similar to what's in place in
most of our inner city type schools. LOL i wonder what would happen if they (colleges and unis) made them wear school uniforms and enforced "zero tolerance" policies on them? I bet that would go over like a lead balloon.

If the assumption in that article is true, I don't think it were Danish Danes that got arrested...
The problem in Denmark right now is two years ago (I think it's already two years ago?) they published a cartoon. The whole muslim world seemed to find it a personal attack and found it necessary to burn flags and act kinda silly about it. Just recently (I think it was..) the artist that made the cartoon just escaped death. Two muslims tried to kill him. So now every newspaper published the cartoon again. Which angered a lot of people again apparently.

So in Denmark I would call it riots, not random killings. We've seen this in Paris last year also.

And on the theme of those cartoons: Get a life, it's a cartoon, nobody cares... There are a lot more cartoons out there that are far worse. They just don't get published in a paper, but they're there.

And the fact muslims tried to kill the artist just kinda proves his cartoon as truth.

Quote from durbster :

Being a uniquely American problem, I think it's fair to assume that it's something deep in the American system that's at fault. A lot of countries have civilians that are armed (don't the Swiss have more guns per person?), so it's not simply a matter of having guns, it's how they're treated.

Anyway, the gun discussions have been done to death so I won't go there. Personally I think part of the problem is the paranoid censorship that America seems to cherish. US tv and films are the best example of this, where anything considered a threat is blurred all swearing or even a hint of a mention of horrible things like drugs is muted.

So kids grow up watching this fantasy world, where nobody swears, everybody who does bad things dies (usually gets shot ), and the ending is always happy. Drugs are bad, guns are bad, swearing is bad, being angry is bad, being nice will bring you all you need.

And then you grow up and discover the real world. You meet people who do drugs and find that they're not suffering horribly, in fact it's like some of them are having a great time. How can it be!?

You see somebody with a gun and see the respect and awe they bring. You see people swearing without any consequence and you see complete arseholes with beautiful girls on their arm. You're nice and polite to people, and yet you don't win the lottery, you haven't got the girl, loads of friends, a great car and nobody's paying you the attention you deserve.

How can it be? You've been lied to all this time. You've made it to your teenage years and only just now discovered that sometimes life kicks you in the balls. Nobody mentioned this, it all looked so easy.

You can't handle it. You get angry.

Sorry for multiple posts...

That's not really it, we do know the difference between fantasy and reality - at least most of us . everything is "censored" simply to avoid lawsuits and bad publicity generated from criminal defendants in court cases all over. imilar to why they censor things in this very forum.

I wonder if there are similarities between school shooters and suicide bombers. It appears that both are trying to make an extreme statement out of desperation, I wonder what common factors these individuals might have had

Quote from durbster :

A lot of countries have civilians that are armed (don't the Swiss have more guns per person?), so it's not simply a matter of having guns, it's how they're treated.

the difference is the swis arent armed because the want to be and think they need the protection so you wont see any swiss walking down the streets carrying a gun

Quote from Racer Y :

Oh and at shotglass... you know our racist groups are devolving into prison gangs and mentally challenged thugs... aren't y'alls trying to make a political comeback?

not trying to they are
voted into parliament by a bunch of mentally challenged thugs that are frustrated at life in the ex ddr where there are no jobs and no women since those are smart enough to move to where the jobs are at (which leads to a very obvious choice of career for those women that decide to stay)
thats the blanked statement version of it anyway ie the one youre used to from me and that i am therefore supposed to deliver

Quote from Racer Y :

and did you ever get my PM?

i did and i enjoyed reading it
there just didnt seem to be much of a point in answering... it very much could stand on its own

Quote from Racer Y :

I wonder if there are similarities between school shooters and suicide bombers. It appears that both are trying to make an extreme statement out of desperation, I wonder what common factors these individuals might have had

and they do it without even requiring the promise of a whole bunch of virgins
maybe al quaida should start recruiting in american schools their accounting department must be reluctant to pay for all the virgins

Quote from Shotglass :

so you wont see any swiss walking down the streets carrying a gun

Unless they're on duty.

Quote from Shotglass :

their accounting department must be reluctant to pay for all the virgins

It's okay - the R&D* department took care of the actual need to pay up for those.

* Raiment & Detonation

And where does it say that those virgins are female?

Besides don't you americans hog all the credit for school shooting! Even we in Finland have had ours!

Quote from xaotik :

It's okay - the R&D* department took care of the actual need to pay up for those.

* Raiment & Detonation

theyve decided to bomb nunneries now?

Quote from durbster :

Being a uniquely American problem, I think it's fair to assume that it's something deep in the American system that's at fault. A lot of countries have civilians that are armed (don't the Swiss have more guns per person?), so it's not simply a matter of having guns, it's how they're treated.

Anyway, the gun discussions have been done to death so I won't go there. Personally I think part of the problem is the paranoid censorship that America seems to cherish. US tv and films are the best example of this, where anything considered a threat is blurred all swearing or even a hint of a mention of horrible things like drugs is muted.

So kids grow up watching this fantasy world, where nobody swears, everybody who does bad things dies (usually gets shot ), and the ending is always happy. Drugs are bad, guns are bad, swearing is bad, being angry is bad, being nice will bring you all you need.

And then you grow up and discover the real world. You meet people who do drugs and find that they're not suffering horribly, in fact it's like some of them are having a great time. How can it be!?

You see somebody with a gun and see the respect and awe they bring. You see people swearing without any consequence and you see complete arseholes with beautiful girls on their arm. You're nice and polite to people, and yet you don't win the lottery, you haven't got the girl, loads of friends, a great car and nobody's paying you the attention you deserve.

How can it be? You've been lied to all this time. You've made it to your teenage years and only just now discovered that sometimes life kicks you in the balls. Nobody mentioned this, it all looked so easy.

You can't handle it. You get angry.

I think the America you're describing doesn't exist.

There is certainly a lot of censorship and nannying, but it's mainly in the media and mostly ineffective. There are religious groups who take it more seriously than others, but they're a drastic minority (as they are in most countries). No one is (or at least very few people are) oblivious to drugs, sex, violence growing up. I don't think the US government is the only government in the world to condemn drug use, antisocial behavior, etc. Having grown up in a fairly average American household myself, I feel like I have a pretty good perspective on what it's like growing up in middle America.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

I think the America you're describing doesn't exist.

There is certainly a lot of censorship and nannying, but it's mainly in the media and mostly ineffective...

No actually, it's very effective. If it wasn't for all the censorship that goes on in the media today, I think it would be safe to say that Bush would NOT have been reelected.

[quote=Shotglass;710761

not trying to they are
voted into parliament by a bunch of mentally challenged thugs that are frustrated at life in the ex ddr where there are no jobs and no women since those are smart enough to move to where the jobs are at (which leads to a very obvious choice of career for those women that decide to stay)
thats the blanked statement version of it anyway ie the one youre used to from me and that i am therefore supposed to deliver.........




and they do it without even requiring the promise of a whole bunch of virgins
maybe al quaida should start recruiting in american schools their accounting department must be reluctant to pay for all the virgins[/quote]

What scares me is that this presidential year, no matter who wins, there are going to be more than a few people disgruntled over who gets elected and our little hate mongers here in the US will do or attempt to do the same thing.

Also, I can see the possibility of Al Queda or any other such group successfully recruiting off of college campuses.

hmmm... maybe in this age of instant gratification, the pressures generated from this (like NOT getting your cheeseburger on time to getting rejected for a job post) adds up in some people that can't handle the strain. If that's the case, then we're pretty much screwed. I don't see this instant gratification mentality changing anytime soon.