Quote from wabbit :

yeah go the FF dragging

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1rqHcYnzE0

Yep, just shows what a complete joke FF drifting is

When you see in car the handbrake is on 90+% of the time and the rears are just locked up most of the time. The RWD leaves him for dust when it leads the twin and blast pasts him when starting behind in the second.

FF just can't hold speed and just looks stupid. As I said earlier Apples and cheese, they do not compare

anyways i love the xfg its my favorite car, because its not only very handsome but it has many upgrades in texture (lights,tecture, etc) but its a great car for racing,some drifting SOME, and of course the best rally.

Quote from Driftfun :

this spr is not good for a FWD..

why don't you make a spr? I know you can borrow a Lic

Than, I would like to know how many people had watch the spr & video?

drift= power oversteer...

even awd can't do this, you need pure RWD power and have nothing interfere

Quote from atlantian :

even awd can't do this, you need pure RWD power and have nothing interfere

What if that AWD had 1% of power transmitted to front wheels and 99% back? Wouldn't it be able to power oversteer? Or how about ratios like 20% or 25% front?

Quote from Woz :

Yep, just shows what a complete joke FF drifting is

When you see in car the handbrake is on 90+% of the time and the rears are just locked up most of the time. The RWD leaves him for dust when it leads the twin and blast pasts him when starting behind in the second.

FF just can't hold speed and just looks stupid. As I said earlier Apples and cheese, they do not compare

Thank you I'm glad someone understood what i was going on about. When i first watched that video, i even felt sorry for the guy... the amount of laughing from the Judges.

Drift = oversteer under contral

Quote from frokki :

What if that AWD had 1% of power transmitted to front wheels and 99% back? Wouldn't it be able to power oversteer? Or how about ratios like 20% or 25% front?

IMO it is possible to drift with AWD. Maybe i have this opinion because when i started to drift in LFS, it was common that people used the RB4 for drifting aswell. However, i believe that RWD is the only "true way" of drifting.

Nevertheless... AWD can drift!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... XQtnI&feature=related

Quote from frokki :

What if that AWD had 1% of power transmitted to front wheels and 99% back? Wouldn't it be able to power oversteer? Or how about ratios like 20% or 25% front?

Doesn't matter. AWD can and do drift. Of course having more torque at the rear wheels makes it easier, but it can also be performed in cars with 50-50 torque distribution as well. You just need to apply the right technique.

Furthermore, drifting isn't just power oversteer. It is controlled oversteer (controlled meaning with intent and purpose, not accidental). Saying "drift = power oversteer" is like saying "football = soccer"; it is a contrived limitation on something that has a much wider meaning. Drifting can include handbrake turns, powerslides, and controlled power-oversteer; just as football can include rugby, gridiron, and soccer.

Example1 (Gigi Galli drifting a Group N Lancer Evo): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewxrNSOKFow

Example2 (mostly AWD, some FWD, and some RWD): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3lOlt7j_yw

Example3 (Carlos Sainz in a Subaru Impreza tarmac test): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGRqjuLg7DY

^^ I 100% agree with you three

Quote from frokki :

What if that AWD had 1% of power transmitted to front wheels and 99% back? Wouldn't it be able to power oversteer? Or how about ratios like 20% or 25% front?

that's a little extreme, but a rear biased awd can oversteer, but the thing is, any front wheel drive power will pull the car straight... so you will need to neutral slide, a drift is where the front wheels are GRIPPING TIGHT and the rear wheels are oversteering, a neutral slide oversteer is a rally slide, not drifting... drifting is an official term nowadays.

but, for awd, don't you notice, that the front wheels don't follow (are parallel to) the race line? it's more like a point behind the front wheels(center of gravity) that means, that the front wheels are loose, and it's neutral sliding

Yep, AWD can drift.

The real distinction comes with FWD. It might fall under the name "drift" taken in the literal sense but it just looks like a wanabe trying to be like the people with cars that CAN drift properly

FWIW: The only drifting competition regulations that I can find online allow FWD cars and do not specify the need for the car to be RWD. The only requirement is that no car can be AWD.

I think it's worth mentioning that the majority of people who say "z0mg drifitng is for rwd only!!!111oneoneone" have little-no experience with cars, let alone drifting.

^what ever, it's not drifting

just to make this clear, i am not making this argument because i have an FR, but i have an AWD, i call it rally slides, not drift; drift is an exclusive term describing a power slide done by RWD's, in which case, the front wheels grip and the rear wheels are loose, and the car is controlled by the throttle. i have asked about this on drift forums, trying to justify FF and AWD drifts, but no, they can do slides, but not like the RWD cars.

Quote from atlantian :

^what ever, it's not drifting

just to make this clear, i am not making this argument because i have an FR, but i have an AWD, i call it rally slides, not drift; drift is an exclusive term describing a power slide done by RWD's, in which case, the front wheels grip and the rear wheels are loose, and the car is controlled by the throttle. i have asked about this on drift forums, trying to justify FF and AWD drifts, but no, they can do slides, but not like the RWD cars.

This is where people are split on the definition, then. I don't think a power slide is a drift personally, but I accept that these power slides are virtually all you see in d1 style drift competitions. I think to an extent the meaning has been mutated by this "drift" culture. It's a term that goes back a lot further than the drift scene, and certainly didn't simply mean "to spin the rear wheels and maintain a wild oversteer angle through a corner", it was, and still is (to me) something much more subtle and elegant.

yes it does stem back a long time, it's just that drifting is now COINED an official term, it's just back then, powerslides, drifts, skids are all synonymous to each other, and it doesn't make a difference, now, drifting is an official sport, "drift" is now different from it's peers

Quote from atlantian :

^what ever, it's not drifting

just to make this clear, i am not making this argument because i have an FR, but i have an AWD, i call it rally slides, not drift; drift is an exclusive term describing a power slide done by RWD's, in which case, the front wheels grip and the rear wheels are loose, and the car is controlled by the throttle. i have asked about this on drift forums, trying to justify FF and AWD drifts, but no, they can do slides, but not like the RWD cars.

You need to clarify your definition of drifting. To me, it's maximizing slip angle and speed while trying to stick to a certain line through a course.

It would seem that you're talking about powersliding, which is part of the driving technique for RWD racing, not just drifting.

edit:

Quote from atlantian :

yes it does stem back a long time, it's just that drifting is now COINED an official term, it's just back then, powerslides, drifts, skids are all synonymous to each other, and it doesn't make a difference, now, drifting is an official sport, "drift" is now different from it's peers

If you're going to say that drifting is an "official sport," I would like to remind you what I said about competitions allowing FWD cars.

http://www.d1gp.com/index.php? ... w&id=45&Itemid=62
Participating Vehicles:
1.) Only FR, RR, FF and MR drive-trains (two wheel drive cars) are allowed.
- AWD to RWD conversions are permitted.
- FWD to RWD conversions are permitted

what?!?! how was i not clear? do i have to highlight everything for you?!

IT IS GRIPPING THE ROAD AND FOLLOWING THE RACE LINE WITH YOUR FRONT WHEELS, WHILE YOU ARE SLIDING WITH THE REAR WHEELS, WHILE HAVING THE ABILITY TO CONTROL THE SLIP ANGLE WITH YOUR THROTTLE.

Quote from atlantian :

what?!?! how was i not clear? do i have to highlight everything for you?!

IT IS GRIPPING THE ROAD AND FOLLOWING THE RACE LINE WITH YOUR FRONT WHEELS, WHILE YOU ARE SLIDING WITH THE REAR WHEELS, WHILE HAVING THE ABILITY TO CONTROL THE SLIP ANGLE WITH YOUR THROTTLE.

Last I checked, you can control slip angle with the throttle of a FWD car It reduces the angle but you're still controlling it (works with your words)

If you're going to say that drifting is an "official sport," I would like to remind you what I said about competitions allowing FWD cars.

http://www.d1gp.com/index.php? ... w&id=45&Itemid=62
Participating Vehicles:
1.) Only FR, RR, FF and MR drive-trains (two wheel drive cars) are allowed.
- AWD to RWD conversions are permitted.
- FWD to RWD conversions are permitted

^edit:
IT IS GRIPPING THE ROAD AND FOLLOWING THE RACE LINE WITH YOUR FRONT WHEELS, WHILE YOU ARE SLIDING WITH THE REAR WHEELS, WHILE HAVING THE ABILITY TO CONTROL THE [REAR WHEEL'S] SLIP ANGLE WITH YOUR THROTTLE.

and as far as regulations go, i have no idea how D1 allows FF's (that's preposterous)

Quote :

Engine/Transmission:
A) Engine and transmission modifications are free.
B) Engine and radiator catch tanks with a minimum capacity of one (1) quart each are required and securely fastened.
C) Engine, transmission and cooling system must free of leaks, fluid leaks will not be tolerated
D) All vehicles must be rear-wheel drive. Drive train may be modified, but must push power from the rear wheels.

http://www.drifting.com/Formula_Drift.php

Quote from atlantian :

^edit:
IT IS GRIPPING THE ROAD AND FOLLOWING THE RACE LINE WITH YOUR FRONT WHEELS, WHILE YOU ARE SLIDING WITH THE REAR WHEELS, WHILE HAVING THE ABILITY TO CONTROL THE [REAR WHEEL'S] SLIP ANGLE WITH YOUR THROTTLE.

I don't see why you can't do that in a fwd car. It's more difficult and complex, which is why very few people do it, but it is possible.

You have to contort your definition so much to try to make it work. Doesn't really make me feel confident that you know what you're talking about.

Quote from luftrofl :

I don't see why you can't do that in a fwd car. It's more difficult and complex, which is why very few people do it, but it is possible.

You have to contort your definition so much to try to make it work. Doesn't really make me feel confident that you know what you're talking about.

*sigh* you CAN'T change the SLIP ANGLE on the rear wheels of an FF with your throttle.

Quote from atlantian :

*sigh* you CAN'T change the SLIP ANGLE on the rear wheels of an FF with your throttle.

If you have enough grip on the front wheels, yes you can.

Be less like nearly every LFS drifter that I meet by being more open-minded, it's less frustrating and doesn't make you look like a dumb kid who doesn't drift IRL.

It's worth mentioning that I don't think that FWD is any good at drifting, mainly because it's so difficult to accelerate while oversteering.

what? i have had experiences in these following drive types:
MRSW20(toyota)
RR911(porsche)
FRC24(Merc),IS250(lexus)
FFES300(lexus)
F4S60(volvo),2.5i(impreza)

what is so ignorant of me?

i can do it, and if it's not pure RWD, i call it a rally slide. period. i have had experiences defending AWD and FF drifting, but that is not a true drift, you can try to reason, as i have done, but you are going to get nowhere, since the TERM "drifting" refers to a slide of an FR

btw, is your insult of me being a kid a personal attack? how old are u anyways? it doesn't really matter how old i am...

Quote from atlantian :

what? i have had experiences in these following drive types:
MR
RR
FR
FF
F4

what is so ignorant of me?

i can do it, and if it's not pure RWD, i call it a rally slide. period. i have had experiences defending AWD and FF drifting, but that is not a true drift, you can try to reason, as i have done, but you are going to get nowhere, since the TERM "drifting" refers to a slide of an FR

btw, is your insult of me being a kid a personal attack? how old are u anyways? it doesn't really matter how old i am...

You say that "drifting" refers to FR only, but that's just what you think. Can you show me a rulebook or a statement made by someone who's qualified to make decisions such as this?
I gave you one that shows, if anything can be pulled from reading a rulebook, that FF can drift.

I'm only a couple years older than you so I can't call you a "kid" based on age, only actions. That said, when I said that I was referring to the general community of LFS drift-tastic idiots who are generally too young to drive but talk a LOT of smack because they spend 1823213 hours drifting in LFS.