Although it is good when you leave a server, and start the track that it has the same layout

but this poses a "threat" to the people that don't want to "release" their layout(s).

*shrugs*

-1

It's an occupational hazard.

And it has legit uses too.

DK

IF there's a legit use, why not just have the file sent to you over messenger?

Partially, I agree with Krammeh. Also, it would be nice that you could flag some skins, so they are "private" (And thus, not downloadable).

Yes, I have downloaded Live to Cruise -layouts (Property of Krammeh), but not to steal them. I felt that it is better to make setup for those layouts offline rather than online, causing massive crashes while learning braking points.

So, if people would like to have a layout for offline purposes, it would be much easier to get it this way (shift+u). And I do believe the power of ass-kicking if someone steals others layout.

Quote from Gekkibi :

Also, it would be nice that you could flag some skins, so they are "private" (And thus, not downloadable).

Guess what, not uploading them to LFSW fixes that. :rolleyes:

It would be nice if it was an option for skin uploads and layouts on servers to be private. And if you don't really care, it can be public

Quote from AndroidXP :

Guess what, not uploading them to LFSW fixes that. :rolleyes:

Yes, but then others wont see them. Doesn't matter me, as all skins I have made is completely public (Who would like to have those craps, anyway?). But some wants to keep their "team skins" private.

Oh, so you mean encryption of some sort? If somebody wanted your skin, they'd still get it, but it would be a bit harder I guess. Same goes for layouts, you cannot make them 100% steal-proof, but I reckon putting some sort of barrier in between would already stop 90% of the "thefts." Then again, I bet anybody who's enough of an idiot to want to steal a layout would also likely put some more effort into obtaining it, maybe even just because you put the barrier in.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Then again, I bet anybody who's enough of an idiot to want to steal a layout would also likely put some more effort into obtaining it, maybe even just because you put the barrier in.

Yeah, an encryption scheme like that feels about as futile as DRMed media. Motivated individuals WILL get around whatever measures you put in place, and that makes it a wasted effort even trying in my opinion.

How valuable can a layout be anyway? Aren't we going a bit over the top with this whole IP thing here?

Next thing we'll see...:

OH NOEZ, THAT GUY IS STEALING MY RACING LINE, CAN I MAKE SOME KIND OF WALL, SO IF HE DOES IT, IT EXPLODES HIM!?

Oh great, I can see it already... Hell... Handbasket.. Yayyyyy....

Please no DRM, encryption or other related shite in LFS to protect these files that are ultimatly pointless to protect.

People bitch and moan about the dev speed of LFS.

<sarcasm>Yes, lets add another really pointless feature and slow down dev/testing even further, that would be a great</sarcasm>

Is it REALLY a problem?

Nobody is charging money for their skin/layout so why else would you want the protection? If somebody that believes its required could they give a REAL reason why it is required and why all the dev work to protect them should be done?

To make some skins private -> Pointless, if someone really wants to get that skin, he will find a way.
To lock your front door -> Pointless, if someone really wants to get in, he will find a way.

But like I said, I don't mind if skins are "stealable".

+1
I'm all for it.
It's perfectly possible too, that anything marked as "private" simply gets deleted when you exit the server or close LFS. Skins, layouts, whatever. There would be ways round it, but it wouldn't be so easy.

I can appreciate that someone who spent hours on a layout ends up getting no credit when someone starts up a more successful server using it.

Quote from Dajmin :

There would be ways round it, but it wouldn't be so easy.

You mean like, alt-tabbing out of LFS and copying it before it gets deleted? That's not even trying...

That's one way. But then it could be buried as a temp file somewhere

Quote from Dajmin :

That's one way. But then it could be buried as a temp file somewhere

SysInternals 'FileMon' would sort that minor niggle out



Regards,

Ian

Ah, but you see it's getting harder

What if the layouts just weren't downloadable from LFS? No in-game option at all. I don't know if LFS saves the layout temporarily on your hard drive, but if it does, I'm sure it can be encrypted with a random generated key (64-bit or maybe even bigger) that LFS stores temporarily while the layout is in use, and then disposes of the key and the layout when you leave the server or the track changes. Sure, it could probably still be found by some sad individual with a lot of free time and a hex editor, but that is the most secure method that comes to my mind.

From my experience of encryption (which didn't go well in the end anyway :razz, that shouldn't take too long to implement and would keep those who want layouts private happy. If you want other people to have your layout, it could still be released outside LFS, through MSN or the forums...

As for skin stealing, the best solution is to write your name on it. Then if someone steals it, your name is on it Of course, it can be photoshopped out or whatever, but like above, someone would want to really be bored to bother doing that...and those people don't really have any friends to show the skin to anyway, so they don't really matter

Quote from Dajmin :

Ah, but you see it's getting harder

heh, not really.. that was just an example

In reality, unless Scawen wanted to piss a lot of people off, a temp file can only be located in a small number of dirs.. I wouldn't expect (or be happy) to find it written to my Adobe Photoshop dir for a silly example. FileMon would just make it quicker

"Useless discussion" (not meant derogatory) really. For example, ISI offer encrypted meshes for mods (that apparently has unwanted side effects according to their lame excuse for eventually not including this as planned in the MAS tool) yet that has been stripped and models are still being ripped. Granted, now we are talking about things away from n00b fingers, but just generally in regards to the topic. Heck, closer to home.. even LFS' main encryption has been broken (or at least, worked around) with cracks / keygens available.. again just another example of something you can warrant including protection for, but has been ultimately "useless" like all protection systems (although it does keep the wanabee h4><0rz (read: script kiddies) at bay).



Regards,

Ian

Quote from Dajmin :

Ah, but you see it's getting harder

Yeah, but then you have this stupid arms race going. Who will outsmart whom? The one with the most resources (free time) basically, and that won't be Scawen. And all that for an autocross layout?

Security through obscurity just doesn't work.

You can even 'steal' it with Shift+U, so I don't care.

So you are all happy for Scawen to piss around trying various DRM (Will ALWAYS FAIL) system trying to protect this crap.

You are also happy to have to re-download "private" skins and layout EVERY time you connect to a server. i can't wait.

So if you are on a server with 20 cars and your connection drops you will have to re-download 40 skins again (helmets and cars). That is pure BS.

<sarcasm>Scawen: We the undersigned would like you to delay S3 and implement crap breakable DRM like systems for skins and layout</sarcasm>

sigh

Skins shouldn't be made unsaveable. That's just a waste of everyone's time. (Except, ironically, the person who made the skin :razz

Layout protection however, could be useful. Using something similar to C#'s Rijndael encryption methods (without really knowing with what LFS is coded in, and compiled in), it could easily be implemented in less than a week.

Layout protection is useful for more than cruise servers who want their layouts private, it could also be used in league situations, where people have to come onto the server to practice. I'm sure there are other reasons too...

anyway...who want to steal low res 512x512 skins i have already take a skin(not private) from there and it look like sh!t ingame!

Ah but for those of us with hi-res it ain't too bad