The way the cars feel was and has always been " the business" for me.

I don't want more cars, tracks or DX10 Bling , I want packed servers occupied with drivers who actually give a damn if they hit another driver.

How do you code for that?

Quote from JohnPenn :

The way the cars feel was and has always been " the business" for me.

I don't want more cars, tracks or DX10 Bling , I want packed servers occupied with drivers who actually give a damn if they hit another driver.

How do you code for that?

AI

Well u can't have everything.
So many people complain about lower standard graphics ,or the lifeless feel of LFS ,or this or that.
Then when alot of work is put in improving the graphics (new SO, adding AA/Af and so on) and adding little things that are NEEDED to make LFS grow into the future. U get the same people complaining about the opposite stuff.."we need new tracks ,new cars " ; "these are worthless patches because i don't see an immediate improvement to my gameplay " and so on.

LFs is a title made by a few people so it will never release a completely reworked physics and graphics engine yearly (and i wouldnt even call those games new anyhow..just rehashed)
But it is made to last years and years so sometimes work has to be done that improves the engine ; adds new playerbases (languagepatches) or simply stuff that we never even think about.

Yes players will lose interest and move off..but that doesn't mean LFS is being lowered into it's coffin as long as new players are still joining and mainly as long as the devs don't abandon the project.
I'm sure many of the people who now complain and leave will be back once another major content patch is out.

I myself have lost interest in LFS often over the years (either due to time or other games grabbing my attention)..but that didnt stop me from comming back after 3-6months each time and fully enjoying the game again. Right now i haven't played it since early january ,and even then i was barely touching it for 6months before that.
But i still follow the development and I definitely haven't scrapped it as a game i will play again in the future (even if my wheel is packed and stored in the attic atm), possibly even sometime soon as a group of friends recently started playing again and are bugging me to join them. Or if i don't rejoin them..i'm sure i'll launch LFS again when the next major patch hits the testforum..AND have lots of fun racing people even if i know the tracks and cars.
(did shumacher or any racer ever get bored of racing? even if they were in the same car ,driving the same tracks for 15years?)

I'm sort of in the same boat as hisnameiskevin. I guess I got over driving the same cars & tracks all the time, encountering the same behaviour, regardless of the server I was on. Not really a slight on LFS' quality, just a shift in my own focus. Haven't raced online in 12 months and haven't felt the need to - even the great improvements of Patch Y and the FBM weren't enough to get me back in there (certainly the early lack of setups - and setup skill on my own part - contributed there too). Can't even be bothered hotlapping and customising other peoples' sets these days, which I used to spend ages doing. My old favourite GPL, with 540+ tracks and four whole seasons' worth of 1960s F1 cars, hasn't had a look in for many months either. So, a personal shift of focus (loads more PS2 time these days, band's making an album) combined with LFS' stately pace has led me to back off quite a bit. Again, not a complaint, but it'll take something pretty substantial to get me back into racing LFS. Hell, maybe I'm just over simracing altogether

Quote from Noccy :

did shumacher or any racer ever get bored of racing? even if they were in the same car ,driving the same tracks for 15years?

I've never been bothered with new content (tracks/cars) too much, infact I find it frustrating how it pulls all the attention for the first few months reducing activity on the combos I like

I'm much more excited about imrpoved gameplay (grip on racing line, improved physics, etc) this is what gives and will give LFS the edge, not tracks and cars

Well I do have to agree that development speed is... well rather leisurely these days.

Scawen has given his reasons for this, and many congratulations to him on his beautiful little girl. It's up to us whether we accept these reasons or not.

Personally, I both do and don't. I can accept that serious physics improvements, such as ground force/undertray aerodynamics and engine damage and aero damage are major projects that require research and careful implementation. It's understandable that these are saved for major reworks of the physics stuff. It's understandable that kids and family are also a priority. He'd be daft to ignore his kids in favour of sitting infront of a screen for 12 hours a day.

What's not understandable is still waiting for GTR interiors, finalised S2 car models, and the obvious lack of new content. I know we all paid up for S2 Alpha knowing what the content was. And some of us paid for S1 Alpha knowing what the content was, and we didn't get anything new except the MRT until S2. I suspect the same will be true this time around too. But something is needed to rejuvenate the game.

I've taken quite a break from LFS recently, but have also started racing again in the past couple of weeks. The break has done me good and refreshed my appetite for driving LFS, but jeez... the tracks aren't half feeling tired these days. Same old Aston, the most used environment of all... same old Fern Bay that we've had for so many years now and feels really quite dated... refreshed Blackwood is a bonus, but rather than refreshing existing tracks, can't we also have a new one? And I agree with the comments that no way can it take a talented graphical artist like Eric this long to finalise the new interiors. There's either something else in the pipeline, or he's working on other projects.

LFS still feels the best, and yes I enjoy driving it, but I also can't help but wonder where we're going. If we were to get radiator and engine temp damage (which will have a revolutionary impact on online play), an improved engine/mechanical damage model in general, refined aero simulation, more realistic consequences of tyre temperature, and a new track environment, then I reckon you could put a stamp on S2 and call it "final". I'll live without shinier graphics or a half dozen new cars or day/night transitions or dynamic weather - they can wait until S3 as long as we get some core upgrades and a new track environment soon.

John Penn asked for packed servers with clean drivers. True, you can't code for that. But I bet a lot of the 'old timers' have fallen by the wayside due to lack of new content and features, to be replaced by newer, younger drivers. And newer, youngr drivers by definition have less racecraft, less experience and less anticipation thna the guys that started driving LFS five years ago.

I do think that new features are coming. It just takes a long time for one guy to code them. And we either need to accept that or go play something else, no matter how many of these threads pop up (which is a shame, as for example if an audio/visual specialist were added to the LFS dev team, it would free Scawen to concentrate solely on the physics and racing side of things). As for new content, your guess is a good as mine....

i really wish i could know what scavier is REALLY doing behind scenes... luckily i'm busy with "life" right now, but i do hurt a bit inside for lfs to take another substantial step forward.

The slow development pace can be blamed on Scawen refusing to expand the number of developers. I know all about the mythical man month and adding programmers to a project, but adding one other competent person to handle the more mundane things like working on the AA/AF support would leave Scawen to work on more interesting updates and probably more than double the progress. Not to be too critical of Scawen when he obviously knows what he is doing but how does anyone benefit at all from such a long development cycle?

I too have taken a long break from LFS, hopefully new tracks and content(1 new layout in how long?) will come sometime and I will be interested again.

I'm thinking along the same lines as STROBE.

The simple fact of the matter is that anything in life, no matter how good, gets boring after awhile. What we really need is bigger changes than we've been seeing lately. I'm sure I speak not only for myself when I say that things like "realistic clutch modeling" are great, but are only a BIG DEAL when not much else has come around lately. It's time for something MAJOR. I'm tired of pretending that these tiny improvements are making a HUGE difference just to keep myself excited.

I'd be surprised if Scawen didn't get depressed after reading this thread.

Jees, I thought the title of this thread read 'Another Niall in the coffin' I thought he'd commited hari kari at the thought of having to face us in the eTM

Meh and on topic LFS is fine the way it is really, in my opinion anyway. I've been playing for a year solid and there are still many combos I haven't got round to trying and I'm still learning how to set the cars up properly. I suppose for you long timers some add ons would be nice though.

With most of the other popular sims there are just too many mods, tracks and stuff to choose from and the general buggering about to get anything working properly can be a pain, not to mention the online being rather a lot behind LFS IMO.

Quote from Aiden McGeady :

I'd be surprised if Scawen didn't get depressed after reading this thread.

LOL!

scawen we love you!

Quote from Gabkicks :

i really wish i could know what scavier is REALLY doing behind scenes... luckily i'm busy with "life" right now, but i do hurt a bit inside for lfs to take another substantial step forward.

I'm in the same boat here. I've had such a 'sabbatical' from racing at the moment that when I do actually get a chance to race LFS I'll be learning from scratch again (mostly because I'll go full sim with the G25 ).

I'd love to see more progress and know what is going on, but my personal circumstance makes it a lot easier to deal with the pace of development. I'm sure all you younger guys with more time on your hands are really suffering! I know I would be (Actually I'd probably go ride my bike instead :P )

I'm very happy with how LFS has been developed and I always feel that these threads blow things out of proportion - it REALLY wasn't that long since we got the FBMW which IMO was a substantial amount of work.

I'm happy to wait, but at the same time I have an inkling that the devs have a fair amount of stuff that we should see in the not to distant future.

Quote from mrbogeyman :

I'm sure all you younger guys with more time on your hands are really suffering! I know I would be

Hmm I think that is what these types of threads really highlight

I'm one that has to fight to get time to even fire up LFS

Quote from Glenn67 :

Hmm I think that is what these types of threads really highlight

I'm one that has to fight to get time to even fire up LFS

I can't play due to being out of the UK without my own PC! Otherwise I'd be playing all the time!

I have three kids myself 5-8-16 and its bloody hard to find time for a quick race let alone code the sim itself so i understand the process..

But when i do grab a bit of me time i dont want to drive the same tired tracks and cars with a lot of the same faults that have been there year after year (year after year is a statement in itself)

LFS still smokes everything else but shit its tired and if i not off the mark alot of its user base are tired too.

Far out even an old dunger of a game like GTL looks and sounds better.

The GTR cockpits cant take that long can they?


Theres only so much work a few guys can do and i totally appreciate what they have created , and being a father i understand totally that time is hard to find.

Time to get some help , I for one will be more than happy to pay extra for a finished product.

I dont see lfs dying,just the dev team is small,and they have a life too.I never seen any simulator that can make me love it for years,i've never found it boring,and when racing action was slow,i been drifting,drifting can be very fun when you find your best partner in twin,i just love to see the guy is 5 cm to me sideways at 150 with the big smoke following us

I don't understand why do people talk about this subject, since it's about the only thing in the developement that the community can't affect. I have lots of faith in what's LFS going to be, and concerning it's realistic and transparent physics it will be the number one sim long from now on even if they stopped or slowed down the developement.

One of LFS's good sides for me is just the slow developement pace. You can have a one year brake and miss nothing. Do that in any other sim or game, and the players are already gone, or moved to next year's version of the game.

I was thinking this just yesterday, although I am not sure I would have used the term "another nail in the coffin".............

I would imagine that Scawen's priority now, and in the near future would be his family, and quite rightly, but what this does for the LFS development is probably not good.

It's widely known that a large portion of the "old school" community are growing tired of LFS, I haven't played for a while, and to be honest, have no interest in doing so for quite a while.

I don't know what it will take, if anything, but it does feel like the rot has set in, sure, LFS is what is is, and it will always be a top notch sim, but it needs more to keep peoples interest, if people start getting disinterested, then servers become quieter, and more and more people get disinterested, it's a slippery spiral.

First off what coffin? What the heck !! ? This is his job after all right? Anyway I wouldn't be surprised if scawen and lfs aren't INSPIRED! Flame away guys but this is just being selfish..

Now that he has another mouth to feed maybe LFS will be made more into a mainstream game to get more bread on the table.

Satisfying those ricers, drifters and cruisers might bring in more money.

Quote from March Hare :

maybe LFS will be made more into a mainstream game to get more bread on the table

My god please no :vomit:

I don't think most people really have a problem with how long LFS is taking to develop. So long as we can see progress then all is OK.

I really don't think Scawen's side of things is what people are really complaining about. There are often test patches about and he's discussing what he's working on. With any game, lots of the cool stuff gets added quite quickly, and fairly early on. With S2 nearing final, we're now in the nitty gritty of spending a lot of time adding unexctiting features.

I think it's Eric's side that raises questions, although I do think (hope?) it's mostly a case of so much work not being released. Now of course extra cars take time to model and nobody can deny how much attention to detail has been put into South City now. This is all great. It's just not 2 years work. So long as the work justifies the time spent, nobody can complain.

In reality though, nobody can complain about anything, if Scawen wants a quiet year to raise his kids, it's entirely up to him. We pay and play but there were no promises and Scawen's the one running the business who needs to worry about keeping the product alive. Judging by the graphs I posted not so long ago, there are plenty of new players still coming in for whom things feel fresh. Also we have no idea what Eric's personal life is like, since he likes to keep things private. He could have two kids too for all we know!

Just avoid yourself burning out, find something else to do. I'm still involved with LFS a lot, I'm just rarely behind my wheel (and my driving is beginning no suffer badly for it now), but when something exciting comes along and I'm not busying myself with other things, I'll be back for some more good times.

Quote from Bob Smith :

I don't think most people really have a problem with how long LFS is taking to develop. So long as we can see progress then all is OK.

I really don't think Scawen's side of things is what people are really complaining about. There are often test patches about and he's discussing what he's working on. With any game, lots of the cool stuff gets added quite quickly, and fairly early on. With S2 nearing final, we're now in the nitty gritty of spending a lot of time adding unexctiting features.

I think it's Eric's side that raises questions, although I do think (hope?) it's mostly a case of so much work not being released. Now of course extra cars take time to model and nobody can deny how much attention to detail has been put into South City now. This is all great. It's just not 2 years work. So long as the work justifies the time spent, nobody can complain.

In reality though, nobody can complain about anything, if Scawen wants a quiet year to raise his kids, it's entirely up to him. We pay and play but there were no promises and Scawen's the one running the business who needs to worry about keeping the product alive. Judging by the graphs I posted not so long ago, there are plenty of new players still coming in for whom things feel fresh. Also we have no idea what Eric's personal life is like, since he likes to keep things private. He could have two kids too for all we know!

Just avoid yourself burning out, find something else to do. I'm still involved with LFS a lot, I'm just rarely behind my wheel (and my driving is beginning no suffer badly for it now), but when something exciting comes along and I'm not busying myself with other things, I'll be back for some more good times.

Great post Bob, much more elequently put than I could ever put it

It pretty much mirrors my feelings.

Ok, where to begin...

I knew the title would provoke alot of people. I am in no way implying that Nicole is to 'blame' for the decline of LFS. The slow development cycle is. I am a father. I love my children, and I want to spend as much time with them as I can. I am absolutely certain Scawen is a wonderful father as well, and will want to spend time too. So the development time will get further reduced. This is in no way the children's fault. It's not Scawen's fault. It's just the way it is. Less development means less interest.

And regarding content, I'm not so sure it's a lack of content either. To me LFS is just static. Always the same weather, always the same temperature, always the same everything. With other completed games I get changing temperatures that affect my grip, my engine cooling and hence my driving. I get changing time of day that means I cannot use shadows as my brake marker, the added immersion from seeing the early morning long shadows when in practice, the midday sun in qualifying, the longer shadows as the race progress. My brakes will fade if I overuse them, my engine will overheat if I abuse it. And even the same track can feel totally different if it's a cold morning or a warm summer afternoon.

The LFS physics that's there is fine. The LFS tracks that are there is fine. There's just so many little things that are missing. It's static. The way you can tweak your setup to perfection is not a good thing, imo. It just show how static things are. People are whining when I run with wind on, because suddenly they have to take the second right at BL1 2kph slower than they use to and they can't adapt. Not a LFS flaw in itself, but the static conditions of LFS promote this behaviour.

We have tire flatspots, which are great. One incident under braking can make or break your race. That incident could make you have to ease off a little for a few laps. Great! More of that! What if we had brake temperatures modelled as well? Maybe for a track that's tough on brakes you'd have to ease off a little to cool your brakes. For the road cars this is a real problem, especially the way we drive the cars in LFS. I've never driven a real racecar, so I have no basis to say anything about them. I do know that even F1, the technological pinnacle of motorsports have brake trouble from time to time.

I'd be delighted if I was in a heated battle with my closest rival suddenly felt my car lurch, shudder and die due to an electrical problem. Because next time it could happen to my rival. Stuff happens in racing. Stuff very rarely happen in LFS...

Edit: Bob's post came while I was Writing this.
I agree with you Bob. It's now anyone's fault. It's just the way it is. I want to make it absolutely clear that I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I'd blame Scawen more if he didn't take time off with his baby and family.