This post is intended for those who, for whatever reason, still use an alternative control method to a wheel, those who already have a wheel will know where I am coming from anyway .
Here is the story, I have been playing race sims since I was in single figures, I think my first ever race "sim" was Chequered flag on the Spectrum 48K, I have played pretty much every racing sim since then, and love them all, a sim addict if you like.
I have always used either keyboard/joystick in the "early" days due to there being little else, or since the PS1 days, a dual analog pad, and I have always been reasonably happy with it, untill now.
In LFS I have always been a fair to middling driver, coming in halfway in the grid for most races never really in contention for the top spot.
A little under 2 weeks ago I was racing and practicing for the 2nd round of the ESL ERCC, racing an FXO and FE Gold, and I was struggling, I couldn't get a decent time or stay consistant as tyres were a problem, now I know racing thoery, I have raced IRL and was getting fed up with struggling, then comes the time to start practicing for the 3rd round, at SO Long REV, evil track, now I was getting REALLY frustrated, no matter what I could'nt get in the groove for this track, I was driving the breast's off the car but only managing a 1:57 and shreading the tyres in a matter of laps, then I cast my mind back to Fordman telling me to get a wheel, could it really make that much difference?.
Friday morning comes, sod it, I am getting a wheel, so a morning searching for the best price gets me a DFP for £65, had I done the right thing?.
The wheel comes, I set it up, start racing and then it hits me, arse, I am slower than before, and this FFB is a BIG dissapointment, I was getting more and more frustrated, but I told myself I would not go back to the pad, no way.
After many nights frustration I posted here about FFB, mainly in understeer conditions in FWD cars, got some feedback about setting the wheel up, which I followed, and after another try it was coming, every lap was getting better, I was finally surpassing my pad times and getting quicker.
Over the last 2 nights I have achieved a number of things in LFS that I never thought I could, firstly coming 1st in a 10 lap race with a grid of 20, I NEVER would have managed that with a pad, and I got a 1:53 on SO Long REV in the FXO, again another hurdle I never thought I'd get over, I can see 1:52 now aswell .
So why the long post about something most people know already you may ask?, well, I think that there are probably many people out there not getting the full potential out of LFS because they think there alternative control method is "good enough", its not, trust me, get a wheel, not only will your enjoyment increase, but you will become a LOT more competitive, for the sake of £65, its a no brainer to me.
Also, I should thank the people in the community that helped, to all those who suggested some nice settings in the thread I made about FFB and not just shouting me down, Fordman who originally said I should get one, and Sparkydave who has been a bit like a mentor over the last couple of weeks .

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

This post is intended for those who, for whatever reason, still use an alternative control method to a wheel, those who already have a wheel will know where I am coming from anyway .
Here is the story, I have been playing race sims since I was in single figures, I think my first ever race "sim" was Chequered flag on the Spectrum 48K, I have played pretty much every racing sim since then, and love them all, a sim addict if you like.
I have always used either keyboard/joystick in the "early" days due to there being little else, or since the PS1 days, a dual analog pad, and I have always been reasonably happy with it, untill now.
In LFS I have always been a fair to middling driver, coming in halfway in the grid for most races never really in contention for the top spot.
A little under 2 weeks ago I was racing and practicing for the 2nd round of the ESL ERCC, racing an FXO and FE Gold, and I was struggling, I couldn't get a decent time or stay consistant as tyres were a problem, now I know racing thoery, I have raced IRL and was getting fed up with struggling, then comes the time to start practicing for the 3rd round, at SO Long REV, evil track, now I was getting REALLY frustrated, no matter what I could'nt get in the groove for this track, I was driving the breast's off the car but only managing a 1:57 and shreading the tyres in a matter of laps, then I cast my mind back to Fordman telling me to get a wheel, could it really make that much difference?.
Friday morning comes, sod it, I am getting a wheel, so a morning searching for the best price gets me a DFP for £65, had I done the right thing?.
The wheel comes, I set it up, start racing and then it hits me, arse, I am slower than before, and this FFB is a BIG dissapointment, I was getting more and more frustrated, but I told myself I would not go back to the pad, no way.
After many nights frustration I posted here about FFB, mainly in understeer conditions in FWD cars, got some feedback about setting the wheel up, which I followed, and after another try it was coming, every lap was getting better, I was finally surpassing my pad times and getting quicker.
Over the last 2 nights I have achieved a number of things in LFS that I never thought I could, firstly coming 1st in a 10 lap race with a grid of 20, I NEVER would have managed that with a pad, and I got a 1:53 on SO Long REV in the FXO, again another hurdle I never thought I'd get over, I can see 1:52 now aswell .
So why the long post about something most people know already you may ask?, well, I think that there are probably many people out there not getting the full potential out of LFS because they think there alternative control method is "good enough", its not, trust me, get a wheel, not only will your enjoyment increase, but you will become a LOT more competitive, for the sake of £65, its a no brainer to me.
Also, I should thank the people in the community that helped, to all those who suggested some nice settings in the thread I made about FFB and not just shouting me down, Fordman who originally said I should get one, and Sparkydave who has been a bit like a mentor over the last couple of weeks .

Dan,

Glad you've seen the light!

o/t Jeez how old do i feel talking about chequered flag. When i was a nipper, my dad made me a steerling wheel for chequered flag, because we couldn't get on with the quickshot 1 joystick we had. There was 2 steering speeds, slow turn and fast turn. No analogue in those days!!! We also had a table of average speeds from Brands Hatch, so we could compare to real drivers............oh the good ol days.

Enough of the waffle!

Nice Post Dan, and your totally right. It "really" does make a difference.

chequered flag - loved it!

Glad you got used to the wheel - gutted you're getting faster!

enjoy it as long as the logitech pedals are still working
cause as soon as they dont youll have to spend a lot more for a decent setup than 65

Heh.. Funny. I actually went from a dual analog pad to a DFP just a week ago myself. I'm currently at the "gaaaaah, I'm even slower than before" stage, so I must admit I'm somewhat relieved to read this. Those PBs are going down, wheter they want to or not!

Quote from wien :

Heh.. Funny. I actually went from a dual analog pad to a DFP just a week ago myself. I'm currently at the "gaaaaah, I'm even slower than before" stage, so I must admit I'm somewhat relieved to read this. Those PBs are going down, wheter they want to or not!

Yep, been there only a matter of days ago, very dark place to be LOL, I didnt think it would come good, but it did, and I would imagine it would for you too

One thing I can now do successfully that improves my times no end is trail braking, could never do that with a pad.

Dan,

Yup i remember being in ure shoes a couple of months ago bout being slower...now u just keep getiting faster and faster. Glad to hear the frustration is now gone and ure back to the enjoyment.Good luck with the ESL!

Oh what the hell...that motivates me even more to get one too after how many years of keyboard! Sometimes I'm one second from the wr, does that mean I'll beat it with a wheel?

wheely well written post

Quote from Shotglass :

enjoy it as long as the logitech pedals are still working
cause as soon as they dont youll have to spend a lot more for a decent setup than 65

Nah, a little pliable putty and a roll of electrical tape and their better than new.

Heh, I still remember when I bought my wheel (for the SCGT, Sportscar GT, an ISI sim) and after playing the game with keyboard and then trying the wheel it was so strange to drive with a wheel. It just felt so totally odd. But when I got used to it I haven't played any racing games wihout wheel after that. Maybe I'll get my next enlightment when I switch to FFB wheel

Heh, 'bout time dan. Its funny because I hadn't even fired LFS up for more than a few minutes practically since the last season of ESL finished, but the other night I thought I'd give it a crack, so I found a nice full UFR/XFR server at Krautracing and joined in.

And what did I see, only 'N1 Danowat' leading the race to the end, and I confess I thought that either you'd improved a lot, or it was a slow night. Turned out it was the former though, so nice one.

I bought my first wheel back in '96-'97 I think. God, I'll remember the day forever. The wheel was a used Thrustmaster T2 that I got really cheap The feeling of actually having a wheel on your hands and pedals under your feet was so awesome after playing my entire life on keyboard.

Personally speaking, I see no point in playing a sim like LFS without a proper wheel and hardware. You might as well be playing whatever arcade car games there are, since you are missing all the feeling there is to it.

Quote from mrodgers :

Nah, a little pliable putty and a roll of electrical tape and their better than new.

i dunno ... somehow one of my dfps pedals doesnt go full range (mechanical electrical it does) at both ends ... havent cracked it open yet but i guess theres more to it than just a loose poti

Hahaha Colin, slow night at the XFR/UFR server , yeah, I did see you there, it was that race that was my swing point, after that race I went on and did 1:53 in the FXO at SO4 Rev.
I am already looking at the stuff from Frex for my DFP, the wheel adaptor is going to be first on my list, and then maybe the pedals.
I guess the reasons why it took my so long to get a wheel was two-fold.
firstly historical reasons, had used a pad for years, and thought it was fine, secondly, I got a wheel years and years ago for playing GT1 on the PS1, it was some "madcatz" thing and was appalling, pretty sure the steering resistance was done using a bungee cord, that tainted my opinion of wheels, but I can see now they have come a LONG way.
The best thing of all it has given me a new thirst for LFS, I was, and have been, jaded with it before, but now its a whole new world for me.

Dan,

Glad to hear your sorted and back on track

Was following your other thread about how terrible the FFB was and TBH was nearly turned off the idea of a wheel for ever

I've been using an xbox controller since the beggining with LFS, I've always known a wheel would be better, but hey I'm the king of procrastinators illepall

I do pretty well with the xbox controller but certainly can't keep up with some of my team mates :schwitzi.e. wgooden, modoff, aussie) but if I get a wheel

heh first I have to get a descent internet connetion thats supposed to happen tomorrow fingers crossed (been waiting a year living in the outback of Australia has some disadvantages ) and a wheel well maybe I can get one in April, with a good internet connection and your inspiring words I think I just might

Yep, its nowhere near as bad as I first thought, I will admit that, and while it is still not overly realistic (its probably about as realistic as it can be given the current tech), it does give you a great deal more feedback on what the car is doing, it really is all a matter of setting the thing up right.
I couldnt guarentee it, but I would imagine that people could be a good 1-2 seconds quicker by changing from pad/keyboard/mouse to a wheel.
The question that is ringing round my head now is, why did I wait this long

Dan,

Based on that assumption I should be equalling or bettering the WR on some car track combos then I'll settle for just a 0.5 - 1.0 sec improvement, with better consistency

What it would do though probably is make me more comfortable with the SS and GTR classes which I've hardly touched at this point.

For those who might think: "Oh he did it, he bought a wheel also and is going to say it here!" wrong

Glad for you , but can't convince me m8

Quote from GianniC :

For those who might think: "Oh he did it, he bought a wheel also and is going to say it here!" wrong

Glad for you , but can't convince me m8

Long live Keyboard Power

Quote from B2B@300 :

Long live Keyboard Power

Thàt's the spirit !! :eclipsee_

Quote from GianniC :

Thàt's the spirit !! :eclipsee_

wrong smily

nice one dan, it's surprising the number of people out there using pads/sticks etc. and being adament that "they've got more control thet way" or "you can't react quick enough with a wheel" blah blah blah. i even got told (by a bloody drag only racer!) that KB was what all the "pro draggers use on the demo servers".

We all know the truth, Wheel is the way to go!, although it can be a pain to get a good setup, it's worth the time/money invested, for the control/feel you gain.

BTW one extra thing to think about. If you can, sort a clutch pedal out, it's worth having for satisfaction alone, but the extra level of control you get is subtle but very handy (not to mention, more natural if you're used to having one there IRL) and fun