Quote from jarmenia :

I'll try and stop by but I've got a very busy weekend ahead. Are you guys around during the week at all?

Yeah but the time difference means it'll be in the afternoon for you. But there is always a few of us about any evening or weekend.

There is a lot said that a firm setup won't make a huge difference in the performance of the driver, now in cars like the LX6 and the RAC this is true, too an extent, however, with Single Seaters the aerodynamics of the car can cost even the best driver several seconds a lap, even around circuits as short as South City Sprint 2

I have actually been making setups for a while (and testing other peoples setups for them) and although I have only been dealing with DF and SingleSeaters most recently... (I've still not made a serious GTR setup) I find that perhaps the most important place to start is with the gears and aero setup of a WR set, for instance it can sometimes help to sacrifice top speed for a bit more corner traction, so if you're ever out friendly racing people always ask for a setup, and study it well.

Also, it has stated here many times, but it is possibly the most important thing about setups, you need to test them to destruction, drive as close as you can to the edge, see how the car reacts to it. Another thing, always have a different set for qualifying (or sprinting) from your standard race (endurance) setup. The last thing you need during a race is overheating tyres and loss of traction (especially on the back end).

Would any of you mind looking at the setup I've been testing for KY GP Long? If so PM me your email address and I'll send it. I'll also send an SPR of my replay so maybe you can tell me why I'm so much slower than the WR.

You could always just attach it here. You're likely to get more people to look at it that way.

ok, I attached my current setup and PB replay. Lap 5 is the fastest lap. Any and all comments are welcome.

had a quick look at the set and a drive in the car, is is what i noticed:

toe was very extreme that car needs very little toe, it made the car twitchy at the front and very understeery, becuase the rear could not change direction easily, and increased tyre wear alot.

the bump dampers should be less the than the rebound, and the ARB's where a little high

the car can use r2's at front and rear for long race's, and the chamber at least a whole degree too positive.


hope that helped, i might try and make a set later explaining the stages that i took.



your lines arn't bad, but the corner after the first split is not quite full throttle you need to slow down more on entry

hope that's useful

Quote from JasonL220 :

had a quick look at the set and a drive in the car, is is what i noticed:

toe was very extreme that car needs very little toe, it made the car twitchy at the front and very understeery, becuase the rear could not change direction easily, and increased tyre wear alot.

Strange this is exactly the opposite that I noticed. when i added more negative toe to the front last night (went from -2 to -4) that's when I started running laps in the 2:21.XX range.

Quote :

the bump dampers should be less the than the rebound, and the ARB's where a little high

Is this a general rule for all cars and tracks or just this car and this track?

Quote :

the car can use r2's at front and rear for long race's, and the chamber at least a whole degree too positive.

I had been running r2's at the front and back but the back tires were getting to hot and it was like driving on ice. Putting the r3's on the back solved that problem. What else could have been causing the overheating rear tires?

Quote :

hope that helped, i might try and make a set later explaining the stages that i took.

that would be helpful

Quote :

your lines arn't bad, but the corner after the first split is not quite full throttle you need to slow down more on entry

hope that's useful

are you saying the right hander after the esse or the right hander after you cross under the bridge?


Thanks for the feedback.

Quote from jarmenia :

Strange this is exactly the opposite that I noticed. when i added more negative toe to the front last night (went from -2 to -4) that's when I started running laps in the 2:21.XX range.

i mean, that the front toe is normally between -0.2 and 0. and the rear +0.2 and 0.0 for this car.

Quote from jarmenia :

Is this a general rule for all cars and tracks or just this car and this track?

for the dampers that is general rule for all car and tracks, if you use bob_smith's VHPA setup program and set the dampers to 50% critical and rebound to 100% critical and use that as a start, and try not to increase the rebound to much or lower the bump much.

the ARB is different for each car and slightly different for each track, all the set that i have seen for the FOX use setting about 10N/mm less on the arb

Quote from jarmenia :

I had been running r2's at the front and back but the back tires were getting to hot and it was like driving on ice. Putting the r3's on the back solved that problem. What else could have been causing the overheating rear tires?

i found that increasing the pressure on the rear's by about 50Kpa and r2's was alot better, i think the overheating was cuased by the large rear toe, cuase the tyres to drap along the ground abit instead of rolling

Quote from jarmenia :

that would be helpful

i'll post something in the next few days

Quote from jarmenia :

are you saying the right hander after the esse or the right hander after you cross under the bridge?

sorry was not very clear, the corner after the 3rd gear right hander


Thanks for the feedback.

Quote from JasonL220 :

i mean, that the front toe is normally between -0.2 and 0. and the rear +0.2 and 0.0 for this car.

Ok, I'll try lessing the toe tonight but like I said, I got much better turn in when I increased the front. Maybe moving the back and the front a little closer to 0 will help.

Quote :

for the dampers that is general rule for all car and tracks, if you use bob_smith's VHPA setup program and set the dampers to 50% critical and rebound to 100% critical and use that as a start, and try not to increase the rebound to much or lower the bump much.

I was trying to figure out how to turn the critical dampning on in the VHPA yesterday but couldn't figure it out.

Quote :

the ARB is different for each car and slightly different for each track, all the set that i have seen for the FOX use setting about 10N/mm less on the arb

so you think I should lower both ARBs by 10 N/mm?

Quote :

i found that increasing the pressure on the rear's by about 50Kpa and r2's was alot better, i think the overheating was cuased by the large rear toe, cuase the tyres to drap along the ground abit instead of rolling

When I lower the rear toe I'll throw the rs'2 back on and see if they are still over heating.

Quote :

sorry was not very clear, the corner after the 3rd gear right hander

Ok, I know what you are talking about. So I should enter the esses slower rather than letting the speed burn off during the first right hander?



Thanks again, this is great info.

Never mind the question about critical dampening. I read the manual for the VHPA again and saw there was no graph, just the numbers. That being said...


Is a good starting point to set the dampers to the critical dampening and the tweak from there?

yes, loose the speed before the corner, exit speed and a better line through the folowing corners is MUCH more important than entry.

ignore the ARB's for now i'll explain better in my small guide

Quote from jarmenia :

Never mind the question about critical dampening. I read the manual for the VHPA again and saw there was no graph, just the numbers.

Do you think it would be beneficial to have the damping graph overlaid on top of what critical damping would look like?

Quote from Bob Smith :

Do you think it would be beneficial to have the damping graph overlaid on top of what critical damping would look like?

It would be nice in this case because that's what the manual talks about here: http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/A ... #Bump_.26_Rebound_Damping

Heh, I wrote that manual too. That graph is showing partially damped oscillations against undamped oscillations, both of which are very different to a critically damped spring.

Jarmenia, just watching th replay now, you are missing a few apexs, and taking them too early in many cases. Also it is VERY important that you enter corners slower and power (ideally full throttle, but that all depends on ths corner and stability) out of them in as straight a line as possible, in the FOX the apex should be the tightest part of the corner (in a steady curve this being the exact middle point.

Have you DL'd a WR replay at all for this track? That should be a good guide to apexes..

Quote from Kamrock :

Jarmenia, just watching th replay now, you are missing a few apexs, and taking them too early in many cases. Also it is VERY important that you enter corners slower and power (ideally full throttle, but that all depends on ths corner and stability) out of them in as straight a line as possible, in the FOX the apex should be the tightest part of the corner (in a steady curve this being the exact middle point.

Have you DL'd a WR replay at all for this track? That should be a good guide to apexes..

Yes I have DLed the WR and when I put my line and his line on the track map in LRA or Analyze for speed my line apexes at the same spot his does on most of the turns. Unless I'm completely misreading what these things are telling me. Which isn't totally unlikely.

Quote from jarmenia :

Yes I have DLed the WR and when I put my line and his line on the track map in LRA or Analyze for speed my line apexes at the same spot his does on most of the turns. Unless I'm completely misreading what these things are telling me. Which isn't totally unlikely.

Ok, it is possible (I've not driven the FOX for a long time) that I am in the wrong if you are apexing where the WR does.

I've had a quick fiddle with the setup and may I ask why there were such extreme values in the steering geometry? (BTW I setup by feel, I've not yet had the honour to download and play with Bobs tools, Having setup the same way for a good few years, I dunno, never tried it, although I'm thinking I might) I've lowered these settings and found more grip (and more rolling resistance unfortunately) but this has allowed to drop the DF and the increase the tyre pressures to make up for it. +7 toe twinned with 12 psi pressures on the rear is the sole reason for those tyres overheating... I do like the low settings in the LSD you haven't been tempted to increase the power lock too far and remove oversteer completely from the vehicle.

The result is that the car is less "twitchy" but quicker through the longer more gentle corners (which KY3 is made up of) Also, as you cut those kerbs quite violently the Anti-Roll and Damper settings seem a touch high, a slight clip of the kerb can launch the car and upset the balance (causing spins under power).

If you want to give this a try and see if you prefer the way it feels, your setup just feels too eager is some places and a little unresponsive in other places....

EDIT: This current setup has the same DF settings as you originally had, even though I did originally have both set 2degs shallower

Quote from Kamrock :

Ok, it is possible (I've not driven the FOX for a long time) that I am in the wrong if you are apexing where the WR does.

I've had a quick fiddle with the setup and may I ask why there were such extreme values in the steering geometry? (BTW I setup by feel, I've not yet had the honour to download and play with Bobs tools, Having setup the same way for a good few years, I dunno, never tried it, although I'm thinking I might) I've lowered these settings and found more grip (and more rolling resistance unfortunately) but this has allowed to drop the DF and the increase the tyre pressures to make up for it. +7 toe twinned with 12 psi pressures on the rear is the sole reason for those tyres overheating... I do like the low settings in the LSD you haven't been tempted to increase the power lock too far and remove oversteer completely from the vehicle.

The result is that the car is less "twitchy" but quicker through the longer more gentle corners (which KY3 is made up of) Also, as you cut those kerbs quite violently the Anti-Roll and Damper settings seem a touch high, a slight clip of the kerb can launch the car and upset the balance (causing spins under power).

If you want to give this a try and see if you prefer the way it feels, your setup just feels too eager is some places and a little unresponsive in other places....

EDIT: This current setup has the same DF settings as you originally had, even though I did originally have both set 2degs shallower

Based on what Jason was telling me earlier in the day, I came home and set the front toe to -.2 and the rear toe to 0 and the car handled much better. I started with the default setup which had .5 toe in the rear so when I made the car more twichy I thought adding a little more rear toe would help which it did but caused other problems I've since put the R2 back on the rear and raised the pressure slightly. I still need to test that change out.

Since I've been home I also set all the dampers back to the critical dampening and have tweaked them slightly to reduce the tightness in the car but overall the car feels much better (still a little tight though). I'll take a look at your setup in a bit.

Thanks for the help. I can really see an improvement in both the way the car handles and my driving thanks to you guys.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

The inside edge of the tyre should be 10-15 degrees above the optimum temp, middle should be 5-10 degrees above optimum and outside edge I find works best when about 5 degrees below optimum.

would this apply to just this car , or all?

If all cars ,just slicks or road tyres as well?

Quote from Turbo Dad :

would this apply to just this car , or all?

To none really... The only reason why it works is because LfS is way more camber-sensitive than temperature-sensitive...

Its a general guideline and testing is the only way to find the correct camber angles for maximum grip but yeah, I find this kind of heat distribution works pretty well on slicks, grooved and road tyres.